|
|
| Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly (1351660) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 2 of 13 |
||
|
| (1351730) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed May 13 07:55:12 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 07:50:47 2015. SEPTA service between Trenton and Philly is out as well. I imagine that the River Line will be very crowded today.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1351731) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed May 13 07:57:16 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 13 07:52:32 2015. Broadway : We haven't heard anything from you regarding the big derailment in North Dakota last week. You're our man on the frontier and we rely on you for timely information.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1351732) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 13 08:03:46 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 07:50:47 2015. If that train crashed at 106 it looks like a lot of the equipment got off easy. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1351733) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 08:03:51 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed May 13 07:55:12 2015. Definitely, especially with people who need to get to Trenton to take NJ Transit trains to New York.Megabus and the Bolt Bus ought to also be packed today (and the rest of this week) for those looking for NYC. |
|
|
| (1351734) | |
BIG Derailment in North Dakota last week |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 13 08:06:00 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed May 13 07:57:16 2015. Not much to report.This was on a sub division line between Minot and Fargo, that passes through New Rockford. MAS on this track is 35 mph, speed of train was 29 mph. No injuries were reported. NTSB is looking at "wheel fragments". The Casselton crash was due to a broken axle on the grain train. Looks like these cars will need better inspections before entering oil service especially, although Casselton was the grain train. Grain trains run in shuttle service and might be a while before getting a good inspection. The Axle on the grain train *was* inspected but the flaw, a void, lay inside of the axle and out of sight of visual inspections. It was a used axle with new(er) wheels on it. No word yet on the wheel etc. of the recent oil train accident. Maybe we can set up a inspection industry here in Richardton, all returning oil tanks will be inspected and x-rayed before receiving the next loadout of oil. That would provide more jobs in Richardton, and we did build the new rail yards east of town. There is still room for three more firms at this location. A good inspection/cleaning facility might use up all of that space. ROAR |
|
|
| (1351737) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 13 08:27:42 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 13 07:02:08 2015. I noticed that back in 2011. |
|
|
| (1351738) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Wed May 13 08:34:46 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 01:20:59 2015. Again understanding that we don't know anything yet, let me just say in general that it really takes a lot of excess speed to derail if the track and wheels of the train are in proper condition.That is plain physics. A 1000 foot radius curve might be signed for 30 mph. Sideways force is mv^2/r. So at 30 mph, or 44 ft/sec, v^2/r is 2 ft/sec^2. Since g = 32 ft/sec^2, that means at maximum allowable speed, and with no banking of the curve, the sideways force is only 1/16 g. At 60 mph, everything quadruples, so the sideways force is 1/4 g. I would think that trains aren't so top-heavy that a sideways force of 1/4 could topple one, but now we're getting into engineering rather than physics and my knowledge is pretty much nil. At close to 80 mph, we have nearly doubled the sideways force again, and so we're close to 1/2 g. We know from Spuyten Duyvil that that's too much. IIRC that curve has a radius of about 1000 feet. |
|
|
| (1351739) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by nostalgia on Wed May 13 08:50:11 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 01:47:23 2015. Engineer's assignment was ENYP830. Sign up at 1:20PM and operate #2121 at 2PM to Washington, arriving 4:48. Sign up at 6:30 and operate #188, leaving Washington at 7:10. |
|
|
| (1351741) | |
Passenger Account |
|
|
Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 13 08:55:26 2015, in response to Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 12 21:35:00 2015. Very interesting regarding the speed. Passenger MAS is set for passenger comfort, not just safety. Presumably the passengers would have noticed the G's before derailing.‘Suddenly We Were Crashing Over the Side’ Beth Davidz, who was riding in the third car, said the train seemed to be going at a normal speed moments before the crash. “We were on the turn. It felt very normal. And then suddenly we were crashing over on the side and there was blackness,” Ms. Davidz of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, told reporters. Ms. Davidz, who had a scratch on one side of her face and a reddish bruise underneath her left eye, said she had climbed out of the car after it overturned. |
|
|
| (1351742) | |
Re: BIG Derailment in North Dakota last week |
|
|
Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed May 13 08:56:12 2015, in response to BIG Derailment in North Dakota last week, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 13 08:06:00 2015. Thanks for the info.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1351744) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 13 08:59:34 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 13 07:52:32 2015. Maybe he thought he was past the curve already, and increased his speed.That's ridiculous. |
|
|
| (1351745) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Mkeit on Wed May 13 09:12:19 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 13 08:27:42 2015. I notice from photos on philly.com that the derailment took down at least 1 catenary support frame that fell onto the cars. |
|
|
| (1351747) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 13 09:25:43 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by AlM on Wed May 13 08:34:46 2015. The Frankford Jct curve is heavily superelevated and AX trainsets can take it at 60mph. The 50mph speed for non-tilting trainsets is for passenger comfort. Someone on another forum looked up the overturn speed on a table and estimated it to be around 100mph. |
|
|
| (1351750) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Dj Hammers on Wed May 13 09:54:09 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 07:50:47 2015. What nearly happened at Elizabeth? |
