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| Re: IND Second System full sized maps (124842) | |||
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Re: IND Second System full sized maps |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 9 12:24:18 2005, in response to Re: IND Second System full sized maps, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 9 10:58:07 2005. 1. Under the 1929 plan, the Rockaway extention was not supposed to use the LIRR line. It was to run parallel to the Rockaway ROW at points, but not actually use it. In fact, the provision at 63rd Drive station was probably not made until they decided on the 1939 plan (the Queens Blvd line was being built when the 1929 map came out, so the built the extra Roosevelt station that was supposed to be the beginning of the Fresh Pond Rd line, which would connect to the 1929 version of the Rockaway line. During construction of the Queens Blvd line, they must have decided on the 63rd St connection for the LIRR Rocakway line that is shown in the 1939 map, because they made the provision in the construction also. Correct. I believe the Rockaway Beach LIRR wasn't yet available in 1929, as the NYW&B wasn't. Acquiring these lines meant changes could be made. 2. Under the 1929 plan, the Fulton Subway was supposed to connect to the Loberty el just like it does now, and continue east from Lefferts. (NO 76th St station!!!!). The Jamaica El was to be extended, and The Fulton line and the Jamaica Els would have connected to eachother via the Brinkernoff connection to Hollis. Interestingly, the Hillside line was not expected to be extended at that time. Under the 1939 plan, the Jamaica El was to stay where it was, and the Hillside line was the one to be extended. This is odd, seeing how the Fulton St. line was always expected to run all the way to Springfield Blvd. As for the later plan to extend Hillside Ave and not Jamaica, you can see the seeds of the eventual demolition of the el here already planted. 3. Under the 1929 plan, the Fulton-Liberty line wasn't to connect to the Rockaway line at all. Under the 1939 plan, the Fulton El was not to connect to the Rockaway line, however, the extention beyond Euclid (GO 76th STREET!!!) was supposed to connect to the Rockaway line. No, it was meant to connect to the Myrtle/Central line via Montauk in 1929. In 1939 there were to be 2 connections, including the current one. Totally unecessary, IMHO. Growth in the Rockaways was probably expected to be higher. 4. Both plans have the same exact Van Wyck line to Rockaway Blvd. That provsision became the Archer extention. I guess in theory, that line was somewhat buillt.....through AirTrain. This line is perhaps the one which should have been built immediatley, because it would have been an ideal direct rail connection to JFK. 5. I don't understand how that was to work, but under the 1929 plan, the IRT Nostrand line was to be extended and connected to the IND Utica Ave line. (ANyone know how? FOur seperated tracks perhaps?). I don't think there was any plan for the IND to take over the dual contracts portion of the IRT Brooklyn line east of Atlantic AVe. Think Archer Ave. 2 levels. This line would have really relieved the pressure on the Brooklyn IRT. 6. Under the 1929 plan, there were grand plans for the South 4th St station, and replacement of the Broadway El, and for the neighborhoods the Eastern Division serves. Under the 1939 plan, much of the areas the Eastern Division serves were cut out, and the South 4th Street line appeared to be just for the Utica subway (Which no longer was supposed to connect to the IRT Nostrand extention). Reality set in. I still believe the Myrtle/Central/Rockaway connection in the 1929 plan made the most sense, since the Utica Ave line left large portions of the Broadway Brooklyn el unreplaced. They'd have to have been kept. 7. Under the 1939 plan, they were still planning to use the entire ROW of the Westchester and Boston line, even south of East 180th. The Pelham line was to connect to that line. A change from the 1929 plan is the connection from the Concourse line was abolished. The NYW&B was kaput in 1939, so plans changed. 8. The Astoria El was to be extended under the 1929 plan to the Horace Harding line....under the 1939 plan, the Astoria line was to be replaced with a subway to the west of the el. Tear down the Astoria el! 9. Was the "College Point Line" the old LIRR WHitestone branch? That's a real shame that that wasn't annexed to the subway system. I believe so, although I can't see it going that far. Much of the Whitestone branch of the LIRR was a one track ROW which winded it's way thru private property. |
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