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| Re: IND Second System full sized maps (124546) | |
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Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 10 01:27:00 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by R33 9139 on Tue Aug 9 10:20:33 2005. You win. SPUI Single Point Urban Interchange John in the sand box of Marylands eastern shore. |
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| (125026) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Aug 10 04:39:38 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 9 09:33:35 2005. So you're saying that when railfans find out about the SPUI they'll say PHUI? |
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Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Wed Aug 10 10:43:20 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Aug 9 09:33:35 2005. Why not? Different modes of transportation can (and should) complement each other, not compete with each other.One of the Amsterdam tram stops is Spui. (I think it's also the name of a square.) |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (125111) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 10 10:50:52 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by R33 9139 on Tue Aug 9 10:20:33 2005. Thank you.I made two errors in my above post. First, I mistakenly thought that SandBox was saying that "SPUI" was an internet slang term, which is why I immediately checked Urban Dictionary. That error was compounded by my not taking the next logical step: trying Google. I should have been able to figure this out on my own. I'm sorry I made the above two stupid mistakes and will work to improve in the future. Thank you for your time in doing for me what I should have done for myself. |
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| (125124) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Aug 10 11:26:57 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 10 10:50:52 2005. I have reason to believe that the person who wrote the IND Second System content at Wikipedia is the same person that use to post at misc.transport.road with the same SPUI handle when he was studying at MIT a couple of years ago. He use to maintain a web site that contained a database of all the SPUI around the USA and world.John in the sand box of Marylands eastern shore. |
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| (125139) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by AFC on Wed Aug 10 12:39:25 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by David of Broadway on Wed Aug 10 10:43:20 2005. This is what often many propopents of one mode of transportation often forger or even ignore: all modes of transit should work together to provide the best possible way to get somewhere. |
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| (125200) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 10 18:04:31 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by American Pig on Tue Aug 9 14:26:22 2005. Not in the 1929 or 1939 plans, but it was proposed in 1949 and again recently, losing out to the Water St. alignment. |
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| (125249) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Aug 10 20:21:50 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 10 18:04:31 2005. Yeah, like it will be built this time around anyway..... |
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| (125251) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Flatbush41 on Wed Aug 10 20:34:17 2005, in response to IND Second System full sized maps, posted by xandervaliya on Mon Aug 8 14:57:25 2005. Thanks for the link. Man they were really ambitious back in the day and it would of been cool to see at least even 1/3 of the proposals go through. |
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| (125260) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 10 20:44:10 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Flatbush41 on Wed Aug 10 20:34:17 2005. Many of the Queens lines make sense today. A train to Springfield Blvd. E train to JFK. |
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| (125284) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Wed Aug 10 21:48:30 2005, in response to IND Second System full sized maps, posted by xandervaliya on Mon Aug 8 14:57:25 2005. An enormous thank you to SPUI for his generous contributions to this article among many others on NYC's transit history.Yeah. SPUI has made some great maps too! Great job SPUI! :-) |
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Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Aug 11 08:22:34 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by David of Broadway on Wed Aug 10 10:43:20 2005. One of the Amsterdam tram stops is Spui. (I think it's also the name of a square.)Probably named after the River Spui, which IINM is a channel in the Rhine-Meuse delta. |
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| (125476) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Fytton on Thu Aug 11 08:27:41 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Aug 11 08:22:34 2005. "One of the Amsterdam tram stops is Spui. (I think it's also the name of a square.)"I think Spui is the name of the canal that that tram stop is alongside. This may perhaps be a canalised version of the river Rail Blue mentioned. It is pronounced spow, to rhyme with cow as pronounced by a Canadian. There is also a street in Amsterdam called Spuistraat. |
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| (127173) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 10:57:19 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 9 12:24:18 2005. College Point line seems way too straight to be via the LIRR Whitestone |
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| (127180) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 11:02:58 2005, in response to Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by xandervaliya on Tue Aug 9 13:58:52 2005. Putting subway on those ROWs would mean the death of LI rail freight. |
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| (127186) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 15 11:07:44 2005, in response to Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 11:02:58 2005. True. However, they only need one track for the freight. The ROW on both lines is at least two tracks wide, and in most cases, it should be possible to make it three tracks wide - two tracks for the rapid transit, and one for the heavy rail for freight. |
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| (127226) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 12:21:44 2005, in response to Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 15 11:07:44 2005. I still think LIRR would be able to provide adequate service |
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| (127227) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 15 12:30:34 2005, in response to Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 12:21:44 2005. On what, the Montauk Branch? The only way that adequate service would be on that line (at least enough to boost ridership), is through a rapid transit sort of line, or even the frequency of light rail. The LIRR is basically a commuter line, not a rapid transit line. It has no interest in a rapid transit operation. Not to mention that the price of the fare the LIRR would have to charge would not boost ridership to the same levels a "subway-like" fare would.With the LIRR, the service would be considerably worse than they now run on the mainline to Forest Hills, etc....and that is only as "good" as it is because the trains have to go by anyway to get to Penn. |
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| (127238) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 12:52:39 2005, in response to Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 15 12:30:34 2005. Make city ticket full time. And LIRR could run the service at a decent level. |
