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| Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover (1361022) | |
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| (1361022) | |
Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jul 27 22:42:45 2015 OTChat thread: Governor of NY along with Vice President, Unviel the new LaGuardia Airport (1304083)Governor Cuomo's announcement: Governor Cuomo Unveils Vision For Transformative Redesign of LaGuardia Airport Full-size renderings on Flickr: LaGuardia Renderings My comments (some of which may be OT [particularly my first five points] so feel free to ignore those) First, this is radically different from previous designs and thus was unexpected by me. Second, it appears that they will be tearing down all three of the historic hangers west of the CTB (Terminal B). Third, it appears that parking will be in multi story parking garages that are well integrated into the overall design at the extreme east and west ends of the new unified terminal as seen in the renderings. Fourth, how vehicles will circulate within the very tight area between the GCP and the new unified terminal will be interesting, considering that there has to be access to and from the parking garages, an ability to circle around, and access from the neighborhood via those vehicle bridges over the GCP. Those bridges seem to go right into the new unified terminal in the renderings. It's not clear how you will ramp down to grade level. Fifth, the report, which can be found here, states that: "The Panel recommends that the Port Authority conduct a thorough analysis of the number of parking spaces needed to ensure an adequate level of parking such that the surrounding neighborhoods are not used as parking for the airport." That is odd. Because the only reason I've parked in the neighborhood instead of on-the-property was to save money and not because parking wasn't available on-the-property. If they want to "ensure...that the surrounding neighborhoods are not used as parking for the airport" then they should price the on-the-property parking more reasonably - in other words, offer a lower-cost long-term parking option. But only providing two parking garages close to the terminals doesn't suggest that. Sixth, the official word on the AirTrain that Governor Cuomo proposed: "The panel supports the Governor’s call for this AirTrain option, and the new LaGuardia’s unified terminal will be designed to incorporate a future AirTrain terminal." Translation: it's not part of the LGA Redesign Project yet. It's still just a dream. And the official word on an Airport People Mover (APM) to connect the various parts of the redesigned airport: "A transit option to move passengers more quickly within the airport is recommended by the Panel, such as a tram or monorail, to be included as construction moves forward. This transit option would also better integrate the Marine Air Terminal (Terminal A) with the rest of the airport housed in the new unified terminal." Translation: an APM is not yet part of the LGA Redesign Project, and if it ever does, it may not necessarily be part of the LGA AirTrain system. At JFK, the AirTrain is both an on-the-property people mover (the Howard Beach branch, the airline terminals inner loop, and the airline terminals outer loop [served by both Howard Beach trains and Jamaica Station trains]) and an off-the-property mode of mass transit (the Jamaica Station branch). Seems to me that a similar system is worth strong consideration at LGA. The AirTrain should travel from the 7/LIRR to the airport property and make stops at all the airline terminals, including Marine Air, and also at the parking garages and the new proposed unified car rental center. In the rendering, note that the AirTrain appears to end at a single station at the Central Arrivals/Departures hall and no other APM is shown. |
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| (1361032) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Jul 27 23:51:49 2015, in response to Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jul 27 22:42:45 2015. If you look just to the left of the tower, the hangars are still there. The aircraft parked on the ramp are sitting in front of the hangars.(note the lack of jetbridges) Their outward faces have been renovated to match the new scheme.Don`t want to sound too much like Wallyhorse but here it goes, I think the AirTrain should be extended down the Van Wyck from Jamaica. A stop at Willets Point for connection with the 7 and LIRR. The Central terminal building with inner PeopleMovers(both direction inside security and both directions outside security). And finally it`s really going to be a tight squeeze trying to extend the AirTrain the to MAT. The AirTrain will have to dip below Runway 4-22 and there is not a lot of space. Plus the Fire Station location will also have to be considered. The Lurker`s Guild Aviation Division |
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| (1361033) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jul 27 23:54:05 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by trains61 on Mon Jul 27 23:51:49 2015. If you look just to the left of the tower, the hangars are still there. The aircraft parked on the ramp are sitting in front of the hangars.(note the lack of jetbridges) Their outward faces have been renovated to match the new scheme.That's what I initially thought. But they are too close to the GCP. And they seem to instead be the location of the western parking garage. I could be wrong. |
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| (1361034) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by northshore on Tue Jul 28 00:00:06 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jul 27 23:54:05 2015. You are never wrong. That's why people are jealous and envious of you. |
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| (1361036) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Tue Jul 28 00:21:31 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by northshore on Tue Jul 28 00:00:06 2015. You said it, not me. |
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| (1361041) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by MTA T on Tue Jul 28 05:36:46 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by northshore on Tue Jul 28 00:00:06 2015. l0l |
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| (1361048) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Jul 28 08:16:09 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by northshore on Tue Jul 28 00:00:06 2015. LOL |
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| (1361049) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Jul 28 08:20:54 2015, in response to Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jul 27 22:42:45 2015. US Air now American has left MAT only Delta remains and very few flights out of MAT most go to Chicago.But talking to the workers at Cibo Express Delta is staying at MAT and holding on to their slots/gates there where American gave them up (or actually back to Delta). US Air which was the host airline for C has moved out completely with the merger of flight ops with American so Delta now hosts three of the four terminals A/C/D with American the host airline for Central Terminal (B). Oh the aerodrome beacon is still by MAT don't think they will move that. |
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| (1361050) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Jul 28 08:54:41 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Jul 28 08:20:54 2015. Ok... |
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| (1361051) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Jul 28 09:25:08 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Jul 28 08:54:41 2015. The biggest problem with LGA, which none of the grand plans come to grips with is that it has 2 7000 foot runways that intersect at one end. Extending the Astoria line was really the best transit choice, but no one had the stomach for the political fight. |
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| (1361066) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 28 14:20:59 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jul 28 09:25:08 2015. I agree about the Astoria line extension. So, what is the precise route of the proposed AirTrain now? |
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| (1361084) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 28 18:12:20 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jul 28 09:25:08 2015. spot on. |
