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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 20:31:36 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 6 17:54:13 2016. They could put in 15 tph worth of Ms. Maybe they don't all originate at Metropolitan. Maybe some originate at Myrtle/Bway. The added traffic won't originate at Metropolitan. It'll originate at Myrtle-Wycoff and inbound from there. |
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| (1384563) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 6 21:04:21 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 6 19:36:02 2016. My then teenage son was mugged on East 60th St in Manhattan once. |
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| (1384566) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 21:17:34 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 6 21:04:21 2016. I was mugged once at 5th Ave and 10th Street. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1384569) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 22:28:33 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 02:50:10 2016. I was talking 71-Continental, NOT Queens Plaza.And the problem with QP is it can back up other trains during fumigating whereas 96/2 would not. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 22:34:46 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 22:28:33 2016. Agreed. But we're talking on an emergency basis here. So they could have lots of platform conductors to fumigate quickly.Closing the L will bring more passengers up to Court Square. How do you propose getting them into Manhattan if not by adding more Ms in the 53rd street tunnel? |
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| (1384575) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 22:53:50 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 6 17:54:13 2016. Which is why I came up with the "Orange (T)" as a compromise since such line can actually be 24/7 to 96th/2nd and also give riders on the upper east side a direct 6th Avenue option at all times. These would be additional (M) trains just signed in as (T) because they would be continuing uptown after 47-50 and going as noted, fully replacing the (M) weekends and overnights and supplementing the (M) on weekdays.This "Orange (T)" I would actually look at making permanent even after the (L) tunnel closure ends. |
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| (1384576) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 23:00:49 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 22:34:46 2016. Maybe you ALSO add a couple of (M)'s that are short-turned at QP during peak times.Main thing is getting the riders to midtown, which a combined (M) / (T) does. The (T) also in this as noted would be 24/7 and give upper east side riders a 6th avenue option and something I'd actually make permanent even after the (L) shutdown. This also is why (as previously noted) I'd be looking at doing an emergency rebuild if time permits of at least two additional tracks leading into Atlantic Avenue on the (L) (either the two right next to the ones in use or using the Snediker Avenue portion that is still in place enough to where it can be rebuilt to terminal tracks) so I can have a Broadway-Brooklyn line run to Canarsie while the (L) is truncated to Atlantic and can better handle the much more heavily traveled portion of the line (possibly a re-routed (C) running to Rockaway Parkway with the (E) (excluding select trains rush hours) extended to Euclid to replace it). |
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| (1384577) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 23:16:01 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 6 15:34:37 2016. Exactly:This is a common-sense situation. The MTA at least had the sense to keep enough of the old structures in place to where they can be rebuilt enough to handle a Broadway-Brooklyn service running to Canarsie (that would replace the (L) between Rockaway Parkway and Atlantic Avenue) and an (L) terminating at Atlantic Avenue on four tracks by rebuilding EITHER as through tracks that can also allow trains to terminate at Atlantic Avenue OR as terminal tracks on the Snediker Avenue platform that would allow the (L) to terminate there and allow the (L) to better service the much more heavily used portion of the line. |
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| (1384578) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sat Feb 6 23:19:35 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Feb 5 11:20:46 2016. That's what I was getting at. Rebuilding it so that it again has four tracks, switches for short-turning trains, at least minimal crew facilities. Shouldn't cost billions, or hundreds of millions, or even tens of millions. Should be doable within three years. |
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| (1384579) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 6 23:22:00 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 21:17:34 2016. Outside the Plaza Hotel for me. :) |
