|
|
| The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit (1405961) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
|
| (1405961) | |
The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 10:27:22 2016 Explained. |
|
|
| (1405968) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 22 11:31:00 2016, in response to The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 10:27:22 2016. Explained or excused? |
|
|
| (1405972) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 13:00:27 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 22 11:31:00 2016. Question already answered. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1405980) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 22 13:33:09 2016, in response to The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 10:27:22 2016. Sad. With all of the whiz bang computers, they can't match what both CTA and the TA were capable ofin the 50s. DC needs cars w/4 door sets, and the pax need to learn to hustle. |
|
|
| (1405983) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 13:48:30 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 22 13:33:09 2016. DC needs cars w/4 door sets,I've been saying that ever since I lived there in the early 1990s. I even wrote to Dr. Gridlock, offering that as a theory, and was rebuffed, IIRC. and the pax need to learn to hustle. Nowadays I don't think Washingtonians are any slower than New Yorkers. New Yorkers used to be much faster; not anymore. Let me put it this way: New Yorkers used to be able to keep up with me, and now I find myself wanting to push people out of my way everywhere in New York all the time. |
|
|
| (1405987) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 22 14:05:42 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 13:48:30 2016. You may be correct. I only visit NYC irregularly. When I lived there, I was 50 years younger, so I was faster than now.As to door, BART is changing from 2 to 3 with the new fleet--which will be late in arriving (skidoo). |
|
|
| (1406003) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Aug 22 16:01:47 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 13:48:30 2016. New Yorkers used to be much faster; not anymore. Let me put it this way: New Yorkers used to be able to keep up with me, and now I find myself wanting to push people out of my way everywhere in New York all the time.Maybe chatting on a cell phone or immersed in any other electronic device could be slowing them down. Bill Newkirk |
|
|
| (1406007) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 17:19:43 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Aug 22 16:01:47 2016. I think that's part of it, yeah. |
|
|
| (1406009) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 22 17:39:23 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Aug 22 16:01:47 2016. Not only that but there are a lot more non native New Yorkers from other parts of the country with a slower pace now living here and they are not as used to moving at the warp speed of New Yorkers who were born into the fast paced lifestyle. |
|
|
| (1406012) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 22 17:43:42 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 22 13:33:09 2016. Or even PATH. They once ran 40 TPH to WTC (from 2 branches). |
|
|
| (1406019) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by chud1 on Mon Aug 22 18:36:45 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 22 17:39:23 2016. IAWTP as a native New Yorker.chud1. :)..... |
|
|
| (1406024) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Mon Aug 22 19:26:22 2016, in response to The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 10:27:22 2016. That seems like a pretty straightforward choice to make. They're currently choosing to play it safe and have a large margin between successive trains. But that's killing their capacity. Surely they should consider a reduction to the operating margin (this time not modifying the dwell time) to enable a greater capacity while accepting the possibility that a greater number of trains will run late. Unfortunately management tends to prefer performance metrics that can be easily digested. On time performance is key among these and many systems will try to improve OTP even if it results in no real improvement in service. It's easy to say "we had 90% of our trains on time this quarter!" and a lot harder to point to an increase in seats through a given station per hour at the same time OTP suffers.Of course before they can choose to reduce the operating margin and increase the number of trains per hour they'd have to have the cars to run those trains. Not only would they need more cars, but their OTP would suffer the least if they had trains standing by to make trips as required from terminal points so latenesses don't cascade across the system. Unfortunately I don't believe WMATA is anywhere near that point. |
|
|
| (1406036) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Aug 22 22:07:55 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 13:48:30 2016. I've been saying that ever since I lived there in the early 1990s. I even wrote to Dr. Gridlock, offering that as a theory, and was rebuffed, IIRC.The board submitted that idea to the staff when the specification were being drawn up for the 5K cars. The staff shot that idea down because the design engineers said the 4th door would require structural modification that would make the cars to heavy. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406039) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 22 22:13:49 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Aug 22 22:07:55 2016. idiots. |
|
|
| (1406041) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 22:52:22 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 22 22:13:49 2016. Agreed. The current arrangement increases dwell times and also encourages passengers on the train to cluster near the doors (if you don't, when you reach your station you'll be so far from the doors that it may be difficult to exit). |
