|
|
| Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit (1405961) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[1 2] |
||
|
Page 2 of 2 |
||
|
| (1406199) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 13:54:33 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Wed Aug 24 11:10:11 2016. The people on GGW are taking WMATA's word. Not really their fault.That's why Oren put quotes around "know it alls". If WMATA is the only source used to come a conclusion then your conclusion is likely to agree with theirs. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406204) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 14:08:50 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Wed Aug 24 11:11:36 2016. They're currently achieving 26. Restricting the trains' acceleration and top speeds ain't gonna help you do better than 26.They are not currently achieving 26 trains per hour. Trains routinely crap the bed out on the railroad because they don't have enough rolling stock to rotate cars through the shops to preform routine preventive maintenance. See Daily Service Report for 08 19 2016. |
|
|
| (1406227) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Wed Aug 24 16:54:42 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 14:08:50 2016. My point stands. They say they're currently capable of sustaining 26 tph. If you slow down the trains, that works against the goal of increasing throughput. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1406265) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 24 23:23:01 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 00:20:18 2016. Outside of a few days in April if things line up right with the cherry blossoms, weekend ridership isn't comparable to weekday ridership. It would be unlikely that the test results would have much validity. |
|
|
| (1406266) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 24 23:23:58 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Wed Aug 24 11:10:11 2016. Most of the people on GGW haven't been around DC long enough to know how things were done before, nor do they care very often. |
|
|
| (1406267) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 24 23:24:27 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 00:28:50 2016. Not old enough or just not around long enough? I think you know about how old I am and I don't think you mean to put me in their category. |
|
|
| (1406278) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 08:44:48 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 24 23:24:27 2016. Not old enough or just not around long enough? I think you know about how old I am and I don't think you mean to put me in their category.Not in the least. Your mind is far more open on such matters the theirs. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406279) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 08:56:52 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 24 23:23:01 2016. Outside of a few days in April if things line up right with the cherry blossoms, weekend ridership isn't comparable to weekday ridership. It would be unlikely that the test results would have much validity.The reason for running the test on a weekend day is to prove that it can be done regardless of what the boarding volume is. I get the impression from the propaganda coming out of WMATA that it can't be done at all. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406295) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 11:16:19 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 08:56:52 2016. I've had discussions with another railfan about various ways WMATA could improve throughput. I told him about this thread but IDK if he has read it or if he will comment if he does. We've bounced around several strategies for improving Metrorail's reliability and OTP, as have the various blue ribbon panels they've assembled over the years. So far, nothing seems to have been done aside from reversing the attempt to run the Red Line every 2.5 minutes at rush hour a few years ago. |
|
|
| (1406296) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 11:17:18 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 08:44:48 2016. I also believe in respecting institutional and regional history. They like upending it because they supposedly know best. |
|
|
| (1406309) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 14:43:04 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 11:17:18 2016. I also believe in respecting institutional and regional history. They like upending it because they supposedly know best.Rush Limbaugh routinely points out the same in a somewhat different way. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406311) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Thu Aug 25 14:53:36 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 08:56:52 2016. The reason for running the test on a weekend day is to prove that it can be done regardless of what the boarding volume is.But boarding volumes have a direct impact on whether or not it can be done in practice, not just theoretically. |
|
|
| (1406313) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Aug 25 15:33:40 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 23 23:37:39 2016. Why don't they platform shorter trains toward the center of the platform like PATCO? |
|
|
| (1406315) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 15:41:20 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Aug 25 15:33:40 2016. They used to, but after the Fort Totten crash and due to incidents of TOs not remembering if they had 6 or 8 cars and stopping short when they had the latter, they decided to have trains pull all the way up. They disabled the safety system that prevents off platform door openings in 2008 or so due to electromagnetic interference from power upgrades to support 8 car train operations, to my knowledge that isn't fixed either. When ATO resumes and they get that safety system back up, I think SOP should be that only trains being driven manually should pull all the way up. |
|
|
| (1406316) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 15:42:10 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 14:43:04 2016. I'm not usually compared to Rush Limbaugh FWIW |
|
|
| (1406328) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 25 17:05:02 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 15:41:20 2016. speaks volumes about the quality of T/Os. |
|
|
