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| Re: DVARP head: Issues with rail cars' trucks (Re: Silverliner V problems) (1400681) | |
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| (1400887) | |
Re: DVARP head: Issues with rail cars' trucks (Re: Silverliner V problems) |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Jul 4 22:30:14 2016, in response to Re: DVARP head: Issues with rail cars' trucks (Re: Silverliner V problems), posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Jul 3 15:39:23 2016. And its an existing design used on the Superliners, Viewliners, Comets, etc. |
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| (1400888) | |
Re: issues with rail car's trucks; Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Jul 4 22:32:16 2016, in response to Re: issues with rail car's trucks; Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by nasadowsk on Mon Jul 4 21:30:20 2016. It's a tried and true reliable design that SEPTA uses on its Comet, SL-IV and B-IV cars. Amtrak's Viewliner II's even have GSI 70's. |
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| (1400890) | |
Re: issues with rail car's trucks; Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 4 22:44:32 2016, in response to Re: issues with rail car's trucks; Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Jul 4 22:32:16 2016. How can they screw it up after so many decades, is the question? |
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| (1400891) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jul 4 22:48:52 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jul 4 19:42:00 2016. And the irony was those Flixible buses actually provided service in Nassau County and other places for many years after they were no longer in NYC.I wonder if the streets caused the problems in NYC? |
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| (1400894) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by northshore on Mon Jul 4 23:27:43 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jul 4 22:48:52 2016. The private lines in NYC also operated the Grumman Flxible 879's with no problem.And ironically NYCTA also operated the Ave. B & East Bdwy Grumman 870's with no problem. |
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| (1400897) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 5 00:06:03 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 4 19:46:24 2016. Improvements started once the R-46 trucks were replaced. |
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| (1400900) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Bill West on Tue Jul 5 01:16:10 2016, in response to Re: issues with rail car's trucks; Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 4 22:44:32 2016. Let's sort out some bits here.On Columbus's side: -the trouble took 5 years to show, it showed on virtually all of the cars and it is slow cracks. That's fatigue as has been mentioned. -The design is sound as it has been successfully used for many years. -120 cars were delivered over about 3 years, that's 3-4 pairs of trucks per month so they were likely made in many batches. -the wide failure over many batches of an established design rules out random troubles with steel composition, pouring and heat treating. -the welding on of the pad over the journal is a ripe opportunity for failure of a tension stressed equalizer. But it would have to be one welder, doing all of them, and not following the weld type, penetration and length in the drawing. 20-30 batch inspections would have caught that. -if someone with good intent had initiated a change to the design of the weld starting with this batch however then that is a risk point and will come out when Columbus's detailed drawings are examined. On Hyundai's side: I have noticed several SV passengers' comments about bad ride qualities, especially at speed. That opens the question of car length, wheelbase, weight, spring size, suspension design/damping and the flexing/resonant characteristics of the car body. Any problem with these could result in prematurely reaching the equalizer's fatigue life, something that rough ride's vibrations would be very suggestive of. All things that are back in Hyundai's ballpark...., in the words of Arte Johnson "very interesting". I coincidently looked up Amtrak's SDP40F a few days ago. Despite EMD's long expertise these were a derailment disaster, to the point that some roads banned them. But now I read that the FRA resolved several years later that the actual problem was the resonance of lightweight baggage cars behind the SD's. Hence I am now slow to point at Columbus yet, they too have a long good history through GSI/Baldwin and through their own Buckeye trucks. Bill |
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| (1400901) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Bill West on Tue Jul 5 02:08:22 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Bill West on Tue Jul 5 01:16:10 2016. a PS:Columbus Castings and equalizer beams, which are usually forged, got me to wake up and realize I was crossing two Ohio towns. The well known maker of forged equalizer beams is Canton Drop Forge, I wonder if they were a contributor to our SV trucks? Just as we think of a coach being contributed to by many sub suppliers, even a truck might have the wheelsets, bearings, springs, dampers, brakes, etc all from sub-sub suppliers. Bill |
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| (1400902) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 5 02:41:48 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Bill West on Tue Jul 5 02:08:22 2016. Or Chinese steel.Just wanted to say thanks for all these details! |
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| (1400903) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 5 02:42:31 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Bill West on Tue Jul 5 01:16:10 2016. about the SDPr0Fs, thedamping wwas added troub;es were not uniform across al RRs. ATSF had no problems; SP did. Sacond issue, I have read that the issues had to do with liquids (both fuel and water for steam heat)sloshing around excessive;y in the tanks.Later, IINM extra damping was added to the trucks. |
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| (1400904) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 5 03:15:14 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 5 02:42:31 2016. If that was the case, you'd think someone would have looked at a design for tanker trucks and welded in partitions inside the tanks. Such an easy fix. :( |
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| (1400905) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 5 04:32:12 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jul 4 19:42:00 2016. Funny how those provided a couple of decades of reliable service on O.N.E.'s routes 24 and 44 on the other side of the Passaic. |
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| (1400907) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 06:56:06 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Bill West on Tue Jul 5 01:16:10 2016. Great post, Bill West! So it may be a a welding problem of the top plate to a casting? I think Jeff Knueupell made a reference to that?Jersey Mike says it's a tried and true design. |
