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| (1286289) | |
1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014 Demolished after the Fair. IIRC that's Mt. Hebron cemetery to the right of the picture.
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 17 20:59:17 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. E? I thought service was covered by the GG. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Apr 17 21:08:43 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 17 20:59:17 2014. It was covered by both. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Apr 17 21:49:50 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. Thats where the Van Wyck expressway runs today. What a mistake not keeping the line & extending it up twoards Whitestone or College Point.BTW I don't think those R's had windshield wipers on them at the time. Since the original IND plans were to keep all of its lines underground, windshield wipers were thought of as unneccessary. Talk about the then narrow minded thinking that figured all future mass transit expantion projects would be underground. Hyland and his engineers should have been horsewhipped!! |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by gbs on Thu Apr 17 22:17:28 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. And the site of the current Van Wyck Expressway, extended through here for the 1964 World's Fair: 
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by K. Trout on Thu Apr 17 22:27:46 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Apr 17 21:49:50 2014. So how did they deal with rain on the spur or at Smith-9th? Did M/Ms reach out and wipe it off with a towel once they were under cover again? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Thu Apr 17 22:29:46 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by K. Trout on Thu Apr 17 22:27:46 2014. They looked thru the raindrops. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 00:13:21 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Thu Apr 17 22:29:46 2014. Yep ... and we smeared it good with the trusty NY Post out the side window. Been there, done that. They may have had wipers, but they never touched the glass. :) |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 00:18:07 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Apr 17 21:49:50 2014. They didn't work out all that great after they were installed either. :) |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 18 00:33:31 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Apr 17 21:49:50 2014. I would argue that this wouldn't have been the best way to get trains up to College Point/Whitestone. Going all the way down to Union Tpke to come back up would just have everyone getting on the 7 anyway (assuming a shared station was built) |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Apr 18 04:56:30 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. those look like my old friends da Arnines.chud1. :).... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Apr 18 05:05:43 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Apr 17 21:49:50 2014. Hyland and his engineers should have been crucified.chud1. :).... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 18 06:58:40 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. Thanks for the pic. I consider it tragic this line wasn't saved... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 07:49:43 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 00:13:21 2014. Oh - so you actually found a real use for the Post? Outside of kitty litter, wee wee training and bird cage lining, of course.... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 08:17:35 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 18 06:58:40 2014. It was never meant to be anything but temporary - it was set up financially and corporately as a totally separate entity from the IND, with the express provision that it would be torn up after the fair was done. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 08:33:54 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. short-sighted back then- the need for a line like this exists now. How do we get it made a reality ? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 18 08:36:54 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 08:33:54 2014. Today it makes sense, back then the line traversed a whole lotta nothing. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 08:41:57 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 18 08:36:54 2014. true- yet the IND Second System plans would have addressed a lot of problems that we are dealing with today. Still, the need is there- how do we address this ? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by GIS Man on Fri Apr 18 08:49:48 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 07:49:43 2014. A-MEN!Bob |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 18 08:55:03 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 08:41:57 2014. First, we print a shitload of money. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 09:00:47 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 18 08:55:03 2014. I know - it takes a lot of money. Yet the need is there. NYC politics again- they have money for what they want to have and excuses for everything else. The #7 line extension was done because development interests for the West Side are in place to make a lot of money. The Second Ave. Subway is finally getting done because somebody is going to get a lot of money. East Side Access is getting done because somebody is going to get a lot of money. As for what the public at large needs, it is the same old line- the public be damned... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Apr 18 09:28:52 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. Is that the shortest lived New York line? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 18 09:29:06 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 07:49:43 2014. Now now. The NY Post is great for rolling up and using to smack NY Post editors. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Apr 18 10:43:29 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by gbs on Thu Apr 17 22:17:28 2014. It is such a shame that they tore up a perfectly good two track railroad to replace it with a six lane parking lot.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Apr 18 10:55:22 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Apr 18 09:28:52 2014. Shortest revenue line, probably. |
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| (1286375) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by vfrt on Fri Apr 18 11:02:37 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 09:00:47 2014. A lot of money today means billions upon billions of dollars which we don't have. |
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| (1286380) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 18 11:43:33 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 18 08:55:03 2014. "First, we print a shitload of money"Then you have to get by all the "enviornmental impact" studies, that in itself would take years. Remember this is 2014. If all the enviornmental concerns were the same back say 150-175 yrs ago as they are now, the old New York Central Hudson line would never have been built. |
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| (1286382) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Hoosac on Fri Apr 18 11:47:48 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 18 08:36:54 2014. Look at old construction photos of the No. 7 line (as it's now known), heading out into the empty fields of Queens. If you build it, they will come, and they did. |