| (1406331) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Thu Aug 25 17:21:59 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 25 17:05:02 2016. IAWTP. From what I was told, unlike the NYCTA, WMATA T/O and B/O positions are the same title and a new hire has to start on the buses and wait until he/she accrues sufficient seniority to request qualification as a T/O and bid in on a metro run. I believe that Baltimore and LA have a similar system so there is really no separate railroad training for T/Os or even a qualifying exam like we have here in NY. |
|
|
| (1406333) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 17:49:12 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 25 17:05:02 2016. I'd like to point out that WMATA's cutting that door safety system would be the equivalent of the MTA in NYC taking down all the zebra boards and cutting all the door enablers tonight and then expecting the C/Rs and T/Os in NYC to not screw up a single time. Let's see how defensive the MTA staff here on this board gets in that hypothetical scenario. |
|
|
| (1406334) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 17:50:03 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by randyo on Thu Aug 25 17:21:59 2016. What do you mean by no separate railroad training? You don't go from the bus to operating a train in revenue service overnight. |
|
|
| (1406339) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Aug 25 19:16:37 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Thu Aug 25 14:53:36 2016. No one is disagreeing with you, but considering addressing the boarding dwell time would cost WMATA money (in the form of more cars for 8 car trains to spread out the passenger load), they should first check if it's even possible on a weekend before outlaying cash, no? |
|
|
| (1406342) | |
Washington Metro track gauge Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 25 19:26:27 2016, in response to The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 10:27:22 2016. I am mentioning this because the Metro is being discussed. Why is the Metro's track gauge 4 feet 8 1/4 inches instead of standard gauge, which is 4 feet 8 1/2 inches? |
|
|
| (1406343) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 25 19:30:19 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 17:49:12 2016. Apparently you misunderstood my point. I was trying to express contempt for systems where T/Os can't remember how long their train is and there is no mnemonic in the cab. I never denied the value of zebra boards, but I also am old enough to remember train length markers affixed to platforms on CTA, NYCTA, the IC Electric at each station.I might point out that I was on an IRT train NB from Flatbush Ave one weekday morning when the C/R opened on the wrong side. Happily this was maybe 11:30 AM so few passengers, no injuries. |
|
|
| (1406353) | |
Re: Washington Metro track gauge Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 22:37:49 2016, in response to Washington Metro track gauge Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 25 19:26:27 2016. I am mentioning this because the Metro is being discussed. Why is the Metro's track gauge 4 feet 8 1/4 inches instead of standard gauge, which is 4 feet 8 1/2 inches?The wheel sets on the revenue rolling are gauged to 4' 8 1/2". It was done to increase stability and produce a smother ride. Back in the day it did just that. With the less then perfect track that is found throughout most of the railroad today it's nearly impossible to perceive difference. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406355) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 23:06:02 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 25 19:30:19 2016. I was trying to express contempt for systems where T/Os can't remember how long their train is and there is no mnemonic in the cab.Actually there is a display that tell the operator how many car are in the train. The single digit display to the left of the key pad under train identity.  In the cabs of 7k car it little bit more obvious.  John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406358) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 26 00:22:52 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Aug 25 23:06:02 2016. First, thank you for the correction. IMHO that supports my disdain for personnel who don't platform at the right location. Given OPTO, it seems to me WMATA might consider "zebrz ##". |
|
|
| (1406374) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 26 08:24:53 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 15:41:20 2016. Why don't they fix the personnel issues instead of degrading service? |
|
|
| (1406375) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 08:34:08 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 26 00:22:52 2016. First, thank you for the correction. IMHO that supports my disdain for personnel who don't platform at the right location. Given OPTO, it seems to me WMATA might consider "zebrz ##".Instead of applying band aides, direct all effort towards restoring reliable automatic operation. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406376) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Fri Aug 26 08:40:12 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 15:42:10 2016. LOL! |
|
|
| (1406377) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Fri Aug 26 08:42:03 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Aug 25 19:16:37 2016. The danger, of course, is that they would test it out on a weekend, find that it was possible (I'm having trouble imagining why it would prove not to be possible on the weekend), lay out cash, and then find it wasn't possible in rush hours after all.The weekend test only proves it's possible on the weekend. |
|
|
| (1406388) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 10:21:20 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 26 08:24:53 2016. Why don't they fix the personnel issues instead of degrading service?WMATA like much of Washington DC is a Logic Free Zone. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406399) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 13:51:02 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Fri Aug 26 08:42:03 2016. The danger, of course, is that they would test it out on a weekend, find that it was possible (I'm having trouble imagining why it would prove not to be possible on the weekend), lay out cash, and then find it wasn't possible in rush hours after all.You seem to be forgetting the point I made in my opening post to this thread. WMATA has an insufficient fleet size to fill an all 8 car train time sheet at the alleged 26 train per hour limitation. Based on the 7k car procurement and 1, 4 and 5k car scrapping schema WMATA will still be unable to fill that all 8 car train time sheet when all is said and done. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406400) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 26 14:10:10 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 25 17:50:03 2016. True, but in the NYCTA set up, a person wishing to take the promotion test to T/O can receive preparatory instruction to assist in taking the exam in addition to the actual training for the job once the exam has been passed and the employee appointed to the position. |
