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| Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? (1243590) | |
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| (1243596) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 23 15:25:22 2013, in response to Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Aug 23 14:35:08 2013. obsolete, auto centric, idiots. there is no rail crossing between the PRR tunnels and Albany. |
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| (1243598) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Aug 23 15:31:42 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 23 15:25:22 2013. And if there were a demand for one, Conrail, CSX or NS would have built it between 1974 and now. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1243608) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Aug 23 16:45:40 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 23 15:25:22 2013. obsolete, auto centric, idiots. there is no rail crossing between the PRR tunnels and Albany.Your response seems to imply freight railroad use, which also seems to imply that Amtrak, NJT, Metro-North, and even LIRR want more freight on their tracks. |
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| (1243618) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 23 17:26:17 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Aug 23 15:31:42 2013. And TZ shows no growth in river crossings? |
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| (1243619) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Aug 23 17:29:42 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Aug 23 15:31:42 2013. provisions for a rail line are included in the building of the new bridge.my friends daughter is one of the engineers working on the project. |
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| (1243630) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:17:16 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Aug 23 15:31:42 2013. Uh, no. This is Conjob you are bringing up. They always destroyed no matter what the demand might have been. |
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| (1243632) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:18:15 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Aug 23 16:45:40 2013. Nothing wrong with mixed freight and passenger. The private railroads did it all the time. |
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| (1243633) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:18:32 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 23 15:25:22 2013. Well there was, but the auto-centric pols turned it into a walkway. It was even the first rail link between Washington and Boston. |
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| (1243634) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:19:31 2013, in response to Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Aug 23 14:35:08 2013. No . . . politicians that tell us we don't need ten bullets to kill a deer are what the "dud" is. |
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| (1243637) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Aug 23 18:28:37 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:19:31 2013. You need 10 bullets to kill a deer? You should be practicing your aim more. |
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| (1243651) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Aug 23 19:40:01 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:18:15 2013. On the face of it, no. At the time, though, the same railroad ran both, so there was a common goal. Not so now. Commuters tend to be pissy about late trains, and probably won't consider "it was a freight problem" a good excuse. |
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| (1243652) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 23 19:53:48 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 23 15:25:22 2013. The Alfred H Smith Memorial Bridge is between the PRR tunnels and Albany |
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| (1243666) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:04:41 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Aug 23 15:31:42 2013. Ding! The Tappan Zee is due to collapse in just a few more years, and SOMETHING has to be done. Since the taxpayers are not willing to front such a large number, then it's going to have to wait or there won't be any replacement bridge at all. Those folks there will either have to drive to Jersey or the Thruway is going to have to cross at Newburgh. Remember, this is a THRUWAY bridge. |
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| (1243668) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:06:33 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by 3-9 on Fri Aug 23 19:40:01 2013. It's also CSX country and one might want to consider how often "ship by ground" is likely to jack up the commuter service. CSX is pretty good about getting stuff through the Selkirk hump, the shortcut won't make all THAT much difference for freight now that Selkirk has through trackage. |
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| (1243671) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:08:11 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by AlM on Fri Aug 23 18:28:37 2013. He's blind. Those of us who actually KNOW how to hunt know to hit right behind the shoulder and just one will take Bambi out. :)Gun control ... being able to CONTROL your gun. |
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| (1243672) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:09:33 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:18:32 2013. No ... the damned thing burned and that was the only practical alternative to just dropping it in the water. Are you aware that it only had ONE track?Tappan Zee is WAY south of Po'town. |
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| (1243673) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Aug 23 21:11:05 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 23 18:18:15 2013. If rail option is done on Tappan zee bridge there won't be any freight. |
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| (1243676) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:16:11 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Aug 23 17:29:42 2013. Yep ... the real problem there is getting up and down from both ends of the bridge. |
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| (1243681) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Aug 23 21:31:59 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 23 19:53:48 2013. I don't think everyone here distinguishes between Selkirk and Albany. |
