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| Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? (1364263) | |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:55:16 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Sep 3 16:20:48 2015. If they don't want to accept deliveries at night, then they can fight the traffic. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Sep 3 17:32:06 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:55:16 2015. likeI said, you paying the salaries of the evening shift? Not a realistic idea. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 18:25:43 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Sep 3 17:32:06 2015. If they don't want to bother with nighttime deliveries, let them sit in traffic. People can take the subway. NYC is one place where I don't see traffic as a problem. It's hopeless to not have traffic, and there are ways for virtually everyone to avoid it if they want to. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Sep 3 19:58:02 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Sep 2 16:12:37 2015. France, UK quickly come to mind. They do have trains that have them too. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 21:20:59 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Sep 3 19:58:02 2015. Do or don't? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 00:58:22 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:54:41 2015. In theory, the rail capacity could be added later, but I suspect that the state didn't want to wait for the FTA to pay for the transit component of the bridge, and for the studies to finally see what watered down option would be chosen. Mind you, if you're going to put transit, light rail is probably the better option given that there is unlikely to be a loop to the Hudson Line from the bridge, and it's easier to secure light rail rolling stock capable of climbing higher grades, so it's just easier to make the engineering work and get away with serving downtown White Plains and the office parks along I-287 with the hope of connecting with the New Haven Line.FWIW, if you want commuter rail from Rockland County to Manhattan, you'd probably be better off paying CSX some cash to permit the West Shore Line line to operate, and to build a connector from that line and the ancien Erie Lines into any future tunnel that gets built into Manhattan. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 02:07:03 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 21:20:59 2015. Both. :-)For example, much of the S-Bahn stock in Germany does not feature bathrooms, while the double deck stock used for Regio services is more likely to feature bathrooms. As another example, in the UK, the Electrostars* form seven classes with rolling stock gear from long distance near intercity levels of service to near subway loading standards, and the availability of bathrooms will vary with the medium distance units having them, and the metro-oriented units lacking them. In other words, even in first world countries, one is very likely to find rolling stock without bathrooms in mainline service, and it's not the worst thing in the world. *The Electrostars are a third rail and overhead catenary capable trainset made by Bombardier, and given that the oldest units are contemporaries of the M-7s, I'm going to argue that the British ended up with the best of BBD, and we ended up with the worst. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Sep 4 09:39:54 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Sep 2 16:59:27 2015. Garbage is not in a hurry. Going by way of Selkirk is not a problem.A lot of stuff that moves by rail is low value and not time sensitive. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Sep 4 10:01:16 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Sep 2 13:49:36 2015. Why would they lift a container off a ship in Newark or Elizabeth, put it on a train, move it 30 miles or so to Queens and then lift the container again to put it on a truck?Wouldn't the extra lift from train to truck use up any time saved avoiding traffic? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:14:06 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:00:22 2015. I still don't see how it makes everything more expensive for the RR. Please explain |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:18:07 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:13:51 2015. Heh, you're still looking at things on a city scale. For Long Island, "the city" as you're referring to is the ONLY way to access the rest of the main land (aside from 2 full time cross sound ferries and 1 seasonal one). If you take a place like NYC and match it to most other cities, the city is Manhattan and could possibly be expanded to include satellite cities like Downtown Brooklyn, Exchange Place/Newport, and Newark. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:23:03 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 3 14:18:50 2015. Because in a region as populace and dense as ours, there will always be people using all modes that are available to them. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:50:06 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:12:37 2015. In 2013, 50,423,765 people used JFK airport. That's an avg daily use of 138,147 people, although we all know there are peak travel seasons where the usage is above that number. Even if we run with that average, that's 5,756 people an hour, although we know there are peak hours blocks for air travel, so during those times, the number of people will be above the average. Let's assume an average of 1.5 bags per person (admittedly a total guess on my part but from personal observation a conservative figure), and that's 8,634 additional bags per hour avg (remember, that's just an average, meaning it'll actually be above that during the peak travel times). Doing the same for Newark gives us 3,997 people carrying 5,995 bags, and for LGA gives us 3,050 people carrying 4,575 bags. So you want to add, during the hours surrounding peak air travel hours (since we need to leave space for that 1-3 hour check in process), over 12,803 people carrying 19,204 bags per hour to our mass transit system? The number of people aren't really my concern, but their large luggage is. And then you expect the family of 3 with bags for mommy, daddy, and junior to all hop on the airtrain to the train to the subway and then hoof it to their hotel?I do it. I travel solo. I usually pack light, but even when packing heavily (like when I went to Colombia for 5 weeks or Mexico for a month), I've done it, and I've done it for all airports. N23->LIRR->Airtrain. G->A->Airtrain. N23->LIRR->NJT->Airtrain. N23->LIRR->Q48. IT IS NOT EASY. What mass transit plan are you going to propose that gets me from Bed-Stuy to JFK on a one seat ride, or even just 2 seats? From any point on Long Island not in walking distance to a LIRR station? From JFK to every single part of Manhattan? From JFK to Fairfield County in Connecticut? Taxis are needed. It never can be and never will be all bus and all rail. No matter how much it is tried, there will always be the need for taxis and private vehicles. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:58:04 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:12:37 2015. Oh and I forgot to add, what I suggested is NOT for the purpose of making it easier for people to drive to the CBD. It is to give an alternative route for those crossing through SI traveling to Queens, Long Island, and New England. This alternative frees up space on the Gowanus/BQE and LIE west of the Van Wyck for vehicles that have no choice but to use that route when crossing the region. I'm not a highway buff by any means, I hate driving outside of my duties for work (I'm a bus driver) and the traffic here is miserable and never ending and yes, it will always be that way. But our region has grown immensely in population and next to nothing has been done to cope with it on any front (mass transit or highway). We need a massive building out and improvement of our mass transit system on corridors previously thought to be without merit, but you'll also see that we need an improved road network. It's not so that there's free flowing traffic (that will never happen). It's so that traffic can still at least move rather than come to a complete halt. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:59:51 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 00:58:22 2015. Agreed 100% on all things said here. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 15:08:40 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 15:58:28 2015. TZB has little to do with the area I'm talking about. Vehicles forced to use the Gowanus/BQE and the LIE west of the Van Wyck will see little if any benefit from the new TZB, but would be benefited greatly by a route I previously mentioned (Bay Ridge/Linden Blvd). I'm shocked that I'm here promoting a highway, but I've gotten old enough to realize that as the population grows, ALL of the options must grow with it. To say only transit should grow and highways shouldn't exist is childish. I'm not here saying to pave the city over, to turn all transit corridors into highways. I'm dying to see a proper city wide bike lane network (There's no reason bike lanes can't exist under the elevated portions of the BQE and Gowanus) and widely expanded mass transit of all reasonable types, but I've matured enough to realize that the need for more highway space has also come as part of the city and regions massive growth. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 15:33:03 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Sep 3 16:53:38 2015. Cedar HillPut it this way. CSX's main access from the west is via the old NYC Mainline via Selkirk and the West Shore. CSX could easily fire up Cedar Hill right now via Selkirk and old B&A Mainline and down the line from Springfield into New Haven. The fact that they haven't bothered to do so now *with their own money* is probably indicative of low value of an intermodal yard in that area. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Sep 4 15:57:02 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 3 14:21:01 2015. you're missing the point, apparently. as much as we want to see improved and expanded transit infrastructure, roadways, even in new york city, must be brought up to modern highway design standards. there will always be people who cannot feasibly use transit but must traverse the boros, and pass through the boros, by car and truck. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 15:59:16 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 02:07:03 2015. Wow, that's pretty bad. In the US and Canada, anyways, the Stupidliners are the only full FRA heavy rail trains not to have bathrooms. The push-pull SEPTA sets have them, but they keep them locked. The FRA should fix this by making a rule requiring all FRA-regulated trains to have bathrooms before they can leave the station. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 16:01:28 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:14:06 2015. It's that much harder to do ANYTHING when you're doing it squished under an elevated roadway. Maintenance, construction, you've got more posts in the way, etc. And everything would get dirtier and you're more likely to have trespassers, it's just not good in any way. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 16:39:15 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:50:06 2015. Most of them are already using mass transit. If they're coming into NYC and staying in the city, it's an even more obvious case to take AirTrain (or a bus from LaGuardia). Newark should be better served with an extension of PATH there, and it might make sense to build some tracks for TriboroRX to serve Newark as well via the Cross-Harbor Tunnel when all that gets done.I've flown out of JFK and Logan, and I live in CT. They were actually easier than Hartford or Providence, since I was able to take mass transit to each (SLE>MN>4/6>E>AirTrain for JFK and Amtrak>Blue>shuttle bus for Logan), and for flying transcon, it's sometime about the same time as a 3-hour connection somewhere in the middle versus a direct flight from a big airport. What I love about Seattle, for example, is the light rail. Easy way to get downtown. Parking at LIRR stations may be an issue, I know that for MN and the T, a lot of stations don't have enough parking or support long-term parking. That's something that needs to be addressed for people using commuter as a feeder for Amtrak or airplane trips. God, you threw me an easy one. Depending on where in Bed-Stuy you're in, you can hope on G to J or A to J or just J, and that gets you to Jamaica. People are just lazy. NYC's mass transit is the whole reason that NYC is awesome, and why people can live in such a dense environment in NYC and whatnot, because you can actually GO places easily with little friction. Once you're in the system, you can transfer your way to any other place in the system. Fairfield county is easy. If it's good weather, go E to GCT, if it's crappy weather go E to 4/6 to GCT. And who cares how many seats it is? At some point in most trips, you have to get on a bus shuttle to get a rental car, and then in and out of the airport, and around the airport, in another airport for a connection, etc. The subway isn't any more difficult than any of that, and it shouldn't matter how many people you have, as they will each have their own backpack and roller bag if they are traveling with a full set of gear, less if they aren't, and it shouldn't be any harder than moving through any other part of the airport system. 5.5 MILLION people a day ride the subway, a few hundred thousand bags don't affect it now, and an incremental few thousand more aren't going to hurt it. Or even be noticed. Taxis serve some function on late nights when the subway is running ridiculously long headways, or to a few places that you can't easily get on busses or subways, but even those are very, very few and far between. People only need private vehicles if they live in the city and are leaving the city on a car trip. If they're going via plane or train, again, mass transit. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:10:27 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:58:04 2015. I'd rather see the demand managed, rather than the supply increased. Massive improvements to mass transit and a far steeper congestion charge system would be two things that together would reduce the amount of people trying to drive around in NYC. Unfortunately, it is necessary for people from LI to get off of LI, so no matter what, that's traffic. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:31:44 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 15:08:40 2015. The BQE appears to serve no purpose except for local deliveries in Brooklyn and Queens or people in Queens/Brooklyn who want to leave NYC. Traffic from LI to NE would go over the Throgs Neck, traffic from LI to NJ would go over the Verrazano Narrows, traffic from NE to NJ will soon be able to use the new TZB, and truck traffic goes GWB. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:33:35 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 15:08:40 2015. Also, we aren't saying highways shouldn't exist or that they should all be torn up (there are a few that should, but they are few and far between), but rather that they should be fixed at their current size for the indefinite future. Any additions in NEW capacity should be transit, bike, etc within NYC. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 17:40:54 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:23:03 2015. there will always be people using all modes that are available to them.So what's wrong with making the private automobile mode less available? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 17:47:29 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Sep 4 15:57:02 2015. I agree that a good road is better than a bad road, especially for those who really need the roads like commercial vehicles, emergency vehicles, and whatever other essential vehicles I'm forgetting. Maybe a little leeway for those who are disabled, too.If you wanted to build an exclusive highway for these vehicles for example, so that if I'm in a CBD and caught in a fire the fire trucks will come in a fraction of the time, I would consider. But there should be no encouragement for someone to drive into the city when they can use public transit, all or part of the way. There certainly shouldn't be roads closed to commercial vehicles in the city, as there are. Put in congestion pricing, make it cheaper to go from Long Island to New Jersey via the Throgs Neck rather than via the 59th St bridge for example, then take a look around at the resulting traffic patterns and demands and improve highways accordingly. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:50:30 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 15:33:03 2015. The economic fall on their face when you turn a 100 mile trip into a 300 mile trip. The Selkirk Hurdle pretty much kills most rail freight in New England. NJ to Worcester might work, since it's not as horribly circuitous, but it would still be a lot shorter to go up the NEC.At this point, the most viable option for a relatively quick fix would be to establish feeder barges to Bridgeport, New Haven, New London, Davisville, and Boston that can handle 20's, 40's, and 53's. I don't know where the barges would actually dock in New Haven and Bridgeport, but presumably someone could figure that out. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:53:07 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by merrick1 on Fri Sep 4 10:01:16 2015. If it were a direct rail lift in NJ, it might have a shot of working. Primarily, it would be for domestic boxes and international boxes coming from LA/Long Beach. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 17:54:25 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 16:39:15 2015. Transit-fan that I am, in all honesty, if I'm landing at LGA and JFK at 11p.m. or midnight, I'm inclined toward a taxicab to Brooklyn even with just my carry-on. I know my transit options but at that point you're talking at least an hour difference in travel time. JFK maybe less because of AirTrain connections, but definitely LGA.Of course, if taxis weren't an option (for anyone), I'm sure there'd be a lot more transit service and the difference would be less than hour, even at night. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 18:04:46 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 14:50:06 2015. I agree about having taxis from airports. People arriving from out of town are doing so off all sorts of circumstances. Yeah, for the ones who just flew up from Florida with one bag they can use public transit, which should be ready for them, but for the ones who barely speak English and came halfway across the world with lots of stuff, they should be able to just find a cab, show the address on a piece of paper and sit back.Airports should be served by all options. But I still hold that private vehicles should be discouraged from rather than encouraged to enter a CBD. So really once our theoretical international traveler has arrived in the city for the first time and found where he is staying, he/she should switch over to transit. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 18:06:20 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by merrick1 on Fri Sep 4 09:39:54 2015. It's horribly inefficient and expensive to haul it up and back down, and it means more of it sits in yard in NYC and stinks and clogs up the rails than if it could be brought out in smaller trains to sit in a CSAO yard in North Jersey.NYC trash is the single most egregious example of how ridiculous the Selkirk Hurdle is, although it must still be cheaper than putting them on the barge and loading them on a train in NJ. As a CT resident, I'd like to see that garbage come up here to a series of new, ultra-modern trash to energy plants that would replace our existing trash burners and quadruple the capacity so that we could handle NYC's garbage too, with the ability to then rail haul the ash out of state to landfills, but people up here would freak out if we did something that logical. If you read the TRAINS article about it, they mentioned that it gets ripe after a certain amount of time and has to start moving. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 18:09:51 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 00:58:22 2015. Heavy rail via the Harlem Line makes the most sense, as you hit downtown Westchester and GCT, and it appears that line has the ROW for full quad-tracking all the way down to GCT. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 18:11:19 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 17:54:25 2015. They do need to keep the frequencies up for transit during the night. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 18:12:24 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 18:04:46 2015. There's an app for that. Google Maps can do transit directions too. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 18:42:37 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 18:09:51 2015. Not sure heavy rail can make those steep grades |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 18:47:37 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:31:44 2015. If you're on the LIE, it's faster to take the Throggs and GWB than the VZ, even if you're heading south. I've done it both ways multiple times over and that SI/Brooklyn traffic is murder. And yes, for there are tons of people for whom the BQE is the closest route to exit the city or move between boros and that is part of the reason why it is so backed up. It's very simple, the current infrastructure, of all types, is inadequate for the current population. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 18:51:14 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:33:35 2015. It's debatable, but given the mass of people and the variety of commutes/travels performed region wide, I doubt mass transit can effectively address all of those needs. Build what is effective where ever possible, by all means, but we need to acknowledge that it is very possible that there still may be a need for an additional highway given the population and the variety of trips |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 18:53:51 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 16:01:28 2015. Fear mongering. The rail work obviously should take precedent and be completed either prior to or in conjunction with the construction of anything above it (park, highway, bike lane, light rail, etc). For what it's worth, I bet you wouldn't have mentioned any of these "risks" if I had said to deck it over with a