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| (1400909) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jul 5 07:01:31 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 4 19:46:24 2016. I clearly remember riding one R-10 (E) train from Queens to Manhattan in the summer of 1980, which had severely flattened wheels. The train went BANG BANG BANG all the way into the city. That year, equipment went everywhere, to try and make up for shortages while the R-46s were being fixed. I remember some R-46s ended up on the (CC), and even R-32s on the (E) and (AA). |
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| (1400910) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 07:03:58 2016, in response to Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jul 2 16:18:50 2016. My friend who tipped me off about the cracked beams ask me to post this:"I e-mailed Denver's RTD and the MBTA suggesting they inspect their Hyundai Rotem fleet as well as the Denver and Boston newspapers requesting they do a story on this potential major issue. I contacted Boston's MBTA and Denver's RTD and suggested they inspect their Hyundai Rotem fleet , and the newspapers in Boston and Denver." |
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| (1400913) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 08:10:08 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 07:03:58 2016. I just got a report that was shown on the Philadelphia ABC Channel 6 news. around 6:40 AM, at the Jenkintown Station, a packed 2- car train pulled in. People scrambled to get on, a customer had one foot in the step-well and the guy behind him, pushed him aside, the first customer was thrown under he train. No reported injuries.People are getting crazy. this is a mess. My friend said the Norristown RR station was a madhouse this AM. a lot of people went for the NHSL. |
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| (1400914) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 08:25:00 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 08:10:08 2016. Train view |
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| (1400915) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 08:40:08 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 08:25:00 2016. The trains are so full, the conductors can't collect the fares. Free rides..... |
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| (1400921) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 11:16:19 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 08:40:08 2016. Some cut & pastes from Facebook why the SL-II & III"s were retired.High maintenance costs, wearing parts, and a fundamental incompatibility with the rest of the fleet (even before the Vs arrived) can. You can't have your old stuff forever. This is a public transit agency, not an operating transit museum. They were decommissioned by the FRA, basically meaning that the cars couldn't run on Tracks expected by the FRA. The FRA didn't like the fact, the side doors were plug doors (meaning they had to be opened manually by an conductor) and had all SL-II and IIIs run on waivers allowing them to operate longer with the manual doors. July 1st 2012 was the deadline for any SL-II/III could run in service so septa was basically forced to retire them as well as the fact the SL-Vs needed yard space and the older cars were taking up much needed space. Unfortunately this isn't like the NYC Subway where you can pull out reserve fleet of older cars, we are limited on our options. The FRA also cited lack of PA systems and other unspecified non-compliant emergency features in setting a final date for the Budds and Louies as well. Manual doors alone are not a deal-breaker. The Shore Line East Mafersa fleet are manual-door cars. Most of Boston's fleet are manual-door cars (on cars with power doors, they generally only use in power mode on the Old Colony routes, which have all high-level platform stations. Just one thing different about those MBTA, they slide, compared to being swing plug doors. Idk the case with MFSE cars. Plug doors are actually what are on the Acelas... (and the N-5's). The rest are just simply manual doors, whether sliding or on hinges. The MFSE cars are sliders too. Non powered doors, something to do with the flooring and quite frankly, they were old as hell. Honestly the III'S could of stayed a couple of more years.. but they were well past their useful life. Practically 3 railroads... lol I'm sure if SEPTA knew this was going to happen, they would of kept the IIs and III's as well as the Comets... This reminds me of the Ford/Firestone fiasco back in the mid 90's The Silverliner IIIs were in bad shape for a long time. They were long overdue, even after their early 1990s rebuilding. The FRA mandate waivers were being expired. The Budds and Louies would still reach the same fate by 2016. |
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| (1400924) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 11:53:21 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 11:16:19 2016. Still a mess |
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| (1400925) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 5 12:00:32 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 11:16:19 2016. This is a public transit agency, not an operating transit museumI wonder if they said that when the MP54s and Blueliners were still running? |
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| (1400926) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 5 12:46:39 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 5 12:00:32 2016. with PTC compliance they could also not be run, and older cars even if you had a 100 or so would all need inspections, air brake and truck overhauls, it is not like SEPTA has cash to spare in maintaining junk. |
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| (1400928) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jul 5 13:15:22 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jul 2 19:43:00 2016. Just received a reply Tweet from @SEPTA_Social re: Arrows. "Hi, Nathan, it is being considered, but keep in mind NJ TRANSIT also has limited equipment".I just saw a long line of idle Arrows parked along the RVL the other day, though...plus several F40s and other assorted equipment. Could some of these be returned to service, perhaps by a SEPTA funding agreement? |
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| (1400929) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Jul 5 13:30:15 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jul 5 13:15:22 2016. I'm not familiar with NJT's current situation but would "idle Arrows along the RVL" indicate that they are flood damaged? And F40s wouldn't help if diesels aren't allowed in the Center City tunnel (I don't know), unless they were used for branch-line shuttle service only. |
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| (1400931) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jul 5 13:45:15 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Jul 5 13:30:15 2016. I don't know why the Arrows are stored there, but the cars HAVE been on that side track for a while now. There are other unused Arrows at Kearny as well. There are Bombs stored in both places, too, along with the F40s. If possible, perhaps these could be restored and used to do either shuttle service, or free up other electrics. |
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| (1400934) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 5 14:17:35 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 5 03:15:14 2016. The soltions was a complete remanufacruing deal which is why the first F40PHR were specially numbered. It would be instructive to see ATSF paperwork on the units they purchased and rebuilt for freight service. |
