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| VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station (1393668) | |
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| (1393668) | |
VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016 The NY Transit Museum runs walking tours of the elevated lines in the area around the Myrtle Avenue Station. As part of the tour, attendees can visit the abandoned upper level of the Myrtle Avenue station.The name of the tour is "Ghosts of the Elevated: Myrtle Avenue & Williamsburg". Tickets can be bought from the museum's website. The upper level is 100% safe, as there are secure railings to keep people on the platform. Enjoy, and please subscribe! |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 26 20:23:48 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. Oh why didn't someone dump a bucket of paint up there atop the R42 to cover the rust. |
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| (1393692) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Apr 26 21:57:20 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. Like A lot. Like it more if there were still Q's running to downtown from there. :) |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1393694) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Apr 26 22:01:04 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. Is the GRS pistol grip machine still in the tower? |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Apr 26 22:06:02 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Apr 26 21:57:20 2016. If you rode the Q's on Myrtle Ave, south of Broadway, you would like it a LOT less, back in 1968-69! |
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| (1393700) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Renee gil on Tue Apr 26 22:20:25 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. very cool vid. trackage leading to the abandoned upper level myrtle avenue platform were still there in the mid 90s. |
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| (1393702) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 26 22:35:07 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. nice video |
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| (1393705) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 23:03:10 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Apr 26 22:01:04 2016. I may be mistaken, but I think the frame is still there, but the grips, indicators, and guts of the machine are all gone.If I'm incorrect, somebody please correct me. Thanks! |
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| (1393707) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Apr 26 23:08:14 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Apr 26 22:06:02 2016. Yeah, we like nostalgia, but those Q's couldn't get out of their own way. |
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| (1393708) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 26 23:14:19 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Apr 26 23:08:14 2016. It was truly a laconic ride. That's what made it so special though. :) |
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| (1393733) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Wed Apr 27 01:36:18 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 26 20:23:48 2016. As far as I know, R42 pairs are being cycled down to Coney Island Yard for heavy maintenance and re-painting. |
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| (1393735) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Apr 27 06:05:06 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. Nice video.IIRC, the upper level station was named Broadway and not Myrtle Ave. Downstairs was Myrtle Ave, upstairs was Broadway. Hence the name Broadway-Myrtle Bill Newkirk |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 27 08:07:46 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. Thank you. I will try to make it. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 27 08:08:59 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Apr 26 21:57:20 2016. I'd be happy if there were R39s or their successors running there... |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 27 08:10:00 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Renee gil on Tue Apr 26 22:20:25 2016. Yep. I remember. And to this very day, some of the signal boxes remain... |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 27 08:23:56 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Apr 26 23:08:14 2016. At some point they got 2nd hand (Peckham ?) trucks, which made them slugs. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Apr 27 09:38:32 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by ebtmikado on Wed Apr 27 09:59:01 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 26 23:14:19 2016. One of the interesting things on the Myrtle Ave. El, was that the track rail joints were opposite each other, rather than staggered, so you got a BANG-BANG-BANG ride the whole way.Lee Carlson |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 27 12:23:38 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by ebtmikado on Wed Apr 27 09:59:01 2016. That was true on many lines, including most of the entire J line. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Apr 27 13:43:09 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 26 23:14:19 2016. Can a ride be "laconic"?According to Merriam-Webster, "laconic" means to use few words in writing or in a speech. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/laconic |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 27 17:00:46 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 27 08:23:56 2016. They got them from the retired fleet of Composites, in 1949-50, before the Q's could be used on the 3rd Ave el. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 27 17:14:33 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Apr 27 13:43:09 2016. That was the word often used to describe it ... sorta like a southern drawl in getting there. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 27 17:18:55 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 26 23:14:19 2016. Looks like Mitch was right ... the word I was looking for was "bucolic" ... whoops! |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 27 17:47:58 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Apr 26 22:06:02 2016. At the time the Qs were operating, towards downtown Bkln was railroad NORTH and with the Ms going to CTL, lvg Met is again RR north!!!!! |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 27 17:55:25 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 23:03:10 2016. The pistol grip GRS machine was actually a replacement for the original Hall S & S machine which was one of a kind on the NYCTS and was sort of similar to the Federal machines at Chambers, and also originally Essex and 168 St. The latter 2 were replaced by GRS pistol grip machines from other locations. 168 was replaced by the original Gold St (Myrtle) machine. I don’t know where the Essex St replacement machine came from and the Chamber St machine lasted until the new signaling controlled from the new Essex master tower was installed circa 1968. The replacement machine at Bway/Myrtle came from Qnsbro Plz west according to a Tw/M I asked there. Since the Qnsbro Plz area interlocking was placed on 11 St’s board in 1956, I suspect that was the year that the original machine at Bway/Myrt was replaced. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Wed Apr 27 17:59:35 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 27 17:55:25 2016. Interesting! |
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| (1393796) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Wed Apr 27 21:23:30 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Apr 26 22:06:02 2016. Lived there from '79-'92, I can understand what you mean. Still... |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 27 21:38:01 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 27 17:18:55 2016. well, if the conductor was taciturn, it would have been laconic.... |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 27 21:53:03 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 27 17:55:25 2016. Thanks as always for the great historic details. I'm bookmarking this post.- As I've posted before, this is the level of detail you find in English publications about the Underground. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 27 22:04:04 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. Great video!! Thanks so much.For all the transit I did miss, i consider myself so lucky to have ridden and photographed the lower end of the Myrtle from '68 up through October 1969.* Was at the upper level while still in service. *It's a hike, when you live out in Suffolk county! |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by murray1575 on Wed Apr 27 22:47:20 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 27 17:00:46 2016. That is correct. With the original Peckham motor trucks the Q's were too heavy even for the express track of the 3rd Ave. elevated. Therefore the maximum traction trucks of the IRT Composites were used since those cars were being scrapped. Note that the middle car of each set (trailer) retained its original trucks. Unfortunately the change in motors was not beneficial to the cars' performance (and they still had to run empty in the reverse peak direction on the local tracks). |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 27 23:54:20 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 27 21:38:01 2016. Heh. :) |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by trains61 on Thu Apr 28 02:41:15 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Apr 26 22:06:02 2016. Fuck you! |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 28 06:19:29 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. R-32s on the Curly, I see. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 28 10:52:00 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for this video.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Apr 28 11:41:48 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Apr 26 22:06:02 2016. Rode the Q's from 59 to 63 to Jay St and high school loved the entire experience, short sighted city really screwed the people with the demise of this great elevated line. Karl |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 28 12:46:09 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Apr 28 11:41:48 2016. They were 65 years old in 1969 and had to go.Still and all, they should have moved forward with the R39 or a modified R12/14 than listen to demagogue Ronan, even as a Jay Street/Broadway shuttle. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Q4 on Thu Apr 28 13:04:52 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 28 12:46:09 2016. If the line had been retained, I believe that it would have been operated as the Jay Street/Broadway shuttle mentioned by Joe V. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 28 13:14:36 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Q4 on Thu Apr 28 13:04:52 2016. Like the G sort of is today, short of QP.Imagine the possibilities of getting down to Metrotech from areas not served otherwise by the A/C. They could have run the trains right into the building. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 28 13:52:30 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 27 12:23:38 2016. You, the old one 1986 track was just like that and passing trains made a clickety clacking sound I'd recognize to this day. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 28 13:53:07 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 27 12:23:38 2016. Yep, the old pre 1986 track was just like that and passing trains made a clickety clacking sound I'd recognize to this day. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 28 13:56:57 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by murray1575 on Wed Apr 27 22:47:20 2016. This always intrigued me. What if a set of QQ types running as a thru express had to be rerouted down a local track due to any sort of issue, fully loaded? |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 28 14:24:14 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by murray1575 on Wed Apr 27 22:47:20 2016. The Composite Peckham trucks were installed on the end cars because of the weight of the steel bulkheading ends on the Q's. These had been added probably to alleviate any fears about an underground crash at Main St. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 28 14:57:51 2016, in response to VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Apr 26 20:13:08 2016. Nice!It's a shame people were so short-sighted back then. What should have been looked at back then was rebuilding the Myrtle El if necessary into a double-decked line (single tracks each level) that would have allowed for heavier cars and in turn could have connected after Navy Street to the Montauge Street line as I have brought up in my posts on this. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 28 17:37:30 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by trains61 on Thu Apr 28 02:41:15 2016. i rode that line back in the 1960's- did you? if you did, you would IMMEDIATELY understand why I wrote it! Nice language, by the way! |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 28 17:57:41 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 28 14:24:14 2016. I think that was probably state of the art for BMT conversions since the C types also had steel end bulkheads. The Cs were a bit lighter, however since the blind end platforms of the cars in a unit were cut off and replaced by enclosed passageways similar to the ones on the D types leading many to believe that the Cs were articulated which they were not. The Qs retained their end platforms on both ends of the cars in the unit and those were steel enclosed like the open ends. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 28 18:14:08 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 28 17:57:41 2016. Did anyone ever try to MU a C type with a Q type ? |
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| (1393894) | |
Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 28 19:52:46 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 28 18:14:08 2016. I don’t know. Except for yard moves, I don’t see where it would have been necessary although it may have been possible. Except for C units 1500 and 1501, AFAIK, all the Cs had their original BU master controllers replaced by ones removed from the unused cabs of the steels when they were unitized into B and BX units. The Qs retained their original BU controllers and the BUs and Qs only had 2 points of power series and multiple while the Cs had 3 switching series and multiple. The reason the Qs and BUs lacked a switching point has to do with their dead man’s button. As built, the master controllers had all 3 points of power, but when the handle was released by the M/M it only sprang into the off position but did not apply the brakes in emergency like a true deadman’s feature. In the 1920s, the state passed law requiring all electric self propelled cars to have a true deadman’s button that would apply the train brakes in emergency when released. To accomplish this, the BMT eliminated the switching position by making it a coasting position and adding an air valve which would apply the brakes if the controller were not kept at least on that first point. As I write this, I am thinking that since Cs 1500 and 1501 which had no switching position often operated in trains with other Cs which had a switching position, then it’s highly likely that a C could MU with a Q although as I mentioned before, except of yard moves, there would really have been no reason to MU them since they never operated on the same parts of the BMT during their service life. |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Apr 29 01:43:39 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by murray1575 on Wed Apr 27 22:47:20 2016. Hello Randyo and ALL;The MAIN REASONS WHY the BMT Q type cars as used on the Manhattan portion of the 3rd Avenue EL had to have the Composite trucks installed was -- not so much the extra steel weight from the steel enclosed former end open platforms. Remember, the Manhattan EL Gate Cars when made into MUDC Cars, also had steel enclosed ends -- actually a steel end front with 2 glass windows and two steel outside sliding doors and their mechanisms and motors where the platform gates originally were. The wooden storm doors on both Q's and MUDC's were the original (gate car) storm doors moved forward to the new steel shells. (a) -- The Q-type MOTOR (A and C) cars were created from BU Gate MOTOR 1200 and 1400 cars -- which had an operating cab at EACH END and a TWO MOTOR truck at one end, and a trailer truck at opposite end. As you already know. (b) -- The Q-Type Motor cars were designed to have only ONE OPERATING CAB, at the outer most end of the first and 3rd car of a 3 car A-B-C consist. The opposite end, as well as both ends of the B trailer car, having blind end sheets and no cabs, with a 2-passenger single seat in the enclosed platform on each side of the platform. (c) -- In creating a new cab ON the formerly open end, now fully enclosed platform, all the controls, switches, gauges, etc., in the original "in car body from open platform days" cab were moved forward and mounted below the window on the inside of the new steel cab-front wall. The thick wood framed rear original front bulkhead wall with its original cab glass then removed -- became the rear wall of the cab, and the opening where the window once was, became the space for the electrical switch cabinet. (d) -- To simplify the cab control wiring, the NEW CAB and controls were placed over the MOTOR TRUCK END of the new Q-Car Motor A & C Cars. Thus, a 3 car Q consist had trucks in this order (with the "B" trailer car as indicated in the /// .../// middle : MOTOR - TRAILER /// TRAILER - TRAILER /// TRAILER - MOTOR THAT was the main problem and MAIN REASON WHY the Q Types could NOT have their original BU Motor Trucks remain on them in "Manhattan only" trackage 3rd Ave EL service. Which I will explain further below: As you likely know, Randy, when the IRT EL cars were motorized circa 1900-1902, the underside of the open end platform location where the motor truck was installed beneath, received new steel edge of platform I Beams to reinforce the underside existing