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| Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? (1364263) | |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Aug 28 13:10:02 2015, in response to Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by geoffc on Fri Aug 28 07:23:35 2015. I've ridden HBLR and except for the street running sections, it moves as quickly as expected. So not sure what you're talking about. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Aug 28 15:13:58 2015, in response to Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by geoffc on Fri Aug 28 07:23:35 2015. Queens Quay StreetcarFWIW, you did ride a streetcar. It's basically a bus on tracks with better acceleration and more capacity than a regular bus. In most cases, it's limited to whatever the speed of the local street is, and TTC sucks at signal pre-emption, so you're going to get something that isn't that fast. What is the point of light rail again? Modern streetcars in North America have been treated as a development tool versus an actual form of transit to replace heavily used bus routes as done in Europe, while light rail basically functions as de facto high frequency commuter service that's cheaper than building out an equivalent BART/WMATA/MARTA/SkyTrain and with less of the headache of trying to figure out high efficiency commuter railway services (S-Bahn). We basically took good German concepts and morphed them to create their half-assed American equivalents. I have seen HBLR through Jersey City and it crawls And yet, once you're south of LSP and north of 2nd Street, it's faster than anything NYCTA runs. And the Kinki-Sharyos out accelerate NYCTA stock. When was the last time that NYCTA had rolling stock that hit 55 mph on level track in service with 3.0 mph/s acceleration rates? |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 28 15:20:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Aug 28 15:13:58 2015. In most cases, it's limited to whatever the speed of the local street isSo is "light rail" when it runs on the street. So are general-railway-network street tracks. Modern streetcars in North America have been treated as a development tool versus an actual form of transit to replace heavily used bus routes That's a waste of money. If they can't supplement bus routes, that renders them useless. And yet, once you're south of LSP and north of 2nd Street, it's faster than anything NYCTA runs. And the Kinki-Sharyos out accelerate NYCTA stock They don't out-accelerate the newer NYCTA cars that have AC traction. They only had the advantage in the past when they were the only thing on FTA rails with AC traction. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Aug 28 15:29:36 2015, in response to Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by geoffc on Fri Aug 28 07:23:35 2015. Light rail always carries the potential to be more flexible than buses because it really doesn't matter how long the vehicle is or how many vehicles are attached to each other to provide a service. This is because when it makes turns the wheels are locked in on the rail. The driver doesn't really have to look behind to see if the back of the vehicle is clearing the sidewalk or anything or worry about whether his turn is too wide or too tight, etc. So you can have one driver for hundreds of people rather than just one driver for dozens.Yes light rail can be like bus in many ways (and in fact some services, like line F on the MUNI in San Francisco are served by both trolleys and buses at the same time) but there are ways light rail can be better. This thread may interest you. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 15:46:43 2015, in response to Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by geoffc on Fri Aug 28 07:23:35 2015. Light rail is the best of both worlds where heavy rail isn't possible. You can do street running downtown, and then get off the streets and run fast on a dedicated ROW. That's what Portland's MAX does anyway. The street running parts are slow, but then you get to the dedicated ROW. Sitting in traffic is slow the whole way. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Fri Aug 28 18:48:37 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 15:46:43 2015. Well ET, just come to LA County where I live and you can the point of light rail in clear Technicolor. The Freeways out here are parking lots, tempers are short, it takes oodles of time to go five or six miles at a time, and God help you if you venture out between 7:30-10:00 am or from 3:00 to 7:00 pm.We have four or five light rail lines now that alleviate having to drive the car on those damn freeways when one has to go to work, serve on jury duty or go and play with the grandkids. The Gold Line very close to where I live has been extended and I'll be able to take my two mile walk within a month and grab that train and go to LA without having to grit my teeth at cars in front of me that don't seem to move. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by milantram on Fri Aug 28 19:06:52 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Fri Aug 28 18:48:37 2015. IAWTP.The growth of LRT and the Los Angeles subway system has made it possible for me to go anywhere I want to go entirely by public transportation--a sacrilege not thinkable even 25 years ago. And it's fast. (Yes--I'm using the word "sacrilege" here, on purpose.) Heck, pretty soon I'll be able to go all the way to the Orange Empire Railway Museum by rail-borne public transport. And the beach, too! |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Aug 28 19:12:29 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by milantram on Fri Aug 28 19:06:52 2015. not so fast peter !it has not been finshed yet and there is no weekend trains scheduled lol lets hope so however |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by milantram on Fri Aug 28 19:24:51 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Aug 