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| (1243683) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:45:49 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by AlM on Fri Aug 23 21:31:59 2013. Heh. And Selkirk IS in Albany county, so it's all good. :) |
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| (1243702) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Fri Aug 23 22:33:31 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 23 15:25:22 2013. The lines west of the Hudson are a rounding error in MN's overall ridership. It just doesn't make sense spending billions to make the bridge with rail, then billions more to connect those lines. It likely won't affect ridership much, and it's money the state doesn't have. |
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| (1243761) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 24 08:08:20 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Aug 23 17:29:42 2013. < provisions for a rail line are included in the building >So do the VZB and the GWB. What became of that ? Beware of gift horses. |
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| (1243764) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 24 08:42:41 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 24 08:08:20 2013. Told you that liberals hate rail.The SF-Oakland Bay Bridge used to have rail on its lower level (interurban service into Transbay Terminal), and they got rid of that within 19 years of the bridge opening (the former SF East Bay lines lasted only two years after its opening). |
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| (1243785) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 24 10:05:24 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 24 08:42:41 2013. Thruway Authority are not liberal, just highway nuts. These are the geniuses that claimed Rochester Subway ROW for I-490.Do you actually think if Prince Andrew's opponent had won, it would be any different ? |
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| (1243790) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 24 10:14:26 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 24 10:05:24 2013. When he says "liberal," he means "conservative." |
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| (1243832) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 24 13:54:37 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Aug 23 15:31:42 2013. A bridge is expensive - for now it's cheaper to run ~15 freights a day up the River Line and through Selkirk, or use trucks. Getting trucks off the Thruway is certainly a noble goal, no?There was an article a few years ago about the increase in River Line traffic's affect on all the neighbors along the route. These people could probably be motivated into supporting a crossing that would cut out a chunk of the traffic going through their backyards. Private industry does what is cheapest, not what is best. The gov't should be in charge of building & maintaining future infrastructure and the freight companies should just use it, the way roads work. |
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| (1243839) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 24 14:43:36 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 24 13:54:37 2013. There could also be more barge use for NJ to LI. As for freight headed for New England from NJ or points south and west, the Selkirk detour isn't necessarily that much of a detour. And finally, MNRR is going to keep freights away from south of PGH or west of New Haven except for nights. |
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| (1243842) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 24 14:51:32 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 24 10:14:26 2013. Because as we all know, conservatives take the short bus and libruls buy Hummers with rooftop gun ports. :) |
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| (1243907) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Aug 24 22:54:08 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:04:41 2013. Cross at Newburgh at the Beacon Bridge? And from there? |
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| (1243923) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 00:55:37 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Aug 24 22:54:08 2013. This is why the TZ is gonna be built now, come hell or high water, because the train people didn't make the deadline. TZ is in THAT bad a condition and it has to go. After reading the drama here, I contacted a bud of mine at Thruway authority and as tunnelrat said, there WILL be steel for trains as a provision of the bridge that's gonna be built.What HAPPENS with those trains is entirely up to sometime later when they figure out how to GET to that steel on both ends. Seems like a reasonable plan to me. |
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| (1243924) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 25 01:00:55 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Aug 24 22:54:08 2013. I-684?Remember that I-684 was designed as part of I-87. |
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| (1243929) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 02:43:37 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by nasadowsk on Fri Aug 23 22:33:31 2013. Why would it take "billions more to connect those lines"? And why would access to Manhattan by rail not be viable?So you see no benefit in an additional freight rail link either? |
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| (1243931) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 02:51:40 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 02:43:37 2013. do you have any concept of what gross weights are on freights these days? The days of half-packed reefers are LONG gone. |
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| (1243935) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 03:51:49 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 02:51:40 2013. The locomotives still outweigh them per axle, greatly, especially on container trains. Are you expecting coal trains to go across the river on this new bridge?All boils down to liberals hating trains and loving trucks and buses. |
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| (1243936) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 04:44:21 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 24 10:05:24 2013. You're getting Republicans and conservatives mixed up again. Fact is, it's getting worse under the more liberal one. (Can you even find a single actual conservative in NYS? It's like CA up in there.) |
