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NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 18 16:59:27 2015 Bursting |
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Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon May 18 19:26:45 2015, in response to NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 18 16:59:27 2015. Will contactless payments really make that much of a difference if the machines are broken? |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 18 19:32:21 2015, in response to NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 18 16:59:27 2015. Investment, shminvestment. They were all in a hurry to divest when they first took over from private companies. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 18 23:02:57 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by 3-9 on Mon May 18 19:26:45 2015. contactless machines are not as prone to dust/dirt contamination because the is not slot toput the card through. In my experience of the Cubic marketed system in use in the SF Bay over some 7 years, the failure rate is lower than the previous generation mag stripe fare media. The failure rate was also lower than what I experience using mag stripe cards both in Chicago and NYC. Just anectdotal evidence. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 07:39:23 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 18 23:02:57 2015. Also perps cannot jam contactless machines so easily. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 07:45:27 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 18 19:32:21 2015. Investors thought that they could make money when they built the IRT and the BMT, but if I recall, it was another communist mayor who broke that up, profits *are* immoral you know. So now no investors. You get what you sow.Would investors take over the system today, the fare would have to go to about $5.00. (That is simply and up to date 5c) You are looking at labor contracts, power costs, major infrastructure upgrades, and major new construction (ala the famous Myrtle-Fifth Avenue system). Or you can elect and support politicians with the drives to do this. This way the fare will only go up to $3.00 but the rest of your taxes will go up accordingly. But politician come and go and bend to the gripes of the people paying the money without riding the train. At least with investors, they will put their money up in hope of a return. ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Outside the Box on Tue May 19 10:33:17 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 18 19:32:21 2015. They could never catch up with maintenance and rebuild costs. The 5 cent fare and the Depression led to deferred maintenance on IRT and BMT. By the time the 50's rolled around (after labor and material shortages of WW2 and the disruptions of Korean War), the original IRT and BMT were 50 years old, and in need of an overhaul anyway. Simultaneously, they needed to lengthen many local station subway platforms. Furthermore, the 6th Ave Express was quite pricey. There was more deferred maintenance in the 60's and 70's. The TA never got control of construction and labor costs, and the City nearly went bankrupt in the 70's.The myopia and self interest of City Hall and TA leadership did the subway in twice. Will it do it a 3rd time? |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 12:31:28 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Outside the Box on Tue May 19 10:33:17 2015. They could never catch up with maintenance and rebuild costs. The 5¢ fare and the Depression led to deferred maintenance on IRT and BMTThat's all due to government interference. Then the government takes them over and things are already in the handbasket to hell. That's what they get for forcing the private sector out. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 13:14:14 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 07:45:27 2015. citizen investors--those of us who vote for bond issues to be repaid from general or specific levies--fund transportation projects. The difference is that we expect the "dividends" to be a better place to live/work rather than quarterly checks. But, as you point out, the cost cannot be covered from the farebox, much as fuel tax alone does not cover the cost of the entire auto use infrastructure. So, again, the citizenry have chosen to subsidize both auto and transit use from general and special taxes (extra sales tax earmarked for highway and transit projects for example).Full farebox recovery including investments for long term maintenance would give us transit fares at nearly the current Federal hourly minimum wage. The idea that a worker should spend 2 of potentially 8 hours each day merely earning the cost of travel to/from work is economicinsanity. This is even worse for any of the "xero hours" workers who are becoming a majority of the 'service sector" workforce. Bottom line, the "standard of living" in the US has been eroding for all but a few specific segments of the society such that too much money is being accumulated by the 1% while the working class loses more purchasing ability. This is unsustainable. Either the overly rich will share voluntarily or we will revisit previous violent restructuring of national economies--never a pleasant business. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 13:38:41 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 07:45:27 2015. Would investors take over the system today, the fare would have to go to about $5.00. . . if the government does not deregulate. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue May 19 13:55:51 2015, in response to NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 18 16:59:27 2015. There hasn't been substantial investment in mass transit since the IND was built, and even that system remains unfinished to this day. La Guardia realized this and started to shrink the system down as soon as he could. Its cheaper to build a road than to build a subway line. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 14:00:29 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by Mitch45 on Tue May 19 13:55:51 2015. There hasn't been substantial investment in mass transit since the IND was built. . . which means that the public sector shut down the investment. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 14:12:54 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 13:38:41 2015. Sure, give to wallymart for a dollar and bad will. Then see all titles become zero contract part time on whim and no benefits--buy your own SocSec. See how long that lasts. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 14:16:06 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 14:12:54 2015. "No benefits" is another result of over-regulation. Back before government micromanaging, businesses attracted employees by offering benefits. Don't ignore history, now. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 14:21:54 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by Mitch45 on Tue May 19 13:55:51 2015. more enron accounting. auto commuting is only cheap because so many of the costs are not accounted. Your personal car maintenance, insurance, garage space/on street parking permit, don't show up. No one totals up the lost value of land wasted on freeways, parking lots, the former orchards and other food producing land now under tarmac of sprawlburbs, and the public health costs of auto accidents, pollution generated disease clusters, and of course the DOD cost of "protecting" oil shipping from our freneies in the Middle East. You maylove your "freedom m,achine" but if you had to pay in user fees all of the indirect costs, you would park it and get on transit. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 14:32:01 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 13:14:14 2015. "The idea that a worker should spend 2 of potentially 8 hours each day merely earning the cost of travel to/from work is economicinsanity. This is even worse for any of the "xero hours" workers who are becoming a majority of the 'service sector" workforce. "Some workers pay $15.00 per trip for their daily commute to NYC. $30.00 a day. (Martz Bus from Pennsylvania) "Bottom line, the "standard of living" in the US has been eroding for all but a few specific segments of the society" Yup, ever since Obama took over. "Either the overly rich will share voluntarily or we will revisit previous violent restructuring of national economies--never a pleasant business." Most of the rich do share in very many venues. But if government raises the taxes too high, the rich will simply leave. They leave New York State, they can leave the United States. You see corporations doing that already. The top 5% of earners pay 90% of federal taxes; the bottom 50% pay less that 1% of the taxes. LION PLAN FOR TAXES: 0 - 70,000 $ = 0% tax 70,000 - 1,000,000 = 15% tax 1,000,000 - 4,000,000 = 20% tax > 4,000,000 = 25 % tax There are NO EXEMPTIONS OR DEDUCTIONS of any sort whatsoever for anyone. ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 19 14:45:47 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 14:12:54 2015. Good post. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 15:51:08 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 14:16:06 2015. Heh. Businesses offered benefits because there was a wage freeze because of this thing called a "war." Since they couldn't offer a better wage than the other guy, benefits like health care were used to differentiate better employers from the usual suspects.Now that the war ended, those benefits have been under attack ever since. And oh yeah. Whose idea were those "benefits?" UNIONS. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 15:59:51 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 15:51:08 2015. No, the benefits did not originate with unions. The kinds of people that were being attracted were not union types, but managment and administrative.Once they had such "benefits" the workers, rightfully enough wanted them too. As for the Walmarts of this world, they are in favor or a higher minimum wage, and provide benefits for more of their people than other retailers do. Walmart is big and can afford these tactics to drive out competition. K-Mart in Dickinson closed because they could not afford the wage scale out here, as did the Bonanza restaurant. They had business but no workers. The Dairy Barn is only open in the morning, after that, only the drive-up is open. Can't afford more labor. ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 16:10:44 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 15:59:51 2015. Still comes down to that wage freeze during WWII. And as to the business failures out your way, perhaps if they paid more and charged the proper "boom prices" you'd be able to get a custard now. K-Mart. LOL |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Tue May 19 16:14:37 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 15:51:08 2015. It's all about moderation. Yes, at the turn of the 20th century we needed unions to keep people from being hurt/killed on the job and actually earn a decent wage. Now though, it goes too far. When a simple one stop subway extension is 2 years late and billions overbudget something is wrong.For the record, there is way too much overhead, too much useless management, and of course, corruption as well. Everyone needs to take a cutback, or else NY will face a crisis. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 16:16:26 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 16:10:44 2015. This is exactly true, many more businesses are opening all of the time, and they seem to have no problems with labor. Clearly the two that closed did not want to bother to continue.The Chinese restaurant is growing, they keep adding more space and more workers, and their prices keep going up. Still they are all filled up, so it is as you say. ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 16:40:40 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 16:16:26 2015. Welcome to Boomtown. You'll know that you're there when you get one of these on the main drag ... :)