28 19:12:29 2015. But the beach, yes! |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Aug 28 19:26:44 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by milantram on Fri Aug 28 19:24:51 2015. see you soonwhen it opens hope they have restrooms too lol |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 20:47:54 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 28 15:20:08 2015. That's a waste of money.Huh? It's not like they're taking brand new buses out and scrapping them because they built the LRT. Bus routes can be restructured to feed the higher capacity LRT such that buses are only eliminated by attrition due to old age. They don't out-accelerate the newer NYCTA cars that have AC traction. They only had the advantage in the past when they were the only thing on FTA rails with AC traction. Heh. About as much veracity as the rest of your post. which is to say none. R160 Datasheet from NYCSubway.org says 2.5mph/s for an R160's acceleration. Kinki-Sharyo Datasheet from the horse's mouth says 3mph/s for their acceleration. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 21:30:25 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Fri Aug 28 18:48:37 2015. You seem like you're disagreeing with me? That was pretty much my point exactly. LA probably has worse traffic than Portland, but Portland's isn't exactly fun. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 28 21:31:57 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Fri Aug 28 18:48:37 2015. That sounds more to me like the point of elevated heavy rail. Enough of LA's light rail is elevated and should have been the higher-capacity mode given what was spent on it. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Aug 28 22:04:17 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 15:46:43 2015. That's what we have in Denver, although there are four heavy rail commuter lines under construction now. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by zac on Fri Aug 28 22:12:52 2015, in response to Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by geoffc on Fri Aug 28 07:23:35 2015. I rode the SF Muni N line out to the end a few months ago and while underground it was very fast, above ground it was slower than the bus we took back on the other side of Golden Gate park. It really couldn't go even as fast as the cars around it, and it was very slow around the winding route. It took a very long time to get to the beach. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Fri Aug 28 23:05:46 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 21:30:25 2015. Not at all ET. Strange you should say that. I think we are on the same wave length on that. Do you live in the Los Angeles area? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 29 00:30:59 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 28 21:31:57 2015. Actually, given LACMTA's rolling stock, their three car sets (261ft) aren't that far from what Paris Metro's (246ft) train set length, so the claims that it needs "higher capacity" are a bit specious. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 29 00:49:16 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by zac on Fri Aug 28 22:12:52 2015. Considering that from 9th to 19th Aves it is on raised up PROW the T/Os are slacking IMHO. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 29 00:58:04 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 29 00:30:59 2015. Lest we all forget, LA went to LR after the disastrous experiences building the (Red Line) subway--the massive cost overruns, methane explosions, (someone forgot that LA floats on oil/gas pools--visit the La Brea tar pits for evidence), and delays, subways were outlawed. However, the LR has high level platforms and widely spaced stations so other than the specific rolling stock it is fairly rapid transit. As to grade crossings, see Chicago's Brown and Pink lines at their outer ends. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 29 05:52:33 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 29 00:58:04 2015. You are exaggerating, just like the politicians exaggerate. No methane explosions were associated with Red Line construction. Maybe CA ought to not be run by madmen so that the methane could be mined?As to grade crossings, even the L train had one at 105th Street, which was closed in 1973. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 29 22:34:39 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Aug 28 15:13:58 2015. I was on a Q train that hit 64— oh, wait, level track. Never mind. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 30 13:59:22 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 29 22:34:39 2015. When was that ? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 30 14:50:27 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 28 21:31:57 2015. Intersting allusion to elevated light rail. It has been discussed on various threads on this forum, the theory that elevated lines will never again work in NY even though NY had many elevated lines in years past. The existence of elevated light and heavy rail rapid transit lines in ares that never had them like LA seems to put a few holes in that theory. It seems to me that if auto crazy LA can tolerate elevated transit lines that it never had before, NY can certainly tolerate esthetically pleasing and relatively noise abating structures in certain of its areas and that even goes for Manhattan. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 30 15:05:09 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 20:47:54 2015. It’s amazing that the PCC cars both surface and rapid transit types developed in the 1930s had superior acceleration and deceleration rates than allegedly more modern rolling stock. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 30 16:27:41 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 30 14:50:27 2015. Manhattan streets can use the shading, that's for sure. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 30 16:29:40 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 30 15:05:09 2015. That's not typically the case. Lots of newer AC-traction LRVs have better acceleration, but the signaling systems impose too-frequent penalty braking, making the journey painfully slow and imposing a jerky ride. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Aug 30 16:50:59 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 30 13:59:22 2015. lol! |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:01:34 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 28 21:31:57 2015. I'm not familiar with LA's system, but the whole point of light rail is interoperability with street running. There are cities where it's not practical or desirable to build a full grade-separated ROW everywhere. Portland could probably use a tunnel for some of it's MAX trains, but the street running is quite nice for hopping on and off easily in downtown. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:02:47 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Aug 28 22:04:17 2015. Yeah, and that model works well. Denver's commuter rail is such a nice idea, with nice 25kV/60 electrification, except that they bungled the whole thing by buy Philly's sh*tty Stupidliners. What a bone-headed move there. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:07:18 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 30 14:50:27 2015. You can't just plop an L in front people people's apartments and businesses that has never been there before. Unfortunately, some of the L's were torn down, and if they were want service on those corridors again, they will have to tunnel down, and drop the big bucks.You can build them if you have a road that's a gazillion lanes wide to stick it in the middle of, or a commercial wasteland like SEA-TAC Washington. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 30 18:15:38 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:07:18 2015. BART plopped els in various places in the Bay Area. Few follow city streets, but others slice right through residential neighborhoods. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 30 18:25:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:02:47 2015. What MU car would you have sent there ?On Denver's RTD map, I can't tell what is light rail and what is electric commuter rail. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 30 18:49:58 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:07:18 2015. You can't just plop an L in front people people's apartments and businesses that has never been there beforeIt's okay to do that with a highway though? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:41:27 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 30 18:15:38 2015. When? Not recently, I would assume? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:41:30 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 30 18:49:58 2015. Not anymore. We realized that was a horrible idea too. But realistically, nowhere in NYC could support a highway without scorched-earth eminent domain. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:50:09 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 30 18:25:08 2015. I would go loco-hauled, with ALPs and Comet-style cars but if they insisted on MU cars, I'd probably go with a new design, or take the Stupidliner design, have a company that's not Hyundai Rotem build them and put bathrooms in them, thereby fixing their problems. Still a bad idea, since they look like SEPTA and no other agency should want to look like SEPTA. SEPTA is hell on earth, and no one should want to have any association with them.The M-8 cars are superb in nearly every way, but they are way too expensive and heavy for a system that doesn't need the third rail capabilities that MN needs. I'm not sure how much cost and weight you'd cut just by removing the DC side of the power system and leaving them running off of 25kV/60 overhead. As for loco-hauled, with 4 cars a 7500HP locomotive should be able to really get them moving. NJT's trains are slow, but they're moving 10-12 MLs with a single ALP. They should use one ALP per 6 cars. FasTracks is the heavy rail part of it, the rest is a mix of light rail and stupid BRT lines. It's a shame that they put junk Stupidliners on there, as otherwise the system looks incredible, with all brand new electrification, new high-level platforms, the whole 9 yards. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 21:02:58 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:50:09 2015. This shows the various lines:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/FasTracks_2008_Map.jpg The Gold, North Metro, and East lines are using Stupidliners, while the Northwest Rail will be using some sort of DMUs, according to some of their documents, presumably the Nippon-Sharyo cars that the UP Express is using. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 30 22:53:22 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:50:09 2015. NJT's trains are slow, but they're moving 10-12 MLs with a single ALPThat's why their average speeds are 10 mph slower than in the past. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 30 23:43:47 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 30 18:15:38 2015. well, actually they are building an extension of the Fremont line as far as Warm Springs--the area of the Tesla, former NUMMI, previous GM Assy Div auto plant. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 30 23:46:36 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 30 16:27:41 2015. Manhattanites think differently. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 30 23:59:57 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 30 23:46:36 2015. All those tall buildings kinda prevent sunlight from hitting the street aside from two days out of the year known as "Manhattanhenge."