|
|
| (1406042) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 22:57:44 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WillD on Mon Aug 22 19:26:22 2016. I agree with most of what you say, but the current parameters reflect WMATA's assessment of what they can sustain over the course of an entire rush hour. Assuming they're right, and they know more about their operations than you or I do, any capacity increases would only be theoretical and actual throughput would not be increased even if they scheduled on tighter headways.Your point about performance metrics is well taken, but I'm not sure it's the root of the problem here. Your point about car availability is also on point. |
|
|
| (1406045) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Aug 22 23:45:39 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WillD on Mon Aug 22 19:26:22 2016. Change the metric to how long people have to wait for a train, and how full the cars are. It doesn't matter if a train is 5 minutes late if *all* trains are equally 5 minutes late, and a passenger who shows up at an arbitrary station isn't waiting any more than he would have were the trains on time... |
|
|
| (1406046) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:15:26 2016, in response to The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 10:27:22 2016. WMATA issues with train through put boils down to two simple facts.Fleet size and traction power. I have been pounding for more then 20 years the fact that WMATA has had rolling stock shortage sense service was extended from National Airport to Huntington on 12 17 1984. For roughly the same amount of time I have stated that the designed specification of the signaling and train control system provides for a through put of 40 train per hour. I have provided this document as Exhibit A of confirmation of that fact. WMATA built out the railroad at a pace greater then the pace that rolling stock was being procured. WMATA's limited fleet size limits the number of revenue ready cars they can make available to fill a time sheet on any given day. The other one is the fact that every rolling stock procurement after the 1k cars was heavier and more power hungry resulting in the over taxing of the traction power distribution system. WMATA addressed that issue in the late 1980s by reducing the top speeds and rates of acceleration, followed by a program to upgrade the kilowatt output of trunk segment traction power substations. That program has yet to be completed. The above combined with the practices related to manual operation hold them back to the 26 train per hour capacity they are allegedly to be limited to. Back in the day before the rolling stock shortage became an issue WMATA routinely operated trains 30 trains per hour. I think the folks at WMATA have collectively forgotten what is need to provide 30 to 40 trains per hour service. I happen to believe that if the fleet were of sufficient size more trains per hour could be run. The number of passengers waiting on platforms to board would reduced and the number of passengers discharging from trains would be reduced along with dwell time because loads would spread among the greater number of trains. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406049) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:44:31 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 22:52:22 2016. The current arrangement increases dwell times and also encourages passengers on the train to cluster near the doors (if you don't, when you reach your station you'll be so far from the doors that it may be difficult to exit).The only thing increasing dwell times is the lack of rolling stock. Put more trains out on the railroad and you will have fewer standing passenger aboard the trains. Few standing passengers equals fewer passenger discharging the trains. More trains out on the railroad also equals fewer passenger waiting on platforms to board the trains. Increasing the number of trains is equal to putting 8.5 lbs of sand into 36 10 lb bags instead of 10 lbs of sand into 24 10 lb bags. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406050) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:48:55 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 22:57:44 2016. I agree with most of what you say, but the current parameters reflect WMATA's assessment of what they can sustain over the course of an entire rush hour. Assuming they're right, and they know more about their operations than you or I do, any capacity increases would only be theoretical and actual throughput would not be increased even if they scheduled on tighter headways.They can't scheduled on tighter headways because the don't have the rolling stock. That is the BIGGEST limiting factor. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406052) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Aug 23 01:41:20 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:15:26 2016. Perhaps restoring 40TPH operation would be a cheaper endeavor than the separate blue line plan? I envision that once the Silver Line is completed, the Virginia side will be a lot more crowded than the current Orange/Silver can handle... |
|
|
| (1406066) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Aug 23 08:38:56 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 22 17:39:23 2016. Not only that but there are a lot more non native New Yorkers from other parts of the country with a slower pace now living here and they are not as used to moving at the warp speed of New Yorkers who were born into the fast paced lifestyle.I agree with that. Bill Newkirk |
|
|
