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| Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station (1292703) | |
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| (1292707) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 22 14:17:30 2014, in response to Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 13:56:23 2014. THANK YOU for this most excellent picture and historical account. The 1979 map shows a free transfer to the B24 bus from Marcy Avenue to Broadway/Kent- so that was my first hint there'd ever been service there (I figured that out at age 11, as the Q49 and B54 nts looked the same- dashed brown lines).When I was old enough to get around by myself, I went out there, and saw the evidence, at Marcy Ave., of the spur's existence. But until the Internet came around, I didn't know the "back story"...(As. my 1967 & 1963 maps didn't show the spur, I did deduce that it ended before then, but that was it) However, I don't see the Driggs Ave. station in this picture- I only see a crossover East of the Ferry station. Also, isn't Driggs Ave. a lot closer to Marcy than to Kent- so it would naturally be out of this picture... |
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| (1292709) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by vfrt on Thu May 22 14:28:15 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 22 14:17:30 2014. Nice photo. |
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| (1292710) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Dave on Thu May 22 14:29:42 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 22 14:17:30 2014. My bad, I meant to type "Ferry Station." |
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| (1292718) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu May 22 14:46:15 2014, in response to Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 13:56:23 2014. Broadway Ferry stop was a double decked station with 2 tracks and a center island platform on each level.Dave: Thank you for posting this picture but the Broadway Ferry station was never double decked. The picture clearly shows this. You may be thinking of the IRT el station at City Hall. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1292720) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Dave on Thu May 22 14:52:44 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu May 22 14:46:15 2014. Larry, are you sure? Here's a picture of Broadway Ferry showing the double deck:
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| (1292723) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 22 15:05:44 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 14:52:44 2014. interesting.too bad it was destroyed. |
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| (1292725) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu May 22 15:13:52 2014, in response to Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 13:56:23 2014. Why was the lower level of the double-decked station never used?Mike |
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| (1292726) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 22 15:35:12 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Michael549 on Thu May 22 15:13:52 2014. My guess is the Lexington Ave el drew more customers from points east because it ran into Manhattan. From what I remember, trains from Cypress Hills always ran to Sands St/Park Row and Canarsie trains used BF. |
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| (1292727) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 22 15:37:01 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 22 15:05:44 2014. Rendered useless when the Willy B connection opened. |
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| (1292730) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 22 15:44:59 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 22 15:37:01 2014. yeah..but TODAY it would have been a good idea since water traffic for transportation is coming back. |
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| (1292733) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 22 16:33:38 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 22 15:44:59 2014. Yeah, but what serves it? The Willy B is already underutilized. |
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| (1292738) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Thu May 22 16:52:39 2014, in response to Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 13:56:23 2014. Interesting to see how far the crossovers are from the terminal platforms. |
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| (1292742) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Dave on Thu May 22 17:07:01 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Michael549 on Thu May 22 15:13:52 2014. Good question. |
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| (1292755) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 22 18:23:26 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 22 14:17:30 2014. When I was old enough to get around by myself, I went out there, and saw the evidence, at Marcy Ave., of the spur's existence.I don't suppose any of that evidence survives today? |
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| (1292760) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu May 22 18:29:39 2014, in response to Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 13:56:23 2014. WOW! An actual pic of Driggs St! I never knew any existed! Thanks so much for posting this!I am now about to save the pic to my computer! |
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| (1292761) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu May 22 18:31:46 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Union Tpke on Thu May 22 18:29:39 2014. meant bdwy ferry |
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| (1292794) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 20:36:11 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 14:52:44 2014. In anticipation of permanent joint BRT/LIRR service, Broadway Ferry was indeed a double decked station. The lower level was never used in service.By the way, Dave, someone helped you with that history of Broadway Ferry spur. Me, perhaps??? |
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| (1292795) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 20:38:19 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 22 14:17:30 2014. You can thank ME for the historical account!!!! |
