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| R-38 Design (1368601) | |
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| (1368611) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Oct 2 10:34:22 2015, in response to R-38 Design, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Oct 2 09:16:56 2015. 4063 got the sign area of an R27/30. (supposedly from an R16, but it is the wrong shape for an R16.) |
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| (1368621) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Andy on Fri Oct 2 12:11:05 2015, in response to R-38 Design, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Oct 2 09:16:56 2015. The R38's most obvious exterior feature was the stainless steel fluting that only covered the bottom half of the car. The R32's have fluting covering the entire sidewall. |
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| (1368628) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Fri Oct 2 12:44:32 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Andy on Fri Oct 2 12:11:05 2015. Thanks, Andy, and though I do recall the fluting on the bottom half of R38s as opposed to the entire sidewall of the R32s I never realized there were differences re. the "piping" I alluded to in my post. I am sure there are other front/back end features distinguishing those "fleets" from one another to the |
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| (1368629) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Fri Oct 2 12:44:51 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by R30A on Fri Oct 2 10:34:22 2015. Thank you, R30A. |
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| (1368635) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 2 13:33:02 2015, in response to R-38 Design, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Oct 2 09:16:56 2015. I thought the R38s were the best looking cars NYCT ever had. |
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| (1368643) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Oct 2 15:47:00 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 2 13:33:02 2015. I grew up in Queens in a no car family. My father's family was from Brooklyn, so a typical summer weekend was a bus to the subway, a long trip starting with an old F train (R-9?) changing in Manhattan for a D train. Seeing those gleaming new cars come into the station (w/axial fans to boot) almost made me forget just what a long and hot trip that really was. |
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| (1368644) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 2 16:03:57 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 2 13:33:02 2015. I agree! I didn't shed one tear when the R-40 Slants went deep six. |
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| (1368690) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by TonyG on Sat Oct 3 03:43:49 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 2 13:33:02 2015. I think that the R-32s are the best looking (at least of the stainless steel cars). It's great that their retirement keeps getting pushed back. |
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| (1368700) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 3 08:41:34 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 2 13:33:02 2015. The first time I saw them was at 42nd St. on a rush hour Ethel on June 27, 1968. It was like, whoa! |
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| (1368704) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Oct 3 10:00:34 2015, in response to R-38 Design, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Oct 2 09:16:56 2015. Always wondered and this is the right thread to ask....Why did the R-32s outlive the R-38s? They're about the same age and both stainless steel. Was Budd that much better than St. Louis? St Louis had a wonderful track record. |
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| (1368706) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 10:31:53 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Oct 3 10:00:34 2015. I'm not sure the R-44 was so great. |
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| (1368707) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 10:38:36 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Oct 3 10:00:34 2015. It's called stainless steel. They wanted the R32 to be a R27 with picture windows. St Louis had a terrible track record in building durable car bodies that did not leak. |
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| (1368711) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Oct 3 11:31:54 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Oct 3 10:00:34 2015. The 38s had Low Carbon Steel Roofs. |
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| (1368713) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 3 11:39:33 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Oct 3 11:31:54 2015. Only their skin was stainless steel. The R-32s OTOH were all stainless steel. |
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| (1368714) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Oct 3 11:39:39 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Oct 3 11:31:54 2015. Now THATS a good reason |
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| (1368753) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sat Oct 3 16:42:41 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by TonyG on Sat Oct 3 03:43:49 2015. They looked better when originally delivered with the blue doors. |
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| (1368767) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 3 18:48:26 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by murray1575 on Sat Oct 3 16:42:41 2015. Although I always liked the R-32s, I never really saw any reason for the blue doors. The R-38s didn’t get them and I actually liked it better when some of the R-32s’ doors were painted silver. |
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| (1368771) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 18:57:13 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by randyo on Sat Oct 3 18:48:26 2015. To me, the remarkable thing about the R-32 is that despite their age, when one is recently out of the wash, it is still a damn good looking subway car. I don't think many of the older or for that matter new car series kept their looks, or will keep their looks over that long a period. |