park |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 18:58:20 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 15:59:16 2015. "Wow, that's pretty bad."I fail to see what's wrong with that. Given the types of service that the S-Bahn and English units face, you'd have to argue for BART or WMATA to have on board bathrooms... |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:00:38 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 17:40:54 2015. Toll the shit out of Manhattan access for private single occupancy vehicles whose drivers have options all you want but why choke out the people for whom mass transit is not an option or the commodities for which rail freight is not an option. Remember, there are plenty of folks who are required to drive into Manhattan, especially those working trade jobs like plumbers and electricians, and time sensitive freight like certain foods. Build out all the mass transit and charge more for entering Manhattan, but if there's still a need, even after all that, for a new highway, you'd still object? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 19:28:13 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 18:42:37 2015. Heavy rail should be able to handle around 4%. The TZB is 1.2%, so no problem there. Sure, freight isn't going to get up that without a ridiculous number of locos, but 1000HP EMUs shouldn't have an issue. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 19:37:35 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 18:51:14 2015. The only place mass transit can meet all needs is for travel within NYC, beyond that, yes cars are necessary for some things. But better mass transit will free up more room on the already extensive road system in the region for cars to drive around. And congestion tolling will discourage people from going near NYC. There should be AT MINIMUM a $10 fee to cross into Manhattan (including I-95), and more during times of peak congestion. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 19:38:18 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 18:53:51 2015. I'm not a fan of the park idea either, unless it was for like one block or something. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 19:39:24 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 4 18:58:20 2015. Those aren't heavy rail. They are metros. Different animal. FRA heavy rail should require bathrooms, as should the equivalent in other countries (although the line is somewhat blurred for them, as they don't have the absolute separation that we have with FRA heavy rail, non-FRA heavy rail, and light rail). |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:51:20 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 17:10:27 2015. I agree with you 100% about implementing and encouraging people to use mass transit (where ever feasible), but you can't outright ignore the need for additional highway capacity if it persists even after all the transit improvements |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 19:52:12 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:00:38 2015. Freight has to move into Manhattan via truck, but the cost of a $10 toll is nothing for a delivery truck. Sure, there are repair people. But with more tolling and better mass transit reducing demand, this existing highway infrastructure should be MORE than adequate for Manhattan. I would oppose ANY new highway infrastructure other than re-configuring ramps or taking lanes and streets out of general use for dedicated bus lanes or light rail. Turning some city streets into transit malls would also be a good idea, but they would have to have a lane for local truck deliveries and repair people, and of course NYPD/FDNY could use them. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:53:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 4 18:04:46 2015. Agreed 100%. Again, I'm not trying to encourage personal SOVs into the CBD by any means. My concerns are for those doing trips that would fall outside the scope of feasible mass transit |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:54:42 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 18:12:24 2015. Dude, get over it, mass transit is not the answer to everything. Even if Joe First timer gets in from Karachi and can use Google to find his way, he's still got 2-3 large suitcases with him. You juggle that shit on a crowded train, up and down stairs, etc |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 20:09:28 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:51:20 2015. Adding highway capacity just makes more traffic and more congestion. In NYC, it's self limiting. Only so much traffic can be stuck in traffic. Make bus lanes and roads around it all, and let the traffic be stuck. There's also nowhere to physically put more highway capacity, so what's there is there, and that's that. The only big need that it doesn't address is traffic through NYC, since NYC is a major choke point, but there's not much you can do about that either. Unfortunately, the trans-Manhattan and Cross-Bronx are, combined, the single largest bottleneck in any major highway system in the country.What does need to be fixed in the greater metro area are the absolutely insane parkways like the Taconic. That thing needs to be fully grade separated from all the other roads like every other normal highway. Those roads are completely nuts, and are from a bygone era. In the process, I would fully grade separate the Harlem Line. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Sep 4 20:10:32 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:54:42 2015. It is within the City of New York. Everywhere else, not so much. |
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