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 16:45:23 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 15:59:51 2015. the benefits did not originate with unionsCorrect. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 16:46:03 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by shiznit1987 on Tue May 19 16:14:37 2015. New York already faced one of those a few decades ago. Guess who had a major part in bailing them out from that? The unions.And yes, the need for unions to ensure those protections did begin to dwindle as they convinced lawgivers to provide government policies to make things safer. Agreed there. But now we have the double-barrel retreat from all that as business evades union representation AND they're busy scuttling those protections by labeling them "communism" and removing the funding. Unions may need to come back with the way things are going. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 17:00:09 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 16:46:03 2015. LION agrees for the need of unions, especially in the case of larger enterprises. But there is much to be said for 'right to work" states. Nobody should be "forced" to join a union, especially since unions are such big financial supporters of the wrong political party.That is why I am no longer a member of the Nurses Association. And that was supposed to the a professional organization rather than a union, although in may states they do function as a union, albeit that the two entities are a little bit separated. ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 17:25:27 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 17:00:09 2015. LION agrees for the need of unionsPublic sector unions? Not even the Dems wanted those in the beginning. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 17:35:54 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 17:25:27 2015. Yeah, but what they found was HUGE cost savings in negotiating with thousands instead of all those droids marching in and out of the HR departments wanting a raise. Also avoided a lot of lawsuits from those passed over while the idiot in the next cube got a raise. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 17:36:51 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 17:00:09 2015. And in those "right to work" states, many of those who work 40+ hour weeks get paid so poorly that they have to live on food stamps. Guess who pays for that? |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 18:50:29 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 17:36:51 2015. but remember, food stamps exist to help reduce the storage costs of the surplus annually purchased to keep the (stupid because they vote Republican) farmers from going out of business (which originated under FDR and brought socialist lefties like an uncle of mine to DC to "manage" crop allotments because expecting farmers on their own to make smart choices as to which crops and how much to grow has NEVER worked well.Rail content. Once the class 1s got rid of the competition, they have had the luxury of foircing grain shippers to use RR preferred cars (either owned or leased by the RR rather than private leasers which don't earn as much for the RR). Those of us with some memory of hiostory know that it was the Grange which was a major force in creating the ICC to stop the rapacious rate gouging by the RRs. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by WillD on Tue May 19 20:42:03 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 13:38:41 2015. What regulations would you repeal to ensure a private organization can take over without requiring it to raise fares? |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by WillD on Tue May 19 21:09:48 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 19 07:45:27 2015. Investors thought that they could make money when they built the IRT and the BMT,If by "investors" you mean those who bought the city's bonds, because the subway lines were built as what today would be a DBOM with city money. Investors didn't have anything to do with their construction other than buying bonds, same as today. but if I recall, it was another communist mayor who broke that up, profits *are* immoral you know. And it was a latter-day right winger who jacked the fare up to make the subway lines "profitable" so he could drive NYC's deficit into the stratosphere building highways. So now no investors. No, same financing plan as a century ago. Unless you subscribe to the fantasy that the BMT or IRT were shelling out their own money for the capital expenditure on subway lines, which again was not the case. Hell, back then the city even used a primitive form of the sort of tax increment financing used to build the 7 train extension. Would investors take over the system today, the fare would have to go to about $5.00. The operating expense per unlinked trip for the subway network is $1.79 as of 2013. If you're saying the private operating company would require a more than 100% markup to make operating the subway worth their while then it's a very good thing we had that "communist" mayor to create the IND so NYC wasn't hamstrung by such highway robbery. At least with investors, they will put their money up in hope of a return. Why? They never have in the past. Again, you're reinventing history to make it fit your narrative. The city paid for the subway lines, the BMT and IRT merely operated those lines. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 23:23:35 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by WillD on Tue May 19 21:09:48 2015. because the subway lines were built as what today would be a DBOM with city moneyThe city created that money? LOL, no they didn't. DBOM implies that (for example) the IRT designed the subway. But like DBOM, the government forced artificially low fares in order to run at really low fare recovery ratios. Didn't work then and doesn't work now; at least they didn't think of POP! |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 23:36:21 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 18:50:29 2015. And it's back again these days (the rate gouging, or "can't ship" prioritization) with a vengeance. Alas, fixing it would be communism so hit up the taxpayers to make ends meet instead. Can't get in the way of those dividends and bonuses. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 20 00:25:47 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 23:36:21 2015. Why I honor The Octopus as a great muck raking novel. The sad history is that because the robber barons were such total crooks we got the ICC which soon got too arthritic to allow orderly competition. By the time we were kids the RRs were such hellholes of rigidity that brillint business people went elsewhere. Meanwhile courtesy of Ike trucklers were eating their lunch. By the time of Staggers (which went way too far the other way), we were saddled with a number of badly conceived mergers and the healthy less stupid RRS walking away from the basket cases. Think about the Rock Island fiasco. By the late 90s we have two large systems west, two east, and two Canadians midwest including undoing the PC mistake but massively in NS favor. Forty years ago the National Farmers Organization was trying to help farmers survive -- they fielded their own grain hoppers, which now the big guys don't want to use. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 20 00:47:34 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 20 00:25:47 2015. And now GATX owns a good number of them, sitting out here parked on sidings rusting away because nobody wants to pull those in their oil consists. But hey, the invisible hand turns out to be the old Mafia black hand with the exception that none of it gets spread around anymore. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 20 01:42:17 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 20 00:47:34 2015. now, now, let's not bring in the wiseguys. But, Messrs, Gould (older and younger, Drew, and the Vanderbilts as well as the Garretts are all chuckling at current shenanigans. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by WillD on Wed May 20 03:34:27 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 23:23:35 2015. The city created that money? LOL, no they didn't.No, the city did create that money. The city created the conditions for the free market to thrive within its borders and in exchange it receives tax revenue to ensure the maintenance of the conditions which create the superior market. The money wasn't created in Scranton, it wasn't created in Belfast, it was created in New York City because of the infrastructure which supported the economy, and that infrastructure was built with tax revenue. That's how it's worked since the Romans, that's the most frequently glossed over part of Adam Smith's treatise, and it's something you'd have to be a libertarian moron totally disconnected from reality to deny. But then we already knew that about you. DBOM implies that (for example) the IRT designed the subway Really? Surely you're not THAT ill-informed, right? Sorry, I forgot, you're detached from reality, so in that case I suppose some explanation is in order. The only instance of a DBOM being operated by the firm that did the engineering is HBLRT, and then Washington Group went out and created their own operating arm to do that. Usually it's Fluor, Parsons, or some other company which does the design, then another member of the consortium, Balfour, Bombardier, Herzog, or some other group which handles the operation. I know Parsons-Brinkerhoff claims to have designed some parts of the early NYC Subway and they certainly weren't part of either the IRT or BMT. But like DBOM, the government forced artificially low fares And the BMT and IRT agreed to run the service with that fare, so they had terrible business models. Clearly they were incapable of providing the service at the rate the market would bear, so they deserved to go under. Why didn't the invisible hand of the market apply to their demise? Or does that only apply to things you don't have an emotional attachment to? |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 20 03:42:50 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by WillD on Wed May 20 03:34:27 2015. To Olog, the invisible hand is that of "God, capitalist" otherwise known as "Republican Jesus". Government is Satan, Banks are the godhead and the Jersey Central's bones are the Stairway to Heaven with Jimmy Page doing a 15 minute drum solo. :) |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 20 03:44:40 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 20 03:42:50 2015. To put that