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| (1368775) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 3 19:46:44 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by murray1575 on Sat Oct 3 16:42:41 2015. Here, here I'll second that. |
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| (1368777) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 20:05:13 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by randyo on Sat Oct 3 18:48:26 2015. I think they'd look much better with blue doors. They look too bland today. |
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| (1368781) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 3 20:36:37 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 20:05:13 2015. Back in the good old days, they made the CPW express dash look easy. |
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| (1368784) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:03:07 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 20:05:13 2015. Did the doors get stripped when they re did them at overhaul and changed the rubber stripping for the a/c? I remember the blue, but can't remember when it went away. |
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| (1368785) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 21:07:54 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:03:07 2015. GOH meant new doors. |
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| (1368786) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:17:33 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 21:07:54 2015. I was pretty sure the controller/motor assemblies were changed, I didn't realize they changed the whole panel. Thanks. |
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| (1368787) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Oct 3 21:28:29 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:17:33 2015. They changed the panel on the 60 foot cars. They did not on the 75 foot cars. They did on SOME of the redbirds too. Confusing:) |
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| (1368789) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:32:53 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by R30A on Sat Oct 3 21:28:29 2015. Just out of curiosity, did it vary by whether the overhauls were done in house or contracted out? (that would not apply to the 75', I think they all went out) |
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| (1368790) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 3 21:46:37 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:32:53 2015. Some of the R-44s were done in house. |
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| (1368793) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Oct 3 21:53:41 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 20:05:13 2015. IAWTPWhen I was a kid, before I new about the contract numbers, I used to give the various types of cars my own names. I called the R-32s "Silver Blue" because of the doors. (R-38s were "Silver Silver"). The first cars I knew the contract #s were the R-44s, as the first time I rode one on the F, I asked the M/M as he was boarding the train. Eventually, I found out the other contract #s from various books (Uptown Downtown, Under the streets of New York, etc.) |
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| (1368794) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Oct 3 21:55:01 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:03:07 2015. I started noticing 32s with silver doors in the mid-70s. I was pissed :( |
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| (1368795) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Oct 3 21:57:18 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 3 19:46:44 2015. I wonder if they would ever try to restore the museum pair (3352/3) to 1964 appearances. Obviously they can't do everything, but maybe bring back the blue doors (side and storm) and the great 60s TA logo :) |
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| (1368798) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by milantram on Sat Oct 3 23:18:21 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 2 16:03:57 2015. Neither did I. |
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| (1368800) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Oct 3 23:34:09 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Oct 3 21:57:18 2015. I believe that some of them might still have the original (ta) logo on the back side of the round plates that currently have that Pacman monstrosity on them. |
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| (1368816) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Oct 4 01:07:52 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 18:57:13 2015. The R-32 cars (Budd) were much better made than those which were ordered immediately afterward from other builders (mostly St.Louis Car). I think the current generation of cars will hold up well. Whether they can last as long as the R-32's remains to be seen. |
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| (1368821) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Oct 4 02:53:59 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 3 20:05:13 2015. I liked the blue doors too. From the side, even though 50+ years old and even without the blue doors, the R32s are still the best looking subway cars. |
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| (1368825) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Oct 4 05:56:18 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Oct 3 23:34:09 2015. On quite a few cars the pacman symbol is just a sticker, and if you peeled it away, you would see the M or TA logo.One thing I always appreciated with the R-38 rebuild was that they were given a version of the old TA (?) logo, showing the train under the NY skyline. It was less colorful than it was originally, but still good. |
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| (1368827) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 4 07:32:30 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Oct 4 02:53:59 2015. The interior door panels to the regular doors look their age. |