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| (127240) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 15 12:54:12 2005, in response to Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 12:52:39 2005. Make city ticket full time. And LIRR could run the service at a decent level.And watch the MTA loose even more money. |
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| (127416) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by Broadway Junction on Mon Aug 15 20:31:30 2005, in response to Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 15 12:52:39 2005. They don't even run any service on the line currently. |
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| (127601) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Aug 16 08:51:22 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Broadway Junction on Tue Aug 9 12:37:56 2005. That's something I didn't know! Has someone actually made a list of all the bellmouths and unused turn-offs that exist in the system? It should end up being quite a list! |
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| (128026) | |
Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps) |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Aug 17 10:15:07 2005, in response to Re: Winfield Spur (Re: IND Second System full sized maps), posted by Broadway Junction on Mon Aug 15 20:31:30 2005. So add the service...do I really have to spell everything out for you. |
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| (128686) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by vengence on Fri Aug 19 03:51:11 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 8 17:48:25 2005. The 1939 route plan would have retained the Broadway El.from Myrtle ave to Jamaica....and from another plan that I've seen..the El would have connected to the South 4TH st/Utica ave line somewhere near Bushwick avenue and Troutman st. |
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| (129324) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Aug 20 23:55:14 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Alargule on Mon Aug 8 17:18:09 2005. This is AMAZING!I see the 2/5 extension was in the proposal, hopefully they included some express tracks because I don't think too my people are going to tolerate making all those stop with the D/Q close by. I see extending the Rockaway line into Central and Northern Queens was in the plan. Damn! what a missed opportunity, people wouldn't be stuck dealing with long route that the "A" takes to get to lower manhattan and then MIdtown. I see another extension of the Fulton Subway. You know with that extension, they would have gotten ride of the EL that goes to lefferts Blvd? I see the "J" line would have been duplicated via Broadway. That would have been replaced. And the new J would probably be merged with the "L" via 14th Street. The MYrle Avenue el would have probably been demolitioned without a meaningful replace unless they tied it in with the 4th Street subway. I would have hope they did the latter. Judging from this map, with south brooklyn already saturated with subway service, it looks like it will be getting addition lines. But who's complaining... Queens is looking kind of healthy on this map. I could only image how many of these neighborhoods would look if the subway was introduced. Also, looking at the bronx section the 3rd Avenue el would have stand a chance of surviving, because a part of it could have became the subway. And I'm sure the second Avenue subway would have been 4 tracks made up of express and local like the 8th Avenue subway is. The "D" should have gotten an extension a long time ago. I love this map. Good job Alargule! W Broadway Local Substiting N Broadway Express |
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| (129326) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Aug 20 23:58:00 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 9 15:26:24 2005. That's what I was thinking. |
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| (129327) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by W Broadway Local on Sun Aug 21 00:04:10 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Alargule on Mon Aug 8 16:06:05 2005. I always thought the money should have went into building a full four track second Avenue Subway than building the Concourse line to 8th Avenue. I know it provided a westside/east side connection, but that could have been accomplished by a cross 125th Street line. Besides, you already had the IRT #2 as a westside option for bronx riders.Also they could have saved money, because even at that time, building on 6th Avenue was much more expensive than Building on second Avenue. On top of that, you already had the Path (which could have been extended) and the N/R lines. The IRT is close by and the #7 makes connecting to all these lines possible. Just my opinion. |
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| (129362) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by vengence on Sun Aug 21 02:13:35 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by W Broadway Local on Sun Aug 21 00:04:10 2005. You are right in a way...The first plan WAS for a lines being built on the east and west side with 6th avenue service coming later. The Concourse line was part of the SAS mainline. Plans were changed when the city can up against problems with cash. So the IND system was divided into phases. Phase one was worked around the 8th avenue subway line...with branches to Brooklyn Queens and the Bronx... Later the BOT added a branch along Brooklyn's Fulton st to replace the Fulton EL. Phase two would work around the SAS and branch off into Brooklyn Queens and The Bronx. The BOT wanted the Concourse line built.So it was thru routed to Manhattan via the 8th Avenue subway... The Boston Road route,and the 10th avenue route was put on hold. As far as Im concerned...the BOT should have carried out the orignial plan with a line under 8th and one under 2nd.That way..the chance of the 6th ave line being built would have been better than what they did with the SAS. Granted..the city couldn't afford to OPERATED...a Second avenue susbway during the 40's...even IF they could afford to build it. One by one..the new lines went to the chopping block... The 10th avenue subway was first...then the Worth st..then the Houston st...Liberty avenue...Utica avenue... All gone. The City WANTED the 6th ave subway...because of the revenue it potentialy could bring in...and rightly so. In any case...that was the death kneel for the Second ave route and it brances... |
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| (129367) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by vengence on Sun Aug 21 02:25:00 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 9 10:10:11 2005. One set of plans that I've seen had the Broadway el running out of the South 4th st/Bushwick branch...The line would make an odd jog and move over from Bushwick ave to Broadway where the Utica ave line split off. It would have been a subway to Cypress Hills then a ramp to the Jamaica El. Another one had the line ramped up to the el after Myrtle avenue. So from what I can see here,is that the BOT wanted to at least keep part of the the Jamaica line operating...but out of the South 4th street line. As for Nassau st...the SAS would have taken that over as part of the Chrystie st Project. |
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Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by vengence on Sun Aug 21 02:28:05 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Mon Aug 8 23:43:34 2005. Yeah..lets see ONE of them built in our lifetime.The SAS..the Houston st South 4th along with the Worth st line... Yep... And ALL the Queens routes. And the one that makes the most sense ..the SAS line in to East Tremont/177TH.. |
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| (129369) | |
Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by W Broadway Local on Sun Aug 21 02:28:47 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by vengence on Sun Aug 21 02:13:35 2005. "The City WANTED the 6th ave subway...because of the revenue it potentialy could bring in...and rightly so."This makes sense! W Bwy |
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