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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 20 20:05:31 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 19:36:10 2015. I can't agree with decisions based on questionable politics & motivations. Thats different from "facts" The museum people (Bloomburg & co.) originally wanted one of the PATH cars in the 9/11 museum. The Port Authority turned them down. Why?? I don't know.Lame excuses were thrown out there about not having enough room. Thats a blatant lie. In the original plans, room could have been made. Room was made for all the other vehicles involved with that day and that gift shop. BTW no selfies are allowed at the museum. Big signs all around, no cameras, no pictures. So you trolley museum folks got your PATH car. Enjoy it. And all the cold blooded insensitive bastards who go "ooh & aHH" at it & take their selfies & think of it as a symbol of just another example of the metropolitan areas mass progress just don't get it...and never will!! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 23:24:44 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 20 20:05:31 2015. "I can't agree with decisions based on questionable politics & motivations. Thats different from "facts" The museum people (Bloomburg & co.) originally wanted one of the PATH cars in the 9/11 museum. The Port Authority turned them down. Why?? I don't know.Lame excuses were thrown out there about not having enough room. Thats a blatant lie. In the original plans, room could have been made. Room was made for all the other vehicles involved with that day and that gift shop. BTW no selfies are allowed at the museum. Big signs all around, no cameras, no pictures." What in the world are you talking about? These are the facts I posted: "Yeah well it's not going to the 9/11 museum. It's going to a TROLLEY museum, where tourists can take selfies next to it." Those are facts. Can you admit that those facts are true? You don't have to agree with the decisions that led to them, but you can admit that they are in fact true and factual. Once you admit to them, then please explain WHY CAN'T THE TROLLEY MUSEUM THEN GO AN OPERATE THE CAR?@?@?@?@?@?@?!!!!!!!! "BTW no selfies are allowed at the museum. Big signs all around, no cameras, no pictures." If true, that's pretty lame. "And all the cold blooded insensitive bastards who go "ooh & aHH" at it & take their selfies & think of it as a symbol of just another example of the metropolitan areas mass progress just don't get it...and never will!!" WTF?!!?!?!? Surely it will be part of an exhibit on 9/11, and the fact that it was under the Twin Towers will be plastered all over the car. Why are you so ridiculous? |
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Posted by Strike_Mark on Mon Dec 21 12:25:53 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 13:16:56 2015. A link for what? |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 21 12:35:12 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Strike_Mark on Mon Dec 21 12:25:53 2015. Information detailing how exactly those two cars survived. What I've seen written about it so far was nonspecific and didn't say how they were able to remain intact while the towers on top of them completely came down. |
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Posted by Strike_Mark on Mon Dec 21 12:49:07 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 21 12:35:12 2015. Google it, I found several photos that show two cars in an area that didn't collapse while the rest of the train cars were either destroyed or so badly damaged they were cut up on site. Other photos that detail this, I can't share. |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Dec 21 12:50:57 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 17 07:41:40 2015. A PA4 car and several other older cars were crushed into flat cars.Urban legend; there was a photo in a recent BERA newsletter. They were damaged heavily but not "flattened." |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Dec 21 13:16:37 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Strike_Mark on Mon Dec 21 12:49:07 2015. Ok, thanks. |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Dec 21 16:14:45 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 15:12:19 2015. So what's the harm in actually OPERATING it?????Energized trolley wire would help. Bill ,b>Newkirk |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Dec 21 16:29:27 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 17 22:22:34 2015. That car belongs in the 9/11 museum down on ground zero & not at TMNY or any other museum where geeks & insensitive foamers want to see it lumped in with another discarded obeselete relics as some sort of tourist atraction.Although I haven't been to the 9/11 Musuem as of late, I agree that one of the two PATH cars belong in that museum. However, I hear that there was no room for a 48' PATH car down there. Bill Newkirk |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Dec 21 16:45:05 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 18 17:58:13 2015. Hopefully Branford can some day get a PA4 as its playmate.Right now, Branford's top priority is finishing the "Elevating The Collection" project and storing recently repaired "Sandy" damaged equipment before a nor'easter strikes and sets everything back. As a member of SLTM, I don't think acquiring a PA-4 as a playmate for #745 is at all a necessity. I'm not totally sure there are any PA-4's that have not been convereted to work service for this to happen. Bill Newkirk |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 21 18:47:37 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Dec 21 16:14:45 2015. Not needed. It's been posted that they already have a workaround. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 21 18:54:25 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 23:24:44 2015. The main reason that the trolley museum can’t operate the car is because it is a non control car so it has no means of self operating. As for trying to run it with the R-16, it has incompatible couplers and an incompatible motor control system so unless 2 more compatible PATH cars manage to find their way to the trolley museum, the car will not operate. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Dec 21 19:15:00 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 21 18:54:25 2015. Thanks, randyo |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Evan on Mon Dec 21 19:50:50 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Dec 21 13:16:37 2015. BERA's newsletter from last September also details how the two cars survived, with pictures and a map of the tracks relative to the WTC towers. |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Dec 21 22:06:25 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 21 18:54:25 2015. That's actually the main reason it CAN run. The R16 schematics CAN M.U. with the PA car, and its air supply and M.G. can supply low voltage. Motor control signals pick up same, unit switches and cam control along with doors can be worked. They M.U.ed with K cars. Wouldn't be hard to install an H2A. Question isn't how they can be compatible but WHY would we bother? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 21 22:51:26 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Mon Dec 21 19:50:50 2015. I would love to see that if anyone has it available. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 22 13:28:15 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Dec 21 22:06:25 2015. Actually, according to a PATH car equipment foreman I knew An H drawhead cannot be installed on the PATH cars due to the complexity of the electrical connections on the GOHed PA-1s through 3s and PA-5s. PATH switched to OB drawheads because WH could not supply an electric portion on the H couplers with sufficient contacts to handle all the electrical amenities of the cars. There are also a few other vagaries that would make the PA car incompatible with the R-16 such as maximum speeds and acceleration/deceleration rates. Another factor to consider is that even if the R-16 could be coupled to the PATH car, unless TMNY has some sort of loop, another compatible car, if found, would have to be coupled to the other end of the PATH car since it has no motor controls at either end. |
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Posted by Evan on Tue Dec 22 16:38:31 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. Here's a short professionally produced video covering the PATH car move to TMNY. |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Dec 22 17:07:04 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Tue Dec 22 16:38:31 2015. Nice video.Acquisition of this car should definitely increase visitors to the museum, especially in the summer. Bill Newkirk |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue Dec 22 18:06:41 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Tue Dec 22 16:38:31 2015. 5 crying stars out of 5 crying stars for this video.chud1. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 22 18:35:17 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by randyo on Tue Dec 22 13:28:15 2015. What would it take to make hostler controls ?If you remember the LIRR MP70T "3500's" of 1953 (now extinct), they supposedly had them. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 22 18:40:50 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Mon Dec 21 19:50:50 2015. Were it not for the 9/11 disaster, I think it safe to assume that no PA1-2-3 would exist. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Dec 22 19:58:44 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 22 18:40:50 2015. Which would have been awful, and wrong. |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue Dec 22 22:20:13 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by randyo on Tue Dec 22 13:28:15 2015. I'm talking simple DC basic circuits, Application and release magnets, MAYBE P.A. although I don't believe the two systems are at all compatible, DC feed pins for lighting, brake pipe and straight air and one of the 5 side sign pins if needed. More than enough pins despite your foreman friend. Mechanically the drawheads will fit and the plumbing and rewiring the PA portion block to key circuits on R16 is the hard work. Again, WHY bother? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Dec 23 15:48:17 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 22 18:35:17 2015. The problem with hostler controls is that they are meant for short distance yard moves rather than passenger service. Also the RT-2 brake system on the PATH car is a lot more complicated than the AMUE brake system of the LIRR cars. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Dec 23 15:51:20 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue Dec 22 22:20:13 2015. It was not only the A and R magnets and the PA but PATH cars were wired for selective operation of the doors on individual cars which the R-16 were not. |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 23 18:26:09 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Dec 22 19:58:44 2015. Plenty of other examples of equipment extinctions:The LIRR arch roof MP54 The LIRR clerestory roof P54 The LIRR MP70 production Doubledecker The LIRR MP70T The St Louis ACMU's for NYC of 1950 The MN M-1A SEPTA Silverliner III, and maybe even a II, not sure yet BMT artic of any sort BMT C type |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 23 18:27:56 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue Dec 22 22:20:13 2015. Refresh my memory, do you have an R10 ? |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Dec 23 21:48:22 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by randyo on Wed Dec 23 15:48:17 2015. It was fun when I had to take an out of service F train from Smith/9th to CTL via the G line using the hostler. |