|
|
| (1406407) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Fri Aug 26 14:49:35 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 13:51:02 2016. You're actually arguing against running this test at all, as the results would be useless if the intended service cannot actually be run. |
|
|
| (1406412) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 26 15:09:03 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 13:51:02 2016. The 1k cat retirement is understandable...The 4 and 5k cars,should be retained until sufficient replacement equipment is required. Might take some time considering how they are being nickeled and dimed for funding.. A healthy rebuilding program could help...strip and strengthen car bodies to become more crashworthy... Just a thought... |
|
|
| (1406429) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Aug 26 17:18:05 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 26 15:09:03 2016. You should send a letter certified mail to WMATA and then wait for a response to your sage advice. |
|
|
| (1406448) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 26 19:58:40 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Aug 26 17:18:05 2016. Thats a thought...but considering the source,it most likely took hours on top of hours to conceive.Must be the anal retention,ultra tight ass brain fart syndrome you suffer from. |
|
|
| (1406484) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 22:00:12 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Fri Aug 26 14:49:35 2016. You're actually arguing against running this test at all, as the results would be useless if the intended service cannot actually be run.The service could be run if WMATA actually had the fucking rolling stock !! John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406496) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 23:25:19 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 26 15:09:03 2016. The 4 and 5k cars,should be retained until sufficient replacement equipment is required.The 4 and 5k cars are being retired because some of the member of the board were convinced that monies would be better spent replacing them with new. They also got cold feet on what it would cost to increase the fleet size to support 100 percent 8 car train peak service. The original plan was to do a mid life rehabilitation of 4k cars to make them compatible with the 7k cars. The origenal procurement schema for the 7k cars was as follows:
After the Fort Totten wreck it became:
After the dicision was made to replace 4 and 5k cars with new it became:
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
| (1406546) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 10:28:10 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Fri Aug 26 08:42:03 2016. Ah, because the try nothing approach is so much more likely to solve WMATA's problems... |
|
|
| (1406759) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 29 15:22:38 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Aug 26 22:00:12 2016. BUT IT DOESN'T. |
|
|
| (1406760) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 29 15:23:11 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 10:28:10 2016. And the try-something-that-can't-be-put-into-practice approach will? |
|
|
| (1406802) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Aug 29 21:57:21 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 13:48:30 2016. I've been suggesting copying the R-46 for as long as I've been here. The current "suburbanite seating" is a relic from 50 years ago that simply is no longer viable for the present day's ridership. The excuse I got for years was compatibility with the existing fleet was absolutely mandatory and immutable. When the 7000 series was announced (which cannot MU with older cars), I again urged they implement a 4-door/R-46 style seating arrangement. Maybe Wiedefeld will push this for the next series of cars.The reason I am vehemently opposed to bench seating as an alternative on WMATA is how many families or other groups riding together we get. If they were spread along a bench, especially with very young children and/or strollers or luggage, it would create a fustercluck of epic proportion with people tripping all over the place. At least with the mixed seating you create little nooks that a group or luggage-bearers can be out of the principal walkway. This is urgently needed on all of our lines as they connect to the airports and Union Station/New Carrollton. |
|
|
| (1406812) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 30 00:02:59 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 29 15:23:11 2016. And the try-something-that-can't-be-put-into-practice approach will?Yes. It will aid in convincing the folks at the top food chain to get off asses and twist some arms to get the money needed to procure the fucking rolling !! The reason why WMATA's goal of increasing the fleet size to accommodate 100 percent 8 car train peak service is not going to happen is because selected members of the board found the price to high. The folks using the railroad today are paying a different kind of price. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406851) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 30 11:36:33 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Aug 29 21:57:21 2016. I was also hoping they'd have sense enough to put four doors on each side of the 7000s. Nope. |
|
|
| (1406852) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 30 11:38:32 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 30 00:02:59 2016. I don't think a test like this would be effective in changing the minds of those board members. If they think it's too expensive to procure the necessary rolling stock, this test isn't going to suddenly make them think it's not too expensive. |
|
|
[1 2] |
||
|
Page 2 of 2 |
||