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| (1361094) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Tue Jul 28 20:43:33 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jul 28 09:25:08 2015. The biggest problem with LGA, which none of the grand plans come to grips with is that it has 2 7000 foot runways that intersect at one end.That's not a problem they were looking to solve. There were other problems and that's what they're looking to solve. |
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| (1361222) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 29 23:04:02 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 28 14:20:59 2015. Up the GCP from Mets Willets Pt station |
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| (1361228) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jul 30 00:04:04 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jul 28 09:25:08 2015. From a previous message:"The biggest problem with LGA, which none of the grand plans come to grips with is that it has 2 7000 foot runways that intersect at one end." Why do you think that is a problem? How would you go about fixing this problem? Considering the various limits - money, manpower, resources, established land patterns, and the dealings with the various city, state and federal agencies involved - what would you consider priorities to deal with first, second & third? What goals would you attempt to work on - first, second & third? Mike |
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| (1361233) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 30 08:13:38 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Michael549 on Thu Jul 30 00:04:04 2015. When both runways are in use planes waiting to takeoff have to wait for landing flights to pass. Also, since the runway are roughly perpendicular, wind and weather conditions can drop you to one active runway which is terrible from a delay standpoint. The number of flights scheduled pushes the limits of what can land and takeoff on that runway configuration on a good day. The slightest problem and the delays get really bad.Given the location, It is not realistic to think of 2 sets of parallels which would greatly increase throughput. The best you could get would be a possible third, built out into the bay, which would not solve all of the traffic issues but would provide some added flexibility. To accomplish this would require enormous political push, considering that it allows additional flights, the pushback from residents would be enormous. The real rub is the challenge of how to make it better in a meaningful fashion. Given the political realities we may have to settle for improvements that may not be the best possible, but are the best attainable. A direct link would be best, but Airtrain 2 is attainable. Another runway would be huge, but small gains from better turnoffs, gate access, ramp space,and taxiways will help a little. Incentivizing the use of larger aircraft helps a bit, but there is a tipping point where service can not be offered economically to many cities in a large(er) plane. The airport plan is about servicing the passenger base better than at present, and the existing terminal structure fails in that regard. I would like t see the transit link more tightly integrated into the design, rather than as a future addition. I would also love to see the 2 Airtrains connected, but passing the Kew Gardens Interchange would be a big challenge. |
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| (1361234) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jul 30 08:24:11 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 30 08:13:38 2015. When the pope comes to the US in September he should make a side trip to LGA. Its long overdue for the last rites.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1361237) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Jul 30 08:37:17 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jul 28 09:25:08 2015. Extending the Astoria line was really the best transit choice, but no one had the stomach for the political fight.An even better choice would be to close the airport altogether and turn it into a bus and boat terminal. This is my opinion and as such is fact. |
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| (1361239) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jul 30 08:53:02 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 30 08:13:38 2015. Runway 4/22 while bi-directional 22 is only one allowed landings under 1/5 mile advisability13/31 13 only ILS/ALS 31 has conventional VASI 13 is limited on landings with greater than 1/2 mile visibility. Only 13/31 has any overrun protection, well 4 does have Flushing Bay and has been used... |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Jul 30 09:10:40 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jul 30 08:53:02 2015. Who are you? |
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| (1361241) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 30 09:11:09 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jul 30 08:53:02 2015. I think 22 used the GCP once along time ago......They try to avoid 13 as a landing choice, but you can't always.... |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jul 30 09:41:39 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Jul 30 09:10:40 2015. He is Lou. From Brooklyn. |
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| (1361246) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Jul 30 09:58:07 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jul 30 08:24:11 2015. Great quote, Larry! |
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| (1361248) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Jul 30 12:42:46 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jul 30 08:24:11 2015. IAWTP. |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jul 30 15:55:16 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jul 30 08:53:02 2015. 1/5 mile advisability should be 1/2 mile |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jul 30 15:55:27 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Charles G on Thu Jul 30 09:41:39 2015. That's me... |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jul 30 20:48:52 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 29 23:04:02 2015. Above the highway and overpasses like it does over the Van Wyck, or alongside? |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jul 30 20:49:06 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 29 23:04:02 2015. Above the highway and overpasses like it does over the Van Wyck, or alongside? |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jul 30 21:28:39 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by trains61 on Mon Jul 27 23:51:49 2015. Actually, what you propose sounds reasonable. Willets Point to me would be an absolute must especially as that area is about to be built up in the coming years. |
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| (1361300) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jul 30 21:33:11 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jul 28 09:25:08 2015. Of course no one had the stomach for it because they are scared it would be used against them in a future round of commercials by an opponent.Still think the best extension of the (N) is to The Bronx anyway to where it would terminate at Jacobi Medical Center, which currently has NO subway service within reasonable distance and could include transfer points (noted previously) to the (2) (5) at East 180th Street and the (6) at Elder/Westchester Avenue. It would give Queens riders looking for the Bronx a new option that does NOT require them to go into Manhattan and probably would work better than any (G) to the Bronx extension that has been previously proposed. |
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| (1361494) | |
Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 1 18:59:28 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jul 30 20:49:06 2015. Most likely above. The only flight path such a system would need to worry about is the approach to RWY 04. A route from Flushing wouldn't encounter that one. |
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Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 1 20:25:06 2015, in response to Re: Redesign of LaGuardia Airport - AirTrain and an Airport People Mover, posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 1 18:59:28 2015. But the other proposed route to the Astoria line would? |
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