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| (1384580) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 23:40:13 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 6 14:55:20 2016. depends on hopw long you expect to live. How long ago would you have made the same comment about Williamsburgh? |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 7 01:22:03 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 23:40:13 2016. You are comparing apples to oranges. Williamsburgh has its proximity to the East River, as well as older commercial buildings capable of being converted into housing and other uses. East NY has neither! |
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| (1384588) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 7 01:42:29 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Feb 5 02:17:44 2016. Many people care what I think. Just like many people don't care what you think you racist anti-semitic pig. |
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| (1384590) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 02:19:40 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 7 01:22:03 2016. Correct me if wrong, but I understood that some of the now hipster paradise was an area of crack dens and decrepit buildings. I certainly remember the 14th St-Canarsie trains as nearly empty when I lived in the East Village in the late 60s. |
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| (1384591) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 7 04:05:39 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 5 09:52:08 2016. I don't believe that the Canarsie trains could be sent uptown because of delays that would be caused to other lines. Correct me if I'm wrong but....1. Queens Plaza cannot be used as a terminal in rush hours because of delays that would occur to the E. 2. Forest Hills cannot be used as a terminal because its capacity is maxed out (fumigation procedure). 3. 96th - 2 Av. is not practical because of the switching involved near 63rd St. that would delay F and Q riders. Of course, if I'm wrong in any of the three points above, then that's where the Canarsie trains should go for the duration. Otherwise, they will have to go downtown and passengers would have to switch for a train heading uptown at one of the several options open to them. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 06:01:07 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 23:00:49 2016. You can turn supplementary M trains at Broadway Junction on the J/Z if you don't want to run them to Metropolitan. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:36:13 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 6 23:22:00 2016. NOBODY mugs da LION.ROAR |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:42:35 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 02:19:40 2016. Neighborhoods can change in either direction very quickly.When property values drop far enough, young people can start snapping them up and building anew. Other properties deteriorate with nature or with neglect. LION walked the neighborhoods north west of Bway Jctn and found them in a state of revision. The properties him saw were renewed. Say what you like about the "housing bubble" and the stuff with da banks, the money *did* go somewhere, and into the neighborhoods it did go. It does not matter if they were good loans or bad loans, the housing did improve. If banks got stuck, well, they did not get stuck, they just repackaged the loans, and sold them sub-prime, so the banks did not get hurt. Investords that bought sub-prime stuff did get hurt, but WTH... *THEY* *WERE* speculating on high interst loans backed by Freddie or some such. THEY took the risk, KNOWING the risk, and if the;y loose, Tough Buggers! ROAR |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 07:48:41 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 22:53:50 2016. As I said, you can't shoehorn all L passengers on the WBB, even if you go from 9 to 15 TPH, regardless of what they are called. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 7 09:00:18 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 07:48:41 2016. No, but if you can cut down on passengers using the (L) and (G) (as the (G) is certain to also be jammed), that will make a difference.I would also encourage passengers as much as possible who switch to the (G) to take the (G) to Hoyt-Schermerhorn in the other direction and get the (A) or (C) there and those close to Broadway Junction to go there for the (A) (C) or (J). I would also have a special OOS transfer available between the (G) and the Atlantic-Barclays complex with the 2/3/4/5/B/D/F/N/Q/R and if needed also one between the (G) at Fulton and (C) at Lafayette Avenue. |