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| (1243941) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 06:08:39 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by 3-9 on Fri Aug 23 19:40:01 2013. Oh come on. Pretending that was a problem during the time of private operation of both is not going to wash, because the railroads knew that they wouldn't survive like that. |
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| (1243942) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 06:13:43 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 23 21:09:33 2013. Baloney. Just another victim of Conjob chicanery. The way you're putting it, it burned so badly that it ought to be demolished now . . . but strangely, it is not, indicating that it could have been rebuilt.It originally had two tracks. (Pic is from 1955.)  |
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| (1243951) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 25 07:12:32 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 04:44:21 2013. I don't think you know what "liberal" or "conservative" mean.If you think Tea Party wackos Rubio, Cruz, Paul, Bachman, Perry, King of Iowa want to build passenger railroads, you're crazy. |
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| (1243954) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 25 08:12:22 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 25 01:00:55 2013. ???No I don't, and I lived in Westchester at the time. |
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| (1243957) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 25 08:21:40 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 02:43:37 2013. So you see no benefit in an additional freight rail link either?I'm not sure I do. NJ to LI or NJ to Oak Point can use a well organized system of barges if the demand is there. For NJ to New England, freight is better off going via Selkirk anyway because the MNRR commuter rail lines have serious restrictions on freight because of the heavy passenger volume. If there's more demand for NJ to NE freight (which there ought to be), increase capacity on the existing lines for a fraction of the cost of a new bridge. |
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| (1243989) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 13:51:02 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 03:51:49 2013. It's not the axles, it's the gross cumulative weight on the bridge steel. Pax trains are light compared to 400 cars. Libruls loving trucks and buses. Good one! :) |
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| (1243991) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 13:54:09 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 25 07:12:32 2013. In Olog's world, they're commies too. :) |
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| (1243992) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 14:01:54 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 25 06:13:43 2013. It went down to one track before its demise (remember, I lived there) because why? Heavier trains in the 60's and 70's exceeded the structural capacity. As to the fire, yes ... they WERE going to tear it down. Only thing that saved it after it was abandoned was the rail trail and the construction work making it suitable for a little foot traffic on top. And here's those two tracks after the steel let go ... 
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| (1243997) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 14:17:32 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 25 08:21:40 2013. Yep ... the Boston & Albany sub is only one track with room for a second one if ever needed ... plenty of existing property to expand up here. Railroad as it is isn't anywhere near saturated. |
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| (1243998) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 25 14:20:19 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 14:17:32 2013. We stayed at a motel in East Chatham earlier in the summer. A crossing by the main line a few hundred yards away and hardly any train whistles. |
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| (1243999) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 25 14:23:45 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 14:17:32 2013. Because, by the time CSX gets the freight to Boston via the River Line, and B&A, the trucker has already delivered from NJ and is on his way home if not arrived. So, only low time value freight goes around that way. Underlines why CSX was willing to sell off the last few miles into Boston to the T. |
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| (1244000) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 14:26:21 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 25 14:20:19 2013. Yep ... I forget the name of the big yard that went to on the west side of the bridge, down in Orange county, interchange yard. Most traffic went through Selkirk because that bridge leads to just about everywhere. |
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| (1244001) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 25 14:29:22 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 25 14:23:45 2013. The majority of traffic to New England through Selkirk actually comes from the west. East/west stuff is the big traffic up here, what comes up from the south, not so much since there's an interchange with NS and CP at Kenwood (city of Albany) and Mechanicville. It's single track between Selkirk and Kenwood and that's pretty light fare too.Roughly ten trains per hour though on the "Chicago bypass" and straight out over the bridge. |
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| (1244002) | |
Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 25 14:41:23 2013, in response to Re: Future rail line on the new Tappan Zee Bridge is a dud?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 25 14:23:45 2013. Rail freight never works for truly time-sensitive stuff like fresh food. With trucks, you just assemble a truck load and drive it as far as you need to. With rail, you have to assemble a whole train load, and of course that whole train load isn't all going to go to the same place. So you have to stop at yards from time to time to reassemble the train.But what percentage of stuff is so time sensitive that an extra day matters? Fresh vegetables and meat, sure, but otherwise not too much. |
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