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| (1292798) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 21:05:24 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 17:07:01 2014. Well, since you used most of my info, I might as well finish the story! The lower level was built for anticipated joint service with the LIRR. The WillyB killed that off when BRT and LIRR service was rerouted over the bridge.Shuttle service with steel el car #998 continued until its demise on July 3rd, 1916. The spur structure was then kept to lay up BRT el cars used in rush hour Broadway-Brooklyn service, until 1927. That's when sufficient Triplexes freed up more Standards for the Eastern Division. During this time, there was also talk of reopening the Broadway ferry with service to East 23rd St, instead to the former terminus at Grand Street. There was even an article in the NY Times about it, dated April 17th, 1921. After the Broadway-Brooklyn gate cars were not longer needed in 1927, the spur fell into disrepair. But the structure was needed to carry power cables from the Kent Ave powerhouse to the rebuilt Broadway-Brooklyn el. In the 1930's some sections of the eastbound track were removed. The spur, now an eyesore, was demolished, beginning on May 6th, 1941, a year after Unification. |
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| (1292799) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 21:09:24 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Jsun21 on Thu May 22 16:52:39 2014. That's because there were supposed to be ramps from the never-used lower level of Broadway Ferry to the upper main level, prior to the crossovers. |
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| (1292804) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Dave on Thu May 22 21:31:54 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 20:38:19 2014. LOL! Thanks much! The sources I used don't mention who originally provided the narrative. |
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| (1292805) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 21:38:14 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 21:31:54 2014. No problem, Dave! I wrote that stuff a few years ago and I guess that someone else first picked up on it. |
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| (1292807) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 22 21:58:44 2014, in response to Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 13:56:23 2014. Looks like it could've had its own bridge across the East River from there instead of going over the Williamsburg Bridge. |
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| (1292809) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Dave on Thu May 22 22:04:57 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 22 21:58:44 2014. Sure does. |
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| (1292810) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 22:20:48 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 22 21:58:44 2014. Actually, BRT president, Fredrick Uhlmann, proposed a rail bridge just NORTH of the present WillyB, in 1892. NY state even gave him a charter to build it, along with a vehicular bridge, where the present bridge is. But political interests and Jay Gould's Manhattan Elevated Railway frustrated all of his attempts. Uhlmann gave up and in early 1896 returned the charter to the state. Shortly after that, construction for the present bridge began. |
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| (1292812) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu May 22 22:24:53 2014, in response to Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 13:56:23 2014. I think mostly correct....but if I am not mistaken....Delancey St was the terminal for a bit when the bridge first opened. Essex St was originally Delancey St and was a two track station we with a center island and two wall platforms. Eventually the station was reconfigured and made into the station we know today. The island platform was demolished and the current middle track built there. The current island platform built where the original bridge bound track was and the current bridge bound wall platform demolished for what is now the bridge bound track. |
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| (1292813) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu May 22 22:30:23 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 14:52:44 2014. I am still confused though. Where in the original photo are the ramps leading to that lower level? Sure that is Broadway ferry? |
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| (1292814) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 22:46:15 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu May 22 22:30:23 2014. It IS broadway Ferry! The ramps were never built. The lower level station was never connected to the tracks. That's why that crossover is so far away from the terminal- in case the ramps were ever connected. I believe that a similar photo was used in, "The Tracks of New York", Number 2, on page 28- lower left corner. |
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| (1292815) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu May 22 23:00:05 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 22:46:15 2014. Ah okay. Understood. |
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| (1292816) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu May 22 23:07:28 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 22:46:15 2014. Maybe it was supposed to be only a single track ramp in that open space between the two upper level tracks with a Y type connection just west of the crossover. There doesn't seem to be enough room for two ramp tracks. |
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| (1292823) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri May 23 01:08:06 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu May 22 22:24:53 2014. There is more to that story. When the WillyB opened in 1903, it had a steel elevated structure for a BRT terminal on its Manhattan end. (We discussed it, a few weeks ago.) Because the BRT balked at being charged for every train over the bridge, it was never used and was later incorporated into the pedestrian walkway. The City, through its Dept of Bridges, offered to build the "Delancey Street" (now Essex) terminal for the BRT in the beginning of 1906. The City and the BRT settled their differences so, in late 1906, construction of the terminal began. It opened in 1908. |
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| (1292825) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by renee gil on Fri May 23 01:28:01 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu May 22 22:24:53 2014. Essex St was originally Delancey St and was a two track station we with a center island and two wall platforms.just like the Atlantic Avenue IRT station when it was originally the terminal for the Brooklyn IRT subway from 1908-1920. |