| (1406067) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 08:48:10 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Aug 23 01:41:20 2016. Perhaps restoring 40TPH operation would be a cheaper endeavor than the separate blue line plan?Evey time the discussion comes up in various forums about building the M Street subway to increase capacity. That is the option that I suggest should be achieved first. I envision that once the Silver Line is completed, the Virginia side will be a lot more crowded than the current Orange/Silver can handle... I envision a plurality of the Silver line boardings west Arlington County never crossing the Potomac River and a significant percentage traveling no further east then McLean. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406077) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 10:12:19 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:44:31 2016. The only thing increasing dwell times is the lack of rolling stock. Put more trains out on the railroad and you will have fewer standing passenger aboard the trains. Few standing passengers equals fewer passenger discharging the trains. More trains out on the railroad also equals fewer passenger waiting on platforms to board the trains.I don't really agree with that. I don't think that more trains (which, again, isn't really an option for most of the railroad anyway) would help the situation that much. The insufficient door capacity in each car is a much bigger factor, IMO. Unloading from a WMATA car is just so slow, regardless. |
|
|
| (1406078) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 10:19:36 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:15:26 2016. I quote from the post I linked to:This limit was put to the test in 2000 where, in response to the “Orange Crush”, Metro scheduled 29 trains per hour (19 Orange, 10 Blue) through the Rosslyn portal. However the aggressive 29 trains per hour (125 second headways) schedule was rarely achieved even with a mix of shorter 4- and 6-car trains, which tend to favor close headway operation. This was primarily due to tight operating margins and unattainable dwell times, scheduled at 12 seconds outside, and 19-23 seconds inside the core (far lower than the study’s recommended 40 seconds). What's your analysis of this, John? What I'm thinking is that if they were using a mix of 4- and 6-car trains for this, assuming this was rush hour operation, 4-car trains are just a bad idea because they're not going to be able to absorb the crowds, and people trying to board at the ends of the train (in 2000, WMATA trains would have still been stopping at the proper platform positions) would lengthen dwell times. Actually, this tends to support your contention about rolling stock shortages being a, if not the, major reason why WMATA can't achieve tighter headways. I do still believe, though, that the idiotic door arrangement extends dwell times significantly. |
|
|
| (1406079) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 10:27:52 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 10:12:19 2016. I don't really agree with that. I don't think that more trains (which, again, isn't really an option for most of the railroad anyway) would help the situation that much.We are not talking about most railroads we are talking about WMATA. The signaling and train control system provides for a through put of 40 train per hour. The insufficient door capacity in each car is a much bigger factor, IMO. Unloading from a WMATA car is just so slow, regardless. Discharging and boarding 12 passengers through a door take less time then discharging and boarding 20 passengers through the same door. More trains will create the conditions to discharge and board 12 passengers through a door. One of the thing preventing WMATA from doing that is rolling stock in sufficient quantities. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406081) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 10:42:29 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 10:19:36 2016. This limit was put to the test in 2000 where, in response to the “Orange Crush”, Metro scheduled 29 trains per hour (19 Orange, 10 Blue) through the Rosslyn portal. However the aggressive 29 trains per hour (125 second headways) schedule was rarely achieved even with a mix of shorter 4- and 6-car trains, which tend to favor close headway operation. This was primarily due to tight operating margins and unattainable dwell times, scheduled at 12 seconds outside, and 19-23 seconds inside the core (far lower than the study’s recommended 40 seconds).What's your analysis of this, John? Redeploy rolling stock from the Green Red and Yellow lines to allow the running of 100 percent 8 car trains and run the test again. Me thinks they will have no trouble reducing the dwell times needed to discharge and board trains. They may not reach the the goal of 12 seconds outside, and 19-23 seconds inside the core but they will be a hell of a lot closer to what is being experienced today. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406083) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Aug 23 11:16:41 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:48:55 2016. For every "did not operate" below, read "we didn't have any working trains":http://www.wmata.com/rail/service_reports/viewPage_update.cfm?ReportID=3669 5:28 a.m. A Franconia-Springfield-bound Blue Line train at Van Dorn Street was delayed 5 minutes due to a door problem. 5:28 a.m. A Franconia-Springfield-bound Blue Line train at Van Dorn Street was delayed 5 minutes due to a door problem. 5:38 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Largo Town Center did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:04 a.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Blue Line train at King St-Old Town did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:18 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Largo Town Center did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:28 a.m. A Vienna-bound Orange Line train at New Carrollton did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:34 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at McPherson Square was offloaded due to a brake problem. Passengers experienced an 8-minute delay. 6:39 a.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 6:41 a.m. A New Carrollton-bound Orange Line train at Vienna did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:51 a.m. A Shady Grove-bound Red Line train at Twinbrook was offloaded and turned back for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. Passengers experienced a 6-minute delay. 