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Posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 03:44:05 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 23 18:27:56 2015. Concerning an R-10, here is yet another example of the foolishness that took place at TMNY. As you know, there are only two R-10s in existence. McGinty and Erik Garces, the new president at TMNY, had this scheme which they were pursuing with the Transit Museum in Brooklyn. TMNY would swap out their Low-V in exchange for either a redbird, an R-40 slant, or an R-10. The way they described it, negotiations were underway between TMNY and Brooklyn, but the outgoing president in Brooklyn would not commit to a trade because she did not want to tie the hands of the incoming president, according to what Garces told me. Later, he informed us that Brooklyn added another condition: TMNY would have to pay the freight for both cars, the Low-V and whichever one TMNY wanted.Garces told me that the Transit Museum in Brooklyn coveted TMNY's Low-V because it is a motor car, and Brooklyn needs another motor to their Low-V consist so it can handle inclines without stalling. Garces told me that Brooklyn was still kicking itself for having let another Low-V get away to either Shoreline or Branford, I forget which. So they wanted TMNY's Low-V. IMHO, they might as well do it. Only 207 or Coney can restore that Low-V. Right now it is derelict and non-functioning. You oughta see the inside of it, I have pictures. It's appalling the amount of neglect that has ravaged that car. TMNY has repeatedly proven that it cannot maintain its fleet. They lost the PATH black cars, and they lost the last surviving Queensborough Bridge trolley. Now they've added another car at very considerable expense and talking about building a shed for it while the BMT Q type they have rots outdoors under a tarp. They haven't even looked under that tarp in YEARS, let alone done any work on it. God knows what's underneath by now. Remember, that car was all wood. Not a penny was spent to restore it, as far as I know. Garces had another great idea: when I told him I might be taking woodworking courses, he wanted us to rebuild the Q type's wood structure, piece by piece, replacing whatever needed replacing. This kind of project would need ten woodworkers working for six months. Last winter, he had the idea to clear out the Low-V and touch it up in time for summer. The interior of that Low-V is in such bad shape that something like that could not be done with the limited staff and time the vounteers gave. We were only able to come up once a month, and that for only one day. That kind of commitment is way insufficient to restore the severe neglect inside the Low-V. And they constantly talk about electrification when there is nothing there that is capable of running from an external 600 volt source. The R-16's trucks are still water damaged from Sandy. To light the inside of that car, they have to plug an extension cord to an outdoor outlet and use add-on lights because the electrical components inside are still inoperable. So any talk about pairing PATH 143 to the R-16 is silly when the R-16 doesn't work and there is no electrification and no money for anything. |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Thu Dec 24 08:29:11 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 03:44:05 2015. If we can get a grant and a building for both a 911 display for the PA and outdoor storage, your dreams of woodworking classes would come to fruit if we can get 120 outside and get the rest of the shop in suitable for comfortable working environments which is halfway cleaned up. Don McClatchy RIP did a lot of work with little time. Retirement is little over 10 years for me so while I'm still young and mobile I'm going to enjoy the ride with you guys that make it up. I'm grateful and looking at the 6398 paint job done in a day, I'm very happy with the results and as long as we don't lose more volunteer interest will be optimistic even despite no third rail power. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 24 10:56:59 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by BLE-NIMX on Thu Dec 24 08:29:11 2015. Can you get scrap trucks from an R42 when they get rid of them when the R179's come in, and solve your R16 problem ? |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Thu Dec 24 13:40:50 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 24 10:56:59 2015. Thats the plan |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 24 15:19:05 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by BLE-NIMX on Thu Dec 24 13:40:50 2015. Well then, I had a good idea. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 15:24:06 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 23 18:26:09 2015. There are still 3 D type units in existence so the BMT artics are not completely extinct. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 24 15:30:10 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 15:24:06 2015. well ok, I was thinking of all the light-weight experimentals. |
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Posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 16:56:04 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 24 10:56:59 2015. They wanted to do that at TMNY but with R-32 trucks. That's probably why they recently painted the R-16 doors in blue a la an R-32. They said that Brooklyn had some R-32 trucks that they could donate to the R-16. The plan would have been to bring in a crane to lift the R-16 while the trucks were swapped out. I said, why not just get the R-16 trucks fixed and keep as much of that car as original as possible? Also, why a crane? Couldn't jacks be used? Bill Wall told me jacks could be used easily. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 24 18:40:52 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 16:56:04 2015. The IRM I am pretty sure got 2 pairs of "scrap" trucks with their R28's. They were sitting on them when I saw them in 2007, and "scrap" written on them. I assume the real pair was in the shops somewhere. |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Thu Dec 24 21:00:19 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 03:44:05 2015. With rem's bashing of the museum and it's volunteer force one question must be asked since it is clear that he has an axe to grind and that is this:What exactly transpired that led to the decision to have him removed from the group in the first place? You see "I" have those answers and more! This is not a game that our friend rem wants to play for he will certainly lose.I am being nice for now since our one time volunteer has chosen a public forum to discuss the museum's business and their decisions of which he is no longer a part of.Sadly,some people cannot admit their mistakes and that is sad to see,especially when it comes from a grown man who should have known better.rem,let's not play this game.You WIll lose.It's childish and honestly I have better things to do.The ball is in your court-Do you REALLy want to play this game? |