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Aug 31 00:00:14 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:02:47 2015. What's wrong with the Silverliners, aside from the bathrooms? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 00:18:50 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 30 23:46:36 2015. Which Manhattanites? Are the people up in Inwood pulling their hair out over the existing IRT (1) elevated train, or further south in Harlem at 125th Street? How about the former NY Central north of 98th Street?If the els were not "replaced" by subways further south, "Manhattanites" would not be screaming for their removal. Don't presume that snooty NIMBYs speak for the entire city. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 31 00:20:34 2015, in response to Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by geoffc on Fri Aug 28 07:23:35 2015. Basically buses have a certain level of capacity and ridership.And subways - rapid transit have a certain level of capacity and ridership. Light rail systems generally are for situations where "something more than" a bus system is useful due to capacity and ridership issues, but also "something less than" a subway is needed. Light rail systems generally are supposed to "fill the gap" in the approaches to solving the problem of moving large numbers of people effectively to and through an urban area. That is the general idea. Of course there are ideas concerning bus rapid transit, ease of construction, route alignment and creation, costs, costs, and costs and related right of way separation issues. Mike |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Aug 31 02:43:51 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 18:02:47 2015. except that they bungled the whole thing by buy Philly's sh*tty StupidlinersIt's not so much that RTD made the decision to buy Silverliner Vs, but that their PPP partner that won the contract made the decision *for them* as a part of the bid process. I suspect their lower bid may have come from offering a lower price by ordering supplemental Silver Vs versus some buying a small number of boutique trains from some other supplier. FWIW, Denver Transit Partners, the winning bid included Hyundai Rotem as a partner. The losing bidders, Mountain-Air Transit Partners and Mile High Transit, included Siemens and Bombardier as their respective business partners. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Aug 31 02:45:04 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 30 18:25:08 2015. On Denver's RTD map, I can't tell what is light rail and what is electric commuter rail.That's the point. The service on both networks should be frequent enough so that there's minimal difference to the end user. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Aug 31 03:02:16 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:50:09 2015. I would go loco-hauled, with ALPs and Comet-style cars but if they insisted on MU cars, I'd probably go with a new design, or take the Stupidliner design, have a company that's not Hyundai Rotem build them and put bathrooms in them, thereby fixing their problems.Given that they're looking at 15 minute headways for the airport branch with some degree of single tracking to cut capital costs, going with an electric locomotive and cab car arrangement is probably the least ideal solution possible. It screams multiple unit, but given the lack of them on the American marketplace, it only leaves the Silverliner Vs which aren't *terrible* units or the M8s which aren't terrible, but again, were made by a firm partnering in the bid process. They'd probably would have been better off just paying Stadler to import FLIRTs, but allegedly, UP was demanding FRA grade stuff on separate tracks for their use of their ROW. Mind you, I've personally been on a FLIRT in Germany, and they're, IMHO, the best multiple units in the world, and I don't think that there's any regional train in the United States capable of 0 to 62 (100 km/h) in 30 seconds. This is a first generation unit:  This is the latest model upgraded for the latest UIC crash regulations: 
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Aug 31 07:22:41 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 00:18:50 2015. Because those people realize the #1 is virtually a necessity and there is no replacement. Same with the Metro North viaduct. OTOH, just try building a new el in Manhattan, or with most places in NYC. You'll find the takers for an el to be in the minority. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 10:29:44 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:41:30 2015. actually, considering the fact that the biggest city in the country has an almost totally useless (i.e., not up to the task of efficiently moving motor vehicles of all types into, around and through the city) limited-access highway system, there should be second thoughts given to the way everybody lambasted robert moses for his highway proposals. a real west side highway? cross-manhattan expressway? hell yes. basically, zeeing "the world as it is rather then the way it should be" thing. this, from a train-bus-el-subway-lrt-ferry-slidewalk luvin' screwball. but new york city highways are despicable. |
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