|
|
| (1351752) | |
Speed An Early Focus Of Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 13 10:02:29 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 13 09:25:43 2015. Speed is an early focus of the investigation into last night's derailment of Amtrak Regional train 188, which injured scores of passengers and killed six. WPVI-TV in Philadelphia reports that the event recorder was found and taken to Delaware for examination, and that the train's engineer has been interviewed. NTSB investigators are on the scene, and the death toll is expected to climb, sources say, when an overturned Amfleet car is raised by a crane this morning. Rescuers fear there may be additional victims found beneath that wreckage.The curve at Frankford Junction is said to have a speed restriction of 50 MPH, according to local news reports. |
|
|
| (1351753) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 13 10:02:51 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 13 08:59:34 2015. Of course it is. But then so is dosing off at Spuyten Dyvil.ROAR |
|
|
| (1351754) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed May 13 10:05:29 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 13 09:25:43 2015. Someone on RR.net tracked the train on Amtrak tracker or w/e its called and its quite eerie, considering what ended up happening to 188.https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status/598302314613510144/photo/1 |
|
|
| (1351756) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:34:41 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Dj Hammers on Wed May 13 09:54:09 2015. What is now called a Regional Train was approaching Elizabeth, NY-bound, much too fast, like 90 or 100, and a conductor pulled the brake. From that point on, the speed limit on that curve is enforced by cab signal indication.A fellow named Hazegray on trainorders.com can tell you all about it. |
|
|
| (1351757) | |
Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:37:49 2015, in response to Speed An Early Focus Of Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 13 10:02:29 2015. From a friend:FOX 29 in Philadelphia has had extensive coverage since 10 PM last night. The Fox helicopter was over the scene from then until after 11. This AM it was reported that a SEPTA train (also northbound) was on the same track 4 minutes before the AMTRAK one and was hit with some kind of projectile thrown from a pedestrian overpass. Said projectile pierced the Engineers windscreen. That train was pulled out of service immediately and the passengers removed at the next available station. |
|
|
| (1351758) | |
Re: Passenger Account |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:39:55 2015, in response to Passenger Account, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 13 08:55:26 2015. I suppose different types of cars have there own speed at which they tip over under a given circumstance, i.e. Superliners or Chicagoesque Gallery cars would tip before Amfleet. |
|
|
| (1351760) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by Mitch45 on Wed May 13 11:16:31 2015, in response to Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:37:49 2015. Terror? |
|
|
| (1351762) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 13 11:29:10 2015, in response to Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:37:49 2015. With that in mind, one might need to consider whether or not to declare the crash site a crime scene, especially since this could be potentially a murder investigation. |
|
|
| (1351763) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 13 11:37:39 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 13 11:29:10 2015. This is a disturbing development. If it is discovered that this derailment was deliberately caused, it could potentially be a major terrorist incident. |
|
|
| (1351764) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by HART BUS on Wed May 13 11:48:29 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Mitch45 on Wed May 13 11:16:31 2015. I would suggest that perhaps a foolish prank gone wrong. Not the first time a projectile has been dropped off an overpass, whether its a RR overpass or a highway one/ |
|
|
| (1351765) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by Jon Bell on Wed May 13 11:50:47 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 13 11:37:39 2015. Or at least a major idiot incident. Non-terrorist idiots have been throwing stuff off of overpasses ever since the first overpass was built. |
|
|
| (1351766) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by chuchubob on Wed May 13 11:57:49 2015, in response to Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:37:49 2015. The SEPTA train was following train 188, both on track 1. The CETC dispatcher asked a MOW foreman on Wednesday morning to inspect the track 1 catenary between North Philly and SHORE to look for the source of a "plate" that was found. |
|
|
| (1351767) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 12:22:19 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by chuchubob on Wed May 13 11:57:49 2015. Other way around. SEPTA was 4 minutes ahead of Amtrak, not sure if same track. |
|
|
| (1351768) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by displaced angeleno on Wed May 13 12:30:07 2015, in response to Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:37:49 2015. This article claims that the two incidents were miles apart. I only say this to clarify that they didn't happen in the exact same location. |
|
|
| (1351773) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 13 13:08:18 2015, in response to Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:37:49 2015. The engineer of Amtrak 188 reportedly refused to talk to investigators last night, left police station with a lawyer.Not an encouraging development. The train is said to have entered this curve doing triple digit speeds. |
|
|
| (1351775) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by nostalgia on Wed May 13 13:29:01 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 13 08:59:34 2015. This shows you don't know the railroad and should write NOTHING. There's a 60 mph curve to the right AFTER the 50 mph curve to the left.In the Amtrak ETT, the 50 mph curve is the curve east of Shore and the 60 mph curve is the curve west of MP 81. It's entirely possible that the engineer increased speed for the 60 mph curve. |
|
|