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| (1368829) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Oct 4 08:17:46 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by 3-9 on Sun Oct 4 05:56:18 2015. Speaking of that logo, as most of you know, that logo was applied to the R-29s and R-33s in their original state, before the Ronan silver/blue monstrosity. When the one pair (9010/1?) was restored to that livery, they originally had those logos, then they disappeared. :( I wonder what happened.And something else from the 60s. During the summer of 1967, I observed several R-17s that had been painted a bright red, and had the 60s TA logo applied. It looked great. But I have not seen one pic of those, I'm starting to think I imagined it. It seems that Messrs Testagrose et al were not that active in 1967. |
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| (1368862) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 4 17:10:41 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Oct 4 08:17:46 2015. And for some strange reason, the (ta) logos for the IRT tended to be red and black as opposed to the B division cars which had the proper red and blue. I wonder why they did that? |
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| (1368863) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 4 17:11:33 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by 3-9 on Sun Oct 4 05:56:18 2015. Yep ... the meatball logo went on the reverse side of the (ta) logo, so obviously they'd have to cover it with a "sticker" because they ran out of sides to paint. :) |
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| (1368873) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 4 18:22:30 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 4 17:10:41 2015. The original TA logos on the R-33 singles and the R-36s were red and black. I imagine that the reason the few R-17s that received them got the red and black was the TA probably felt that the blue might clash with the red exterior. I remember working the old Tower B in CIYd when I first saw the newly painted red R-17s with the TA logo. What was interesting about the red IRT cars is that the R-17 interiors were painted the same 2 tone blue and grey that they had originally whereas the R-12s through 15s had the R-36 interior paint scheme until the silver and blue Ronan repaints got that ugly puke green and grey interior.. |
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| (1368879) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 4 18:44:51 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 4 18:22:30 2015. Yep ... I remember those horrid colors. Got told by one of the guys at 207 paint shop that the city got a helluva deal on puke green institutional paint and deck gray from Navy surplus, and supposedly the paint for the els came from another surplus lot of paint at the time.When I came out as a conductor, they were still handing out the (ta) badges for that, when I moved up to motors, it was a meatball badge. I loved the old (ta) logo ...  But this just wasn't right. Heh. 
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| (1368889) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Oct 4 20:41:43 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 4 17:10:41 2015. Interesting, that I didn't notice. Probably because a) I was only 8 years old and b) I usually saw them from a distance. |
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| (1368895) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Oct 4 21:23:14 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Oct 4 20:41:43 2015. Or my excuse, I almost never got to see the #7 until my teens, despite the HUGE impression the World's Fair cars gave me. |
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| (1368898) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 4 22:13:26 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 4 18:44:51 2015. I'll bet those Navy Surplus were laughing their asses off after unloading that pistachio green paint. |
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| (1368900) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 4 22:17:39 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 4 22:13:26 2015. Whenever crap leaves the warehouses, the foremen always smile. :) |
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| (1368901) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by northshore on Sun Oct 4 22:54:27 2015, in response to R-38 Design, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Oct 2 09:16:56 2015. Although the World's Fair picture window cars were a dramatic departure for the TA, I think the PATH PA-1 cars were really awesome.Although the TA tried to make the slant R-40's designed by Raymond Lowey the next dramatic design, they were duds.They then hired Sunburg-Ferer, who deigned the PATH cars to modify the 40's. they then designed all subsequent MTA subway and commuter cars for many years. |
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| (1368916) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 5 07:13:40 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 2 16:03:57 2015. Well, I liked those as well... But the R38s more. |
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| (1368917) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 5 07:52:34 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 3 21:17:33 2015. The current R32 doors are stainless steel. |
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| (1368918) | |
Re: R-38 Design |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 5 07:59:49 2015, in response to Re: R-38 Design, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 4 18:22:30 2015. I didn't like the gray or "puke green" interior look on the SMEEs, but I did (sorry for the heresy) like the exterior Ronan look. In 1978 or so, during a school holiday (I was 10), I saw some R27/30s (didn't know the difference back then) with Ronan exteriors but an interior paint job similar to the Redbird look- except the doors were more orange-ish red than burgundy red.This struck me as an attempt to defeat graffiti- it didn't last long- but suddenly, I liked the RR much more than I did previously. I also remember on the same trip that the 60th Street tunnel had fluorescent lights. |
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