6:51 a.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 6:53 a.m. A New Carrollton-bound Orange Line train at Vienna did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:55 a.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Twinbrook was offloaded and turned back for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. Passengers experienced a 6-minute delay. 6:58 a.m. A Vienna-bound Orange Line train at New Carrollton did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:58 a.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Farragut North was offloaded and turned back for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. Passengers experienced a 9-minute delay. 7:25 a.m. A Greenbelt-bound Green Line train at Branch Avenue did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 7:29 a.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Suitland was expressed for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. 7:29 a.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Blue Line train at King St-Old Town did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 7:49 a.m. A New Carrollton-bound Orange Line train at Vienna did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 7:56 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Largo Town Center did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 7:57 a.m. A Greenbelt-bound Green Line train at Branch Avenue did not operate, resulting in a 4-minute gap in service. 9:36 a.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Blue Line train at Franconia-Springfield was delayed 5 minutes due to an operational problem. 1:21 p.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Grosvenor-Strathmore was delayed 9 minutes due to a brake problem. 1:21 p.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Grosvenor-Strathmore was delayed 9 minutes due to a brake problem. 3:11 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:21 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:33 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:40 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:47 p.m. A Mt. Vernon Square-bound Yellow Line train at Huntington did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:51 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:59 p.m. A Mt. Vernon Square-bound Yellow Line train at Huntington did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:04 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:16 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:39 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:41 p.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Stadium-Armory was offloaded due to a brake problem. Passengers experienced an 8-minute delay. 4:46 p.m. A Silver Spring-bound Red Line train at Metro Center was offloaded due to an equipment problem. Passengers experienced a 4-minute delay. 4:52 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 5:03 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 5:10 p.m. A Mt. Vernon Square-bound Yellow Line train at Gallery Pl-Chinatown was offloaded due to an equipment problem. Passengers experienced a 6-minute delay. 11:10 p.m. A Franconia-Springfield-bound Blue Line train at Eastern Market was delayed 18 minutes due to police activity. |
|
|
| (1406087) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Aug 23 12:20:57 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 22 17:39:23 2016. non native New Yorkers from other parts of the country with a slower paceYes, since as we all know, the Italian immigrants, Irish labourers, Puerto Rican farmers, and black sharecroppers that came to New York in previous generations were all from face paced communities back home. |
|
|
| (1406095) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 23 13:40:32 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Aug 23 12:20:57 2016. However, the immigrants from slower paced countries knew that they had to keep up for the sake of their very survival unlike the educated fools who come from other parts of the US and think they are too good to have to keep up with fast pace NewYorkers. |
|
|
| (1406097) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 13:47:17 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Aug 23 11:16:41 2016. Thank you for proving the point I have been making.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406100) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Aug 23 14:02:28 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 13:48:30 2016. Perhaps, thinking out of the box is needed. A swap meet!How about a lend/lease between NYTA and Warshington, send 40 R/68/68a's for a trial on one branch, and note any change. Of course, an equal number of cars will come to NY for a trial on the "A" or "E" or "F" lines. |
|
|
| (1406103) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 23 14:04:19 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 23 13:40:32 2016. +1 |
|
|
| (1406104) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Aug 23 14:05:43 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 00:48:55 2016. For every "did not operate" below, read "we didn't have any working trains":http://www.wmata.com/rail/service_reports/viewPage_update.cfm?ReportID=3669 5:28 a.m. A Franconia-Springfield-bound Blue Line train at Van Dorn Street was delayed 5 minutes due to a door problem. 5:28 a.m. A Franconia-Springfield-bound Blue Line train at Van Dorn Street was delayed 5 minutes due to a door problem. 5:38 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Largo Town Center did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:04 a.