platform framing, and truck bolster assemblies. The trail truck platform end of the motor cars retained their original wooden trailer-car style platform "knee" beams -- which had a very slight V contour along the bottom line. ALL TRAILER cars retained their original platform support wooden "knee' beams These beams were plainly seen under both IRT EL Gate Cars and later MUDC Doors Converted cars. NOW - PER WEIGHT RESTRICTION MODIFICATIONS TO STRUCTURES: ============================================================== Some small modifications were done to the tops of the old "TRENTON" Style lattice-braced EL columns that flared outward at the tops where they met the cross girders --- the column tops looked like the letter " Y ". Look at photos of any old Manhattan 3rd Ave EL original columns to see this ! These 1877-8 era EL columns were commonly used mainly under the 9th and 3rd Avenue EL's in Manhattan. To handle the weight of the new Motorized EL cars, the TOPS of the Trenton Column open-flared-top " Y " were joined by a bolted on steel cross plate, to reinforce them from spreading or splitting. ADDITIONALLY, a STRICTLY ENFORCED IRT Rule went into place in 1901 regarding making up of these new electric motored train consists. ALL MOTOR TRUCK ENDS of ALL Motor Cars assigned to, used on, the east side 2nd and 3rd Avenue EL lines FACED NORTH. ALL MOTOR TRUCK ENDS of Motor cars used on the west side 6th and 9th Avenue EL lines FACED SOUTH. This arrangement was kept and maintained via the single track connection north of the South Ferry Junction Terminal Station....where west side trains could be re-assigned to east side lines, and vice versa. This arrangement was STRICTLY ENFORCED to prevent the coupling together of any two MOTOR CARS with the "2 TRACTION MOTOR" MOTOR TRUCKS facing directly across from each other --the 4 closely coupled traction motors creating too much concentrated weight on the TRENTON EL Columns....especially when their cars were loaded with passengers. BACK TO THE Q TYPES: =============================== As BMT-rebuilt in 1938-39, as I described in much detail further above, the IRT in very late 1949 settled on the plan to run SIX CAR Consists of Q types in express service (NOTE: They had planned on using some QX units to make 7 car consists, but then rejected that plan) The problem with the SIX car Consists (as opposed to 3 Car consists, as commonly used off-peak-hours on Myrtle EL years later) -- was that to couple together any TWO 3-car-Q-Type sets together, BOTH MOTOR TRUCKS would ALWAYS be facing, coupled to, each other....by pure design of their 3-car consist re-construction by the BMT. THAT WEIGHT PROBLEM WITH LOADED PASSENGERS -- was the problem, and why the IRT Composite Trucks, CREATED BY THE IRT, had to be placed under the Q Motor Cars -- each truck have One Traction Motor on the inboard (larger) wheelset. Thus when two Q Type motor A or C car CAB ENDS were coupled together (as had to be per the 3-car set design) -- only the weight of TWO TRACTION MOTORS (one in each truck) were at that coupled end...rather than FOUR TRACTION MOTORS. The fact that the Composite traction Motors had a bit lower horsepower than the BU Traction Motors, was the problem with slowness of the Q-Types with them, as the COMPOSITES consists (6 or 7 car consists) operated ONLY with all MOTOR CARS. Being the COMPOSITES were all Motor cars -- to solve the motor truck coupled to motor truck WEIGHT RESTRICTION problem on the Manhattan EL's -- the Composites, whose original motor & Trail trucks went to a new order of Steel Hi-V Subway cars, were given those IRT shop fabricated Maximum traction trucks, with ONE traction motor installed in each truck. Thus Composite cars could be coupled regardless of which end of the car was coupled to any other composite car. The Q TYPES, like the Composites they replaced in 1950, and whose trucks they operated on, were still deemed too heavy to run on the Manhattan 3rd Ave EL LOCAL TRACKS with passengers - again DUE TO those 1877-8 Trenton EL "flared top" Columns. However, the Composites and Q Cars could run WITH PASSENGERS (and did) on the LOCAL TRACKS of the Bronx 3rd Ave EL from E.149th Street north, where and when LCL-EXP route-assigned. The Composites did express only service on the Manhattan 2nd and 3rd Ave EL's. However, I don't know of any Composites that express-revenue-operated over the Queensboro Bridge to either Astoria or Flushing, although they actually could have. Composites were shopped at E.99th St (3rd Ave) Shops, yards, as well as E. 179th Street (3rd Ave) and E.239th St Shops, Yards. However, the Composites could run on local tracks with passengers on the much heavier built 2nd Avenue EL. I don't know if they ever did, as such, in normal revenue service -- except in 1903-04 when they were BRAND NEW with their factory new ORIGINAL TRUCKS -- when they were tested WITH PASSENGERS daily for 6 or so months on that EL which then had ONLY LOCAL TRACKS ! The Composites were NOT ALLOWED on ANY TRACKS in passenger service on the 9th Avenue EL which had at its portions below W. 60th Street, some of the oldest EL columns and track girders dating from 1875-6. They could not run on the South Ferry Branch of the 2nd-3rd Avenue EL below Chatham Square either, nor could nor did the Q Types. As YOU and some others here know, a number of Composites did the one time and RARE "Transfer" RUNS EMPTY south down the 3rd Ave EL South Ferry Branch, and "around the horn" single bypass track at South Ferry Terminal, and north up the 9th Avenue EL - in June 1940, to get them up to the Polo Grounds W.155th Street Station and yards for starting new service on the POLO GROUNDS Shuttle after the 9th Ave EL shut down below W.158th Street in June 1940. That's basically all of it ! regards - Joe F |
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Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Apr 29 02:16:41 2016, in response to Re: VIDEO: SPECIAL - Scenes from the Abandoned Upper Level of Myrtle Avenue Station, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Apr 29 01:43:39 2016. Thanks you!Transit history is in the details! :) |
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