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| (1384617) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 7 09:28:04 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 7 04:05:39 2016. If I were to do any of that, I would actually:Have the (C) that is also a 480' train be re-routed after West 4th, run via the (M) and then (J) to Broadway Junction and then via the current (L) to Rockaway Parkway. This version of the (C) would be a 24/7 line between Rockaway Parkway and 168th Street (it's been noted elsewhere there are still signals on the stretch between Broadway Junction and Rockaway Parkway). During this time the (C) and (M) (and if my other noted idea were implemented, "Orange (T)") would run express in Brooklyn (M to/from Myrtle, C to/from Broadway Junction) during peak hours while the (J) and (Z) would run local then. The (L) would be truncated to Broadway Junction (Google Earth shows there is a switch between Broadway Junction and where the line goes underground) where it can better serve the much more heavily traveled part of the line. Yes, this would create a slew of other issues (most notably the (C) merging with the (M) and (F) at Broadway-Lafayette and the (J) at Essex, but there are going to be issues no matter what because of the (L) shutdown and this would likely minimize those. If those changes are made, there are other ripple effects, those being (as I would do them): The (E) is extended to Euclid Avenue to replace the (C) in Brooklyn at all times and late nights is further extended to Lefferts to eliminate the late-night shuttle. Because of capacity issues between Canal and Chambers Streets, during peak hours, select (E) trains (including ALL (E)'s that begin and end at 179th Street) are designated as Since the (C) would be leaving the line at West 4th, there would also be a supplemental (K) train (running a max of 2-5 TPH) at all times betweeen Chambers and 168th Street. Again a far from perfect situation, but might be the most doable for at least this period (and if proven successful could be made permanent after the (L) closure is over). |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 7 09:37:34 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 06:01:07 2016. The idea is, all of them would come from Metropolitan with the (M) going as it normally does on weekdays to 71st-Continental (and MAYBE an extra (M) or two truncating at Queens Plaza) while the (T) would be running 24/7 to 96th and 2nd, giving Broadway-Brooklyn riders a UES option and UES riders direct 6th Avenue service.I also noted in another post in this thread my idea to truncate the (L) at Broadway Junction during the closure and have the (C) replace it along the Atlantic Avenue to Rockaway Parkway portion, running from Canarsie to Atlantic Avenue on the Canarsie Line then to Broadway Junction and from there on Broadway-Brooklyn through Essex, then via the (M) to West 4th and finally via its regular route to 168th (as noted in other places, the signals are still in place between Atlantic and Rockaway Parkway because of non-CBTC trains needing to go there for washes and Google Earth shows switches west/north of Broadway Junction before the portal). Far from perfect, but it would likely help. |
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| (1384619) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 10:03:29 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 7 09:28:04 2016. YOU are making a complication that does knot knead to bee! |
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| (1384620) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 7 10:09:28 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 7 09:28:04 2016. Your routing of the C to Canarsie runs into many problems of merging. Northbound with the M, then the J/Z (unavoidable), then F, then E, both of which have 15 tph. Southbound, with the E (unavoidable), then the F and M, then the J/Z. That's asking for too much trouble. The TA has proven itself incapable of producing smooth merges. Ergo, merges need to be avoided as much as possible. For the 3-year period, the only way to have trains to Manhattan from Rockaway Parkway would be via Broadway Brooklyn, preferably local via Nassau St. to Broad St. Call this service the K. Passengers can change at various points for various uptown trains. Not ideal, but the smoothest possibility given the situation, because of the fewest merges and no capacity issues. The only merges would be with the M and then the J/Z. Should be doable with a train every 10 minutes, 6 tph, total 24 tph over the Williamsburgh Bridge. If quantity of rolling stock permits, the K can be extended to 95th St.-Fort Hamilton to help out the R. Broadway-Brooklyn Express trains would probably entice some E train riders, easing the congestion on that line as well. |
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| (1384623) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:18:13 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 7 09:00:18 2016. I would also encourage passengers as much as possible who switch to the (G) to take the (G) to Hoyt-Schermerhorn in the other direction and get the (A) or (C) there and those close to Broadway Junction to go there for the (A) (C) or (J). I would also have a special OOS transfer available between the (G) and the Atlantic-Barclays complex with the 2/3/4/5/B/D/F/N/Q/R and if needed also one between the (G) at Fulton and (C) at Lafayette Avenue.Most rush hour L passengers want to go to midtown. Some will make their way to the G. Why should they take the G southbound to H-S when it is so much quicker to take the G a few stops north to Court Square for a quick trip to midtown from there? |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:21:57 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 07:48:41 2016. Why do you keep ignoring the opportunity for 5 additional TPH through the 53rd street tunnel? The best way for many L passengers to reach that tunnel is the G, not M to bus to QB service.5 additional tph through 53rd street, with existing M trains more packed. Up to 10 additional tph over the WB, with existing M/J/Z trains more packed. Together that nearly accommodates all 20 tph of L passengers. |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 7 10:24:14 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 7 04:05:39 2016. 