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| (1286389) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Randyo on Fri Apr 18 12:55:57 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Apr 17 21:49:50 2014. Actually, not all of the IND lines were supposed to be underground. Proposed lines in the Bronx were supposed to have elevated portions at their outer ends and the Utica Av subway was supposed to be elevated S/O Ave M. Don't forget the proposals to have the IND go to Rockaway via Whitepot Jct and the LIRR ROW. |
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| (1286390) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 12:57:23 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 07:49:43 2014. Sometimes it was the Times. All a question of the shortest walk to a newspaper on the floor in the lead car. But it was usually the Post, folks'd take their Times with them. :) |
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| (1286396) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 18 13:39:00 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 08:17:35 2014. I believe you. Nevertheless, had it been saved, it likely would have been today a significant part of the transit network. Queens's development may have taken a totally different path. |
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| (1286415) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Joe on Fri Apr 18 17:24:56 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. I wonder what the ridership ratio was between this Independent branch and the turnstile numbers at the BMT/Interborough Willets Point station. The Independent may have gained from passengers leaving the nightly shows in the nearby amusement area, but I guess that the BMT/IRT numbers were far higher, perhaps 9:1.Any figures from any source? Thanks. Joe |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:52:19 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 12:57:23 2014. Couldn't really use your I-Pad for that. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:55:45 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Randyo on Fri Apr 18 12:55:57 2014. I think originally, Utica was to become elevated south of Carroll Street. Hence the widened street at that point. Otherwise, it would have remained narrow until the bottom of the hill at Empire Blvd. At Carrolll Street the train wouldn't have had to change elevation. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:56:21 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Apr 18 10:43:29 2014. Wasn't there enough room for both? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:58:16 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 09:00:47 2014. I really doubt it if the SAS will be completed in the next 50 years, if at all. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 18 18:09:48 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:56:21 2014. Even now there is, since the tacks could be elevated over the highway as the AirTrain is over the lower Van Wyck. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 18 18:11:34 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 09:00:47 2014. But basically, every subway extension in the past 100 years was done to spur development. So what's new? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 18:23:36 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:52:19 2014. Very expensive squeegee. :) |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Apr 18 18:37:54 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 12:57:23 2014. Often one could finish reading the NY Post on the say the Franklin Shuttle trip across town. If you just concentrated on the news, sports and editorial sections - simply a single trip on the Times Square shuttle should do it. LOL!The NY-Times usually required a trip from the tip of Manhattan to the ends of the Bronx, Queens or from midtown to the ends of Brooklyn to completely read the day's paper. Now the Sunday NY Times - would usually need an Amtrak train trip across the country to finish reading in one sitting. LOL! Mike |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 18 18:43:52 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:58:16 2014. Certainly phase 1 will open within the next five years. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 18 18:45:08 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 18 11:43:33 2014. 175 years ago the Hudson River was not as polluted. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 18 18:53:18 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Michael549 on Fri Apr 18 18:37:54 2014. Heh. Funny thing about Post readers back then ... many apparently never figured out how to OPEN the newspaper - they'd look at the front page, look at the back and onto the floor it went.I'm just glad I didn't have to buy paper towels to get the "vision glass" ... there were plenty of Posts on the floor and if there weren't any on the floor, once you unstuck a door, there'd be one wedged behind it in the door track. :) |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 19:58:29 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Joe on Fri Apr 18 17:24:56 2014. "I wonder what the ridership ratio was between this Independent branch and the turnstile numbers at the BMT/Interborough Willets Point station. The Independent may have gained from passengers leaving the nightly shows in the nearby amusement area, but I guess that the BMT/IRT numbers were far higher, perhaps 9:1.Any figures from any source?" Joe, Higher but not that high - the ratio was not quite 2:1 in 1940. Willets Point Blvd 5,383,449 World's Fair IND 2,847,123 With no attarction, the WPB figures dropped to 134,597 in 1941. Source: Transit Record, March 1942 |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 20:10:22 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 19:58:29 2014. wonder what WP-SS did in 64/65.... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 18 20:20:21 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:52:19 2014. Maxi pad would have better...periodically that is:) |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 18 20:44:01 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Randyo on Fri Apr 18 12:55:57 2014. So what is the reason for omitting windshield wipers on the R equiptment if all these outdoor expantions plans were on the drawing board ? Did anyone know this when the original orders for the R 1-9 contracts were let out that someday they'd be running outdoors ? Brian J.C s' book (Under the sidewalks of New York) said that the only reason R equiptment got windshield wipers was they were needed after the IND took over the Culver line from the BMT.No other outdoor expansion reason was mentioned. Just a thought. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 21:27:02 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:55:45 2014. I think you are right. Not only did the elevation change, but there was a large underground water table, a few blocks south of there. Yet another reason for an elevated line, south of Carroll. Only problem that I could see was that the Utica line was supposed to have been built for 4 tracks, not 2. Unless 2 tracks terminated at Eastern Parkway. I just can't envision a 4 track elevated structure over Utica Ave! |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 21:28:44 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 18 09:29:06 2014. And bad dogs! |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 21:31:24 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 19:58:29 2014. The beginning of the end for the remaining portion of the 2nd Ave el! |
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