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Blue Line train at King St-Old Town did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:18 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Largo Town Center did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:28 a.m. A Vienna-bound Orange Line train at New Carrollton did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:34 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at McPherson Square was offloaded due to a brake problem. Passengers experienced an 8-minute delay. 6:39 a.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 6:41 a.m. A New Carrollton-bound Orange Line train at Vienna did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:51 a.m. A Shady Grove-bound Red Line train at Twinbrook was offloaded and turned back for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. Passengers experienced a 6-minute delay. 6:51 a.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 6:53 a.m. A New Carrollton-bound Orange Line train at Vienna did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:55 a.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Twinbrook was offloaded and turned back for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. Passengers experienced a 6-minute delay. 6:58 a.m. A Vienna-bound Orange Line train at New Carrollton did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 6:58 a.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Farragut North was offloaded and turned back for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. Passengers experienced a 9-minute delay. 7:25 a.m. A Greenbelt-bound Green Line train at Branch Avenue did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 7:29 a.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Suitland was expressed for schedule adherence/improved train spacing. 7:29 a.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Blue Line train at King St-Old Town did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 7:49 a.m. A New Carrollton-bound Orange Line train at Vienna did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 7:56 a.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Largo Town Center did not operate, resulting in an 8-minute gap in service. 7:57 a.m. A Greenbelt-bound Green Line train at Branch Avenue did not operate, resulting in a 4-minute gap in service. 9:36 a.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Blue Line train at Franconia-Springfield was delayed 5 minutes due to an operational problem. 1:21 p.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Grosvenor-Strathmore was delayed 9 minutes due to a brake problem. 1:21 p.m. A Grosvenor-bound Red Line train at Grosvenor-Strathmore was delayed 9 minutes due to a brake problem. 3:11 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:21 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:33 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:40 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:47 p.m. A Mt. Vernon Square-bound Yellow Line train at Huntington did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:51 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 3:59 p.m. A Mt. Vernon Square-bound Yellow Line train at Huntington did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:04 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:16 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:39 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 4:41 p.m. A Wiehle-Reston East-bound Silver Line train at Stadium-Armory was offloaded due to a brake problem. Passengers experienced an 8-minute delay. 4:46 p.m. A Silver Spring-bound Red Line train at Metro Center was offloaded due to an equipment problem. Passengers experienced a 4-minute delay. 4:52 p.m. A Largo Town Center-bound Silver Line train at Wiehle-Reston East did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 5:03 p.m. A Branch Avenue-bound Green Line train at Greenbelt did not operate, resulting in a 6-minute gap in service. 5:10 p.m. A Mt. Vernon Square-bound Yellow Line train at Gallery Pl-Chinatown was offloaded due to an equipment problem. Passengers experienced a 6-minute delay. 11:10 p.m. A Franconia-Springfield-bound Blue Line train at Eastern Market was delayed 18 minutes due to police activity. |
|
|
| (1406110) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 23 15:14:58 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 10:27:52 2016. both more trains and more cars per train.But, as I have said before, isn't it wonderful that we are debating how to servea GROWING ridership? |
|
|
| (1406126) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 16:51:03 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 10:42:29 2016. Redeploy rolling stock from the Green Red and Yellow lines to allow the running of 100 percent 8 car trains and run the test again.Can the electrical power infrastructure handle that, even for a test? |
|
|
| (1406150) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 21:53:35 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 10:27:52 2016. We are not talking about most railroads we are talking about WMATA.You misread my comment. I didn't say "most railroads"; I said "most of the railroad," by which I meant WMATA's railroad. The numerous merges also play havoc with throughput, and the only line that doesn't have that kind of merging is the Red Line. |
|
|
| (1406151) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 22:16:48 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 16:51:03 2016. Can the electrical power infrastructure handle that, even for a test?At slower rates of acceleration and lower top speeds, probably yes. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406152) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 22:24:32 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 22:16:48 2016. But that's also going to decrease your throughput. |
|
|