96th - 2 av would actually be doable; since they need to merge/diverge with the F at some point it wouldn't matter if it's at 63st versus anywhere else. The Q shares with the N and R currently so sharing with the canarsie trains would be fine.This is, of course, assuming that there even is enough capacity to bring 4 routes over the Willy B (and 3 on the 6th ave local). Which is a mighty big assumption... |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:46:50 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 7 04:05:39 2016. 1. Queens Plaza cannot be used as a terminal in rush hours because of delays that would occur to the E.Have 8 platform conductors. Get the people out of there in 30 seconds max. Expensive? Of course. But it's the best way to get a lot of L train riders into midtown and far cheaper than adding 100 buses per hour crossing the East River. It's justifiable as an interim expense even though it would never be justified as a permanent answer. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 7 11:10:01 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 7 09:37:34 2016. Can Metropolitan turn both M and T trains during the rush. M trains already have to enter and leave Metro at slow speeds because the tracks end within the station. Can the flat junction at Broadway and Myrtle handle this T service in addition to the J, M and Z? I'm not sure if either one can handle it just fine. It might be able to handle a couple more M trains per hour (literally, as in two).By sending the (C) to Rockaway Parkway, you're creating a new merge and potential choke point at West 4th St (where the C would be switching from the 8th Ave Local to the 6th Ave Local, but you already knew that). If you want to run an IND service to/from Rockaway Pkwy, why not run this (T) service there? At least then there would be no merging at West 4. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:30:10 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 7 11:10:01 2016. Can Metropolitan turn both M and T trains during the rush. M trains already have to enter and leave Metro at slow speeds because the tracks end within the station. Can the flat junction at Broadway and Myrtle handle this T service in addition to the J, M and Z? I'm not sure if either one can handle it just fine. It might be able to handle a couple more M trains per hour (literally, as in two).Metropolitan only handles 9 tph max. No reason it can't handle 15 - that's still 4 minute intervals. Also, you can turn a bunch of supplemental "M" trains at Broadway Jct. |
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| (1384638) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 7 11:47:31 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:42:35 2016. Lion chose his words carefully. His "State of revision", is Bushwick, which is undergoing change for the better. That is the area north west of East NY, which has yet to see any significant changes. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sun Feb 7 12:01:31 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 7 11:10:01 2016. No, you just move your merge problem to 63/Lex instead, and any ripple effects to Queens Blvd. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 7 12:44:39 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by K. Trout on Sun Feb 7 12:01:31 2016. No I don't. That "merge problem" would happen anyway. The only way for it not to happen is not to run ANY extra service to/from 96th/2nd. That's certainly possible to do; you run the extra trains via 53rd and turn them at Queens Plaza. But that, too, could have ripple effects on Queens Blvd.Better to create a new merge (if we must) at 63rd/Lex than at West 4th, where there are far more trains running through. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by jabrams on Sun Feb 7 13:11:01 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 6 23:16:01 2016. Won't happen. Canarsi residents that want the A or C, will not be willing to get off at Atlantic to change trains for one stop to B'way Junction. Similarly for the J or Z trains if the L continues to Manhattan. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 18:07:50 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:36:13 2016. Lion probably doesn't have a wallet. :) |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 7 18:18:24 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 18:07:50 2016. Luckily, the savages threw mine to the street and I was lucky enough to find it! Luckily, my $22 dollars was enough for them, so I got my NJ D/L, draft card, St John's Univ ID, and SS card back. It changed my perception of people, places, and things! |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 18:25:53 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 7 18:18:24 2016. In my case, the mugger didn't succeed. White guy, junkie, hit me on the head with a bottle and didn't hurt me any. So I took a dive so he would think he'd won and once on the ground, he came at me for my wallet with a knife. Kicked the knife out of his hand under a car and he took off. He got nothing. :) |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Mon Feb 8 01:01:01 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 7 10:24:14 2016. You're right, 96th-2 Av might be doable. Problem is....if the TA gives Canarsie riders direct mid-town service for three years, the TA won't be able to take it away without a big protest. In any event, the Atlantic Av. station should be rebuilt to four tracks to allow short turns, either for Broadway-Brooklyn service or for L train service, after the 3-year period of restoration of the 14th St. tunnel. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 02:44:10 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:18:13 2016. In this case, crowds.It's been well noted the (E) (M) and (7) are all likely to take on even more passengers with this. By encouraging people to use the (G) the other way to Fulton where it meets several other lines, even if only a small number do that, it can make a big difference. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 02:44:39 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 02:44:10 2016. Obviously I meant the (M) from Queens Boulevard in this case. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 02:48:01 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 7 11:10:01 2016. I would be running both.There are going to be MAJOR issues no matter what because of this (L) tunnel shutdown. The re-routed (C) and "Orange (T)" between them both would help keep riders off the (L) at key points, and keep those who actually need the (L) in Brooklyn (not traveling to Manhattan) being able to do so more easily. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 02:52:58 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 7 12:44:39 2016. Like I said, you're going to be dealing with big-time problems no matter what with this (L) closure.My idea is far from perfect, but the idea here is to minimize what is going to be a big-time problem no matter how you slice it. |
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| (1384810) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 03:15:15 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 7 10:09:28 2016. I have in the past suggested the Nassau option (and in fact have called it (K) as well) so that might work as well:That said, as we all know people want midtown and you will see a mass exodus at Essex-Delancey, either waiting there for the (M) (and/or my "Orange (T)" if that were brought in) or walking over to get the (F). Those who stay on to Canal to get the Broadway line would then be dealing with what have been known (from what I've read) to be overcrowded platforms at Canal, which you have to walk through to get the (6) or the Broadway Locals. Re-routing the (C) to Rockaway Parkway gives those from Canarsie a one-seat ride to midtown via 8th Avenue and allows for a much better transfer to the 6th and Lexington Avenue lines at Broadway-Lafayette and obviously then going on 8th Avenue to run its regular route. Some on the (F) might have to suffer a little bit with a couple of (F) trains at peak hours cut in favor of a few additional (G) trains OR 2-3 (F) TPH running via the Crosstown at peak times to take pressure off the (G) that will be picking up many more passengers during this time. Yes, that also means the other items ( (E) extended to Euclid outside of a handful of trains at peak hours that still turn at Chambers and a new (K) that is a supplement to the (C) running Chambers-168), but the idea is to get as many riders off the (L) (and also (G) as possible), and having this re-routed (C) go Rockaway Parkway-168th does that. Even with the merger issues at peak times in particular, it may be something that has to be done because there really is no good way to handle the (L) tunnels being out of commission for such an extended period like there will be. This is also why I have the "Orange (T)" that really is a beefed-up (M) going to 96th Street-2nd Avenue that would be 6-7 TPH (2-3 TPH overnights) and run as a 24/7 line to 96/2, replacing the (M) on weekends. Both changes combined likely take a lot of pressure off the (L). |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 03:17:57 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Mon Feb 8 01:01:01 2016. Exactly:You can even rebuild the Atlantic Avenue (L) back to six tracks with the Snediker Avenue platform used as a terminal and also (especially late nights) for storage (and as noted, according to Google Earth enough of the old structure was kept so it can be done). |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 03:18:59 2016, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (L) Station, posted by jabrams on Sun Feb 7 13:11:01 2016. We are talking about an emergency situation here.This may turn out to be where needs trump wants. |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 09:23:33 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Mon Feb 8 01:01:01 2016. In any event, the Atlantic Av. station should be rebuilt to four tracks to allow short turns, either for Broadway-Brooklyn service or for L train service, after the 3-year period of restoration of the 14th St. tunnel.Short turns are already possible at Broadway Junction. |