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Posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 21:42:31 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Thu Dec 24 21:00:19 2015. First of all, please identify yourself. Are you James McGinty? Second, regardless of who you are, you can say anything you wish here. The fact that you choose to see an open and frank discussion as a win or lose zero sum game says a lot about the mentality you guys had. There's a reason they can't attract too many volunteers. The fact is that the volunteer effort that I was part of was in fact a tightly run clique between McGinty and Pagan. They actually had a "secret-secret" volunteer group on facebook, which is beyond silly. This is a subway car restoration effort, not a top secret CIA project for crying out loud. It was like schoolboys playing clubhouse or something.Let's talk about my contributions: I donated two M stickers for use on the R-16, $200 out of my pocket. I asked for those stickers to be returned - they were not. I spent close to $100 on paint and tools and parts up there. I bought t-shirts from McGinty to donate to the R-16 restoration. One day I spent a whole day grinding the R-16's floor due to the incompetent job that was done re-laying the R-16 floor. The maturity level displayed during these sessions by McGinty and others was, to put it objectively, truly sophomoric. The truth is that I have it on good authority that a lot of money that was given to the museum was misappropriated and did not go to its intended goals. Maybe that's true, maybe not. But the fact is that nothing is going on up there because of the incompetency taking place there. How is it possible that Nancy Risely, the then-president of TMNY, actually asked me "Which car is the R-4?" This was the PRESIDENT of TMNY. She didn't know. That's like a mother not knowing the names of her children. But please don't give me this tough guy attitude, whoever you are. I am not afraid of the truth. If you wish to repeat lies and innuendo however, proceed at your own risk. I know how to deal with THAT, believe me. Better take that into consideration. |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Thu Dec 24 22:14:21 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 16:56:04 2015. I would go with jacks too but we'd still need 2 truck swaps as all 4 brake cylinders are leaking past their seals we can't get anymore since cylinder sleeving was reduced post overhaul (sure we can change cylinders and turn down brake cylinder pressures) but the motor nose welds in place for 115 HP motors are not present (pretty sure one can not swap 100 for 115s directly) if we are to use new motors without expense of rebuilding old ones we'd have to swap the old trucks to scrap vendor to offset costs. |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Fri Dec 25 09:30:53 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 16:56:04 2015. They said that Brooklyn had some R-32 trucks that they could donate to the R-16Are replacement trucks necessary ? The traction motors were Sandy damaged. Maybe only motor replacement would be simpler ? Bill Newkirk |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Fri Dec 25 12:28:35 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 21:42:31 2015. Awwww,someone is just angry because they are not welcome anymore.Trust me,I'm being nice here.Further,it's not easy to get thrown out of an all volunteer group,but you succeeded! Great job on that score! So now you are crying to anyone who might listen about all that you did-Boo Hoo,Poor me! Stop crying,grow up and be a man! YOU got caught out there and we dealt with you accordingly.In the end the punishment fit the crime.You did this and you did that-Blah,Blah,Blah.Others in the group did far more than you and did it without saying "Look at me and what "I" did.You spent this and you did that? That's nice.All well and good.Your contributions to the cause are duly noted.However,YOUR actions led to your removal from the group and nothing else.You couldn't see that nor admit you were wrong so you were removed-Plain and simple.Sorry to say it,but you are one butt hurt 40 something old man.Sorry to have to be the one to tell you but there it is. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Dec 25 12:34:55 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 21:42:31 2015. Sounds like homosexual activity to me. |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Fri Dec 25 12:42:14 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Thu Dec 24 21:42:31 2015. Think what you will;Sex had nothing to do with it.Besides,ren couldn't find it anyway. |
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Posted by ren on Fri Dec 25 16:11:51 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Fri Dec 25 12:42:14 2015. Judging by the looks of your wife, neither could you. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Dec 25 17:35:16 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Fri Dec 25 16:11:51 2015. Pic? |
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Posted by priya12 on Fri Dec 25 17:45:54 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Fri Dec 25 16:11:51 2015. Robert Edward Nowakowski:You are a very immature person. You were kicked out of a volunteer group after being busted for theft. What are you trying to prove? Those involved at TMNY are doing as best as they can with what they have. They aren't going on a message board to expose things, you are. Just knock it off. Rather than make yourself look like the sore loser, take your talents elsewhere. Go volunteer at Branford or Seashore. |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Fri Dec 25 17:55:56 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by priya12 on Fri Dec 25 17:45:54 2015. See,I was being nice here.I did not want to say anything here for this was not the forum for it.But since the cat is out of the bag now..... |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Mysterious Friday 1986 on Fri Dec 25 17:59:58 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by priya12 on Fri Dec 25 17:45:54 2015. Agreed.So sad that such a disgraceful individual such as him feels a need to display such school yard immaturity, especially on a holiday. Doesn't he have family to spend time with? |
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