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| (1292854) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri May 23 07:10:42 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Dave on Thu May 22 14:52:44 2014. Dave: In service only a single level was ever used. I have to say that this is the first I've ever heard of an unused lower level at that station. Our friend the elkeeper has done a lot of research into the els so he may be right. Let me do a little research of my own and get back to you.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1292855) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 23 07:14:14 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Nilet on Thu May 22 18:23:26 2014. Most of it does. Look at the structure at west end of the Marcy Avenue station and the stub is easy to spot.In 1989, when I first saw it myself, there were actually tracks on it- it was obvious how it had simply been cut off. Now, there are only a few ties which support plastic decking for TA employees to walk on... |
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| (1292856) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri May 23 07:14:21 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 20:38:19 2014. You can thank ME for the historical account!!!!Elkeeper: Have you though about putting all this stuff together into an internet file the way that I have done the Almanac?. Maybe you could do a line by line history that would serve as a reference source for the els. I have a fair amount of material that I could send you copies of if you decided to do this. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1292857) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 23 07:17:51 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 20:38:19 2014. Ok...this leads me to seek clarification on something.The posted account indicates that wooden El cars that couldn't go into the tunnel in Manhattan were stored on this spur until 1927. My question is- did they provide any service there, or did they just run light between Marcy Ave and Kent Ave? |
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| (1292860) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 23 07:25:00 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri May 23 07:10:42 2014. He's not our friend. He's pretty useless here. |
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| (1292865) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by renee gil on Fri May 23 08:06:40 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 23 07:25:00 2014. elkeeper is pretty useful here. |
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| (1292867) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 23 08:23:47 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by renee gil on Fri May 23 08:06:40 2014. It was a reference to a comment he made... |
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| (1292869) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri May 23 08:39:49 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 23 07:17:51 2014. The posted account indicates that wooden El cars that couldn't go into the tunnel in Manhattan were stored on this spur until 1927. My question is- did they provide any service there, or did they just run light between Marcy Ave and Kent Ave?Main: In some cases there is a limited amount of information available from those early days. I did some research though and can provide the following. In the period from 1019 to 1914 there was still thru service between the Broadway Ferry and Cypress Hills running express in the rush hours. There is also a shuttle between Broadway Ferry and Marcy Avenue but the hours of service are not given. In the period from 1915 to 1916 there was still thru service to the Ferry in the rush hours with shuttle service between to and from Marcy Avenue probably during the non-rush hours. Service on the ferry branch was discontinued on either July 2 (Sunday) or July 3 (Monday) , 1916 . (Reports differ). It may be that July 2 was the last full day of service but that the last train actually ran in the early AM hours of July 3. The structure remained intact until 1942 and was used for storage equipment. My sources for this were: "Broadway L - Corporate History" by Edward B Watson and Arthur J Lonto. "Broadway L Schedule Changes" by Bernard Linder Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1292875) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri May 23 09:34:48 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 23 07:25:00 2014. So are deadbeat dads who run away from their children to chase down last runs, people who get fired from mailrooms and tamper with roll signs. |
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| (1292877) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Fri May 23 09:45:56 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 21:38:14 2014. Did the rest of the Broadway El to East New York(prior to third tracking around 1915) look the same as this part? |
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| (1292881) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Fri May 23 09:49:58 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri May 23 09:34:48 2014. Wow!!!! LMAO!!! :-D |
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| (1292907) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 23 13:14:28 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri May 23 09:34:48 2014. Possibly. Do you know for fact of anyone like that? |
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| (1292937) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 23 14:20:58 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri May 23 08:39:49 2014. Thank you for helping me out. I realize how sketchy information that far back can be, so I appreciate it.On that matter, I've looked at a lot of websites to determine how long passenger service lasted at the West 30th Street station in Manhattan. Conflicting information all over the place... |
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| (1292951) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 23 15:23:54 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 23 07:14:14 2014. I started working for the TA in 1966 and spent a great deal of time in the BMT East and I never saw any rails or ties on that spur. |
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| (1292959) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri May 23 15:28:08 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 23 14:20:58 2014. West 30th Street? |
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| (1292968) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri May 23 15:42:14 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by renee gil on Fri May 23 08:06:40 2014. IAWTP!chud1. :).... |
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| (1293010) | |
Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri May 23 17:16:39 2014, in response to Re: Broadway Ferry El showing Driggs Ave. Station, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 22 21:05:24 2014. WOW, you know so much about this stuff, you should write a book! |
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