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Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 8 13:23:53 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 03:15:15 2016. From a previous message:"Re-routing the (C) to Rockaway Parkway gives those from Canarsie a one-seat ride to midtown via 8th Avenue and allows for a much better transfer to the 6th and Lexington Avenue lines at Broadway-Lafayette and obviously then going on 8th Avenue to run its regular route. Some on the (F) might have to suffer a little bit with a couple of (F) trains at peak hours cut in favor of a few additional (G) trains OR 2-3 (F) TPH running via the Crosstown at peak times to take pressure off the (G) that will be picking up many more passengers during this time." -------- I believe that I can say with good assurance that the MTA is NOT GOING TO CUT F-TRAINS for your proposal! Among the other items in your proposal this is one plank or idea that is simply not going to happen given the Queens ridership of the F-train, any time soon. The MTA is not going to cut F-trains in favor of a few additional G-trains on a regular basis, or by sending F-trains on the G-train on a regular basis when the majority of the F-train riders want to travel to/from Manhattan. If the G-train were to suffer additional riders due to the L-train closure - MTA could simply add additional cars to each of the G-trains traveling that line, or increase the frequency of G-trains serving that line. Neither response requires the re-routing of F-trains, or shifting Queens Blvd riders who want mid-town Manhattan access. Again, as usual you've torn up the subway map to deal with what you perceive to be an "emergency problem". Yes, your re-routing of the C-train from Eighth Avenue along Houston Street to the J/Z lines, and then in Brooklyn along the Canarsie line does try to "re-create" the L-train from terminal to terminal. Except that it does very, very little for the majority of the L-train riders that whose home stations are in the middle and western portion of the route. Again, as usual you're wrapping up a variety of your previous proposals in a new form, but it is really the same old stuff. Dealing with the issues presented by the possible 3-year closure of the 14th Street Tunnel for the L-train is a major challenge. (The closure could be 1-year or 2-years depending upon the nature of the scope of work and other issues to be determined.) Tearing up the subway map with the number of re-routed train lines does not really get at those problems. Mike |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 8 15:30:00 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 09:23:33 2016. The problem with short turns at Bway Jct is that trains would be turning on the mainline like 57/6. |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 15:33:25 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 8 15:30:00 2016. ???Have the tracks changed? The Peter Dougherty track map that I have shows a middle third track on the J/Z at Broadway Junction. Just like Whitehall Street. |
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Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 8 16:56:55 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 02:48:01 2016. But there's not enough track capacity for both PLUS the existing services they will share tracks with! Do you really think the Broadway/Jamaica el really has all this excess capacity to run the C, J/Z, M and T services? Do you really think the 6th Ave local tracks can easily handle the C, F, M and T trains between the Chrystie connection and West 4th? What if a train stalls, or there's a sick passenger or a police investigation anywhere along those routes? And please don't say "Well, I would reroute select F trains over the G line," like you have before because that will just create another problem elsewhere.You won't be able to fit both. It's either the C or the T. If I were you, I'd choose the T, because Canarsie riders already have the option of transferring to the C at Broadway Junction. They're not also going to close the connection between the BMT and IND at Broadway Junction, while the Canarsie tubes are closed. So there is absolutely no need for the C to be rerouted to Rockaway Pkwy via the F line, the J line, then the L line and running the risk of fouling up all those lines, plus the E and M as well. On the other hand, L riders will face severely reduced service if the MTA chooses to only take out one tube at a time. Then it might be desirable to have another service that can get to Manhattan on at least part of the Canarsie route. That's where the "Orange T" comes in. Run that service to/from Canarsie via Broadway Junction and Chrystie. Yes, it may very well be difficult to take it away once the work on the tubes is finished. |
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