all into a little more perspective of the Texas mindset that Olog has grabbed the leg of, Mike Judge. Creator of "Idiocracy" also created "Beavis and Butthead" which is a sage of what happens when you grow up on TOO much heavy metal and headbanging. It results in brain damage and there you are. :) |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed May 20 05:56:49 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by WillD on Wed May 20 03:34:27 2015. HBLR is probably the best known example of DBOM, even if it is not a typical one. Certainly, I first heard the term in connection with that system.Whether the IRT or BMT could have continued providing service at a "rate the market would bear" is unknown, since they were prevented from raising the rate at all. The IRT wanted a seven-cent fare, and I suspect the riding public would have paid it readily. And as I've said before, when the subway contracts were signed - the original for for the IRT, or even the Dual Contracts in 1913 - there was no reason for anyone to anticipate the kind of inflation that would soon hit the U.S. dollar. From before the founding of the United States to the time of the Dual Contracts, "one dollar" had always meant about 1/20 of an ounce of gold (or the equivalent in silver), and "five cents" meant 1/20 of that. For that to change significantly after the contracts were signed was like changing the meaning of the words in the contract after they were agreed to. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by WillD on Wed May 20 07:07:50 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed May 20 05:56:49 2015. It doesn't matter what happened in the economy, if they managed their business so badly that they did not write the contract to allow for currency fluctuations then they deserved to go out of business. You can't claim private enterprise was successful in running NYC's transit while simultaneously excusing their egregiously inept business practices because the dollar lost value.We're damn lucky the IND and city takeover came along. Far more of the el network would have been torn down if the IRT or BMT had been acquired by National City Lines and converted to bus routes. Regardless of whether they could have made a profit in the 1920s with a 7 cent fare, that wasn't going to last. The only way they turned a profit in the postwar period was when Moses imposed a draconian fare increase and began deferring maintenance to make them "profitable" so he could float more bonds, but even then they didn't turn a profit. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed May 20 07:20:41 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 14:21:54 2015. I would take mass transit if(1) there was an LIRR stop in Melville, where I work. (2) it would be possible for me to travel eastbound from the Far Rockaway line stations instead of changing at Valley Stream or Jamaica for eastbound trains. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed May 20 07:31:07 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 16:46:03 2015. New York already faced one of those a few decades ago. Guess who had a major part in bailing them out from that? The unions.Yes, by agreeing to cut their pay and benefits. Maybe the state, the MTA board, and the Unions need to sit down again and agree how much to cut management and labor to get things under control. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 20 07:47:54 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 19 17:25:27 2015. Yeah, but... Some of our public services are so big, and impersonal, that a union might be needed to make a dent in them. Subways for example are not really "public sector" they are railroad companies that happen to be owned by a government. Teachers? well if school districts treat workers as a disposable commodity, then yes, otherwise no. It is the big and impersonal that converts public sector into union fodder.ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 20 07:50:26 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 17:36:51 2015. That is simply not so. WE are a right to work state with the highest wages in the area. You are complaining countermen at McDs with skilled workers. McDs was never intended to be full time work, and if that is your full time employer then you have deeper problems.ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 20 07:53:57 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 20 00:47:34 2015. GATX is owned by Warren Buffet. Are you comparing him to a robber baron?ROAR |
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Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 20 08:08:51 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks-bursting at seams, posted by Mitch45 on Wed May 20 07:20:41 2015. The LIRR has always had a psychological aversion to Babylon trains stopping at Valley Stream. The Atlantic Branch is 0.8 miles shorter and means a faster getaway from Jamaica too, rather than crawling to Union Hall Street. They could alternate stopping there and at Lynbrook.Yet they think nothing of making Babylons stop at St Albans, Kew Gardens, and Forest Hills, which ought to be served by more West Hempstead thru trains and Long Beach trains. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 20 08:34:00 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 20 07:53:57 2015. Well, Buffett is a lib. |
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Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 20 08:35:25 2015, in response to Re: NYC Rail networks—bursting at seams?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 20 07:50:26 2015. Mr. KNOS works at Mickey Ds? |
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