| (1406153) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 22:26:57 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Aug 23 14:02:28 2016. Perhaps, thinking out of the box is needed. A swap meet!How about a lend/lease between NYTA and Warshington, send 40 R/68/68a's for a trial on one branch, and note any change. Of course, an equal number of cars will come to NY for a trial on the "A" or "E" or "F" lines. NYCT rolling stock is to heavy for the elevated infrastructure and to tall to fit through the tunnels. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406155) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 23:13:06 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 21:53:35 2016. You misread my comment. I didn't say "most railroads"; I said "most of the railroad," by which I meant WMATA's railroad.OK, however from my prospective that point is irrelevant. The numerous merges also play havoc with throughput, and the only line that doesn't have that kind of merging is the Red Line. The issues at the junction revolves around timing, as in timing the approach to the junction to properly execute the weave with the trains from the other route. WMATA has a subsystem within its train control and signaling system that is designed to handle that, Automatic Train Supervision (ATS). It is designed to alter the speed of trains (speed up or slow down) and dwell times (lengthen or shorten) to maintain proper spacing. Mind you if the railroad get really jacked up ATS becomes of useless. Pay no attention to the naysayers that say the points in the junction turnouts can't be moved quick enough to allow the following train to enter the interlocking. Fact is the turnouts can be reset within seconds of a train clearing the interlocking. I have stood at the south end of the lower level Rosslyn platform and heard the switch motor begin to move the points before the tail lights of the train that just cleared disappeared around the curve. The same applies on the upper level, the points can be reset and the signal cleared while a train is discharging and boarding passenger at the platform. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406156) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 23:22:06 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Tue Aug 23 22:24:32 2016. But that's also going to decrease your throughput.We are talking about archiving the goal of 29 train per hour, which happens to be less then 75 percent of the of the train control and signaling systems designed capacity of 40 train per hour. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406158) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 23 23:37:39 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 10:42:29 2016. Hell no. Running the Red and Green lines with only 6 car trains is a no-go. Maybe redo the schedules and car assignments so you have fewer trains on the Blue, Orange, Red, and Green lines but every one of them is 8 cars, so people know that they can use the length of the platform for every train. Also, having 6 car trains pull to the head end of each station as has been SOP since 2009 creates delays with dwell times as crowds rush up to the last door at stations with entrances at the far end of the station such as Union Station or Gallery Place.I've been suggesting that WMATA try running fewer trains on the Red Line but only 8 car trains to increase reliability for some time now. |
|
|
| (1406160) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 23 23:38:45 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Aug 23 14:05:43 2016. Even if all the trains were working, they are still short of what they need ideally. |
|
|
| (1406161) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 23 23:40:03 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by fdtutf on Mon Aug 22 22:52:22 2016. Dwell times are killed by having trains not stop at the center of platforms and having a mix of 6 and 8 car trains. If they ran fewer trains but made them all 8 car sets, especially on the Red Line, dwell times would almost certainly decrease. |
|
|
| (1406162) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 23 23:40:57 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 23:13:06 2016. Same goes for the various pocket tracks around the system, but who has been making that claim? The GGW "know it alls"? |
|
|
| (1406168) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 00:20:18 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 23 23:37:39 2016. Hell no. Running the Red and Green lines with only 6 car trains is a no-go. Maybe redo the schedules and car assignments so you have fewer trains on the Blue, Orange, Red, and Green lines but every one of them is 8 cars, so people know that they can use the length of the platform for every train. Also, having 6 car trains pull to the head end of each station as has been SOP since 2009 creates delays with dwell times as crowds rush up to the last door at stations with entrances at the far end of the station such as Union Station or Gallery Place.The test need not be done on a weekday. The redeployment from the Red, Green and Yellow line on a weekend day likely would not rob enough cars from those line to run less then a normal Saturday or Sunday service. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406169) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 00:28:50 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 23 23:40:57 2016. Same goes for the various pocket tracks around the system, but who has been making that claim?Add crossover to that list as well. The GGW "know it alls"? The GGW "know it alls" along with the most of the suits in the JGB are not old enough to have been around to see how it use to be done. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
|
|
| (1406184) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Wed Aug 24 11:10:11 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 24 00:28:50 2016. The people on GGW are taking WMATA's word. Not really their fault. |
|
|
| (1406185) | |
Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Wed Aug 24 11:11:36 2016, in response to Re: The Washington Metro's 26 TPH limit, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 23 23:22:06 2016. They're currently achieving 26. Restricting the trains' acceleration and top speeds ain't gonna help you do better than 26. |
|
|
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