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| (1400939) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 5 14:34:11 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by northshore on Mon Jul 4 23:27:43 2016. I don't think the Ave. B & E. Bway ever had those buses. They had the older Flxibles, which IIRC, didn't have those problems. The company may have even gone out of business/been bought out at that point.I do remember riding the new Flxible type out of the PABT. |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 14:35:08 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 5 14:17:35 2016. Septa is having another news conference , right now #periscope. |
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| (1400941) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 5 14:36:48 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jul 5 07:01:31 2016. I remember riding R-10s and R-32s on the F for the first time as well. |
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| (1400942) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 5 14:43:15 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 11:16:19 2016. What fundamental incompatabilities were there? I recall seeing II's and III's in the same trains with IV's fairly regularly. |
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| (1400947) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 15:18:28 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 14:35:08 2016. The news conference just ended. Jeff Knueppel mentioned possibly getting cars from some other agency. The situation is still evolving. |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 5 16:00:22 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 5 14:34:11 2016. Ave. B and East Broadway never had the Grumman 870 although some were ordered for them before went out of business. MABSTOA got them instead. |
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| (1400958) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 5 16:00:23 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 5 14:34:11 2016. Ave. B and East Broadway never had the Grumman 870 although some were ordered for them before went out of business. MABSTOA got them instead. |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 5 16:08:09 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jul 5 13:15:22 2016. not untill they are inspected and made in compliance, like airbrake overhaul and periodic inspections as per FRA |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Jul 5 16:47:39 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Jul 5 13:30:15 2016. You could use Diesels for services running on the Pennsy side. Airport/Newark/Elwyn to Paoli/Cynwyd/Trenton/CHW |
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| (1400966) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 16:58:00 2016, in response to Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jul 2 16:18:50 2016. Riders frustrated |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 5 17:54:58 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by R30A on Tue Jul 5 16:47:39 2016. what diesels are available with PTC ?? even Amtrak is short. |
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| (1400972) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 18:30:44 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 5 17:54:58 2016. My friend rode the EL in the rush hour, not bad at all around 5:40 PM.The NHSL ran 2-car sets, he was in the first car , packed, don't know about the second car. The NHSL was the 6:10PM local to Norristown. MFL NHSL |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Jul 5 20:24:28 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 11:16:19 2016. Maybe borrow the NJT Arrow IIIs that are mothballed? |
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| (1400980) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by kp5308 on Tue Jul 5 20:26:20 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Jul 5 13:30:15 2016. I passed the site(s) last year along the RVL where the Arrows, bombs & diesels were stored. This was all that was left: I've passed that way several times since then......empty. Have more cars/locomotives gone out there? |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 5 20:35:42 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Jul 5 20:24:28 2016. THEY DO NOT HAVE PTC AND ARE OUT OF INSPECTION. |
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| (1400983) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 5 20:36:06 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by kp5308 on Tue Jul 5 20:26:20 2016. non has PTC. |
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| (1400984) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by kp5308 on Tue Jul 5 20:37:16 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 5 20:36:06 2016. Junk anyway. Gone anyway. |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Tue Jul 5 22:35:54 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jul 4 19:42:00 2016. You're right, it was Grumman, got my G's mixed up. Thanks for fixing that.Truth is that GM came to the rescue with their RTS bus units so that the Washington DC 'fish bowls' could go back into retirement. |
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| (1401017) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 6 06:21:09 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jul 5 18:30:44 2016. This morning I was watching ABC-6 Channel 6 news, and they showed people riding in-between RR cars on the outside of the cars. One slip, and somebody falls. |
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Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 6 07:29:36 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 6 06:21:09 2016. ChaosPassengers in this video riding between cars. :( |
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| (1401029) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 6 08:08:14 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 6 07:29:36 2016. The mechanics of the Silverliner V Truck Problem.Why they crack |
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| (1401031) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jul 6 08:56:14 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 6 07:29:36 2016. Chuck: I tried to get on the SEPTA homepage at 855 AM and was unable to do so. I imagine that they must be getting a lot hits.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: 1980 R-46 problems |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 6 09:21:52 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jul 5 07:01:31 2016. And the funny thing was, it was said at that time in some circles the R-46 were on the CC because people were complaining of a lack of air-conditioning on the older cars (that the CC had normally been using). |
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| (1401045) | |
Re: Silverliner V problems |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 6 11:06:40 2016, in response to Re: Silverliner V problems, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jul 6 08:56:14 2016. That happens sometimes.Try this again Septa status |
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