| (1351777) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by steamdriven on Wed May 13 13:46:58 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by AlM on Wed May 13 08:34:46 2015. Towards the edge of the topic, the accident train at Spuyten Duyvil (love those place Dutch names!) nearly made it - you can see that it changed direction over 45 degrees, and some of the cars remained on what remained of the tracks. That was a 30mph posted curve and a train rolling at 82mph at the start. Given that forces scale with v^2, that train probably would have made it at 75mph, though I'd prefer not to be in the vicinity.Curve speed limits seem to have a huge margin before derailment is certain. Severe wear on wheel flanges & rails probably happens at less than the toppling-over speed. If the curve was posted for 50, a single-level passenger train could probably make it around at ~100mph, maybe with track damage. I'll take a wild guess and state that something other than speed was the immediate cause for this train to derail. |
|
|
| (1351779) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed May 13 13:54:01 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by steamdriven on Wed May 13 13:46:58 2015. There was a drastic drop in temperature last night, I hear that puts a lot of wear on the rails. |
|
|
| (1351781) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 13 13:59:00 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed May 13 07:55:12 2015. If the B&O/RDG/CNJ route were still open to passenger traffic, that could've helped as well. |
|
|
| (1351782) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 13 13:59:04 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 13 10:02:51 2015. But then so is dosing off at Spuyten Dyvil.No it's not. |
|
|
| (1351783) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 13 14:00:29 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by nostalgia on Wed May 13 13:29:01 2015. This shows how stupid you are. Going 60 MPH through a 50 MPH curve would most likely not cause this accident! |
|
|
| (1351784) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 13 14:02:02 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Mitch45 on Wed May 13 11:16:31 2015. LOL!!! Such a Mitch45 response!!! |
|
|
| (1351785) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by steamdriven on Wed May 13 14:04:15 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 13 13:08:18 2015. Triple digit in km/h or m/h?I'm skeptical: if speed was high enough to cause the derailment by itself, passengers would have reported loose items flying towards the outside of the curve and unusual centripetal force causing a feeling like they're being pushed towards the outside of the turn. Then again, there have been few passenger accounts in the news. |
|
|
| (1351786) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 14:04:20 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed May 13 13:54:01 2015. It was 80 where I live in Central Jersey until around 830pm.Accident happened just an hour later. |
|
|
| (1351787) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by nostalgia on Wed May 13 14:08:34 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 13 14:00:29 2015. Your statement shows you have no reading comprehension. I responded to the poster who wrote that the engineer thought he was beyond the curve and increased speed.I wrote that the engineer may have increased speed for the next curve. I NEVER wrote that going 60 in a 50 MPH curve would cause the derailment. You're on such a hate campaign against me, Brooklyn Bus and I how don't know how many others that you will bend statements to suit your arguments. I no longer get upset at you. I just pity you. You spend so much time on this board you must be unemployed and on welfare supported by MY tax dollars. |
|
|
| (1351788) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by steamdriven on Wed May 13 14:12:03 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 14:04:20 2015. On Fox News at the moment:"AMTRAK TRAIN REPORTEDLY HIT 100 MPH BEFORE DEADLY CRASH" So much for my skepticism. |
|
|
| (1351790) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 14:14:11 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by steamdriven on Wed May 13 14:12:03 2015. I'll wait for some more sources. It won't be much longer. |
|
|
| (1351791) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by chuchubob on Wed May 13 14:14:29 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 12:22:19 2015. My statements are correct. The news reports were misleading.They reported that the SEPTA train got hit at North Philly and the Amtrak train derailed four minutes later at Port Richmond. Train 188 actually derailed on the Frankford curve, which is several miles east of North Philly. The SEPTA train was following AMTK 188. Amtrak would not have placed a Regional behind a SEPTA Trenton Local on track 1. |
|
|
| (1351792) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 14:15:40 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by chuchubob on Wed May 13 14:14:29 2015. Yeh, I saw that article after I posted that. |
|
|
| (1351796) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by chud1 on Wed May 13 14:28:53 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 14:14:11 2015. on fox news and cnn da mayor pf Philly now says 7 dead.chud1. :(.... |
|
|
| (1351797) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 14:30:50 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by chud1 on Wed May 13 14:28:53 2015. Plus a technology CEO, and maybe others, missing. |
|
|
| (1351798) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 13 14:47:22 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 14:14:11 2015. The Washington Post is saying the same. |
|
|
| (1351799) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 15:25:23 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 13 14:47:22 2015. Source is not the "black box", but a surveillance video that captures the train speeding by. A calculation of train length and time to pass the spot (which is apparently immediately before the curve) is where they are coming up with the 106MPH estimate. |
|
|
| (1351802) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
|
|
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 13 15:35:07 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 15:25:23 2015. What's your source on that? The Washington Post is reporting that the source of the train's speed is a combination of the black box and other on board equipment. |
|
|
| (1351805) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 15:43:59 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by HART BUS on Wed May 13 11:48:29 2015. I thought of that as soon as I heard of the derailment, especially given what has been going on of late in NYC and this possibly being a copycat. |
|
|
| (1351806) | |
Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 15:45:45 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Jon Bell on Wed May 13 11:50:47 2015. More than likely Criminally Negligent Homicide if it can be proven the earlier SEPTA incident was directly related. |
|
|
|
Page 2 of 13 |
||
