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| MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals (1229296) | |
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| (1229308) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jun 16 16:00:20 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. Oh man, the 70's. This is what you do when you take too much acid. Just terrible ideas. Is this documented? |
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| (1229313) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 16 16:11:34 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. Oh would that the Culver Shuttle Remained the same!And the 3rd Ave El too for that matter. ROAR |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1229315) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 16:17:08 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jun 16 16:00:20 2013. Yea I found it on ebay. It was too much money so I saved the picture. |
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| (1229339) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jun 16 17:18:45 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 16:17:08 2013. I liked the "C" proposal. That would have to make use of the the crossovers just east of the closed Court/Schermerhorn station. The original "HH" route lives! |
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| (1229340) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jun 16 17:34:18 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. Didn't they also have a plan to eliminate the Jerome el, north of 161st Street and the Jamaica el, east of Cypress Hills? Or, was that another taxpayer- wasted study? |
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| (1229341) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Sun Jun 16 17:36:15 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. A double transfer to get from a Fulton local to an 8th ave local stop, that's a severe crowding issue. Thankfully this wasn't implemented. |
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| (1229348) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 18:09:12 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Jsun21 on Sun Jun 16 17:36:15 2013. According to the report this was never released. I only posted the changes to the current lines. In the report, the line changes were:A B C - 1 D - 2 E F G H - D J K - M L M - C N Q - 7 R U - 4 V - 6 W - SF Shuttle X - 42 Shuttle Y - Franklin Shuttle Z - Culver Shuttle There was no letter or number for the Third Ave El. |
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| (1229367) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Jun 16 19:28:27 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. I've seen the signage for (A) To BPK on the R46, cant remember the code.... |
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| (1229421) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 00:26:59 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by FarRock on Sun Jun 16 19:28:27 2013. What year? |
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| (1229431) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Jun 17 02:53:28 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Jsun21 on Sun Jun 16 17:36:15 2013. Passengers bound for Spring, 23rd, and 50th would have caused severe crowding? |
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| (1229434) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Mon Jun 17 03:10:19 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Jun 17 02:53:28 2013. An entire C train dumping into an A at Hoyt in order to go to ALL Manhattan stops would. |
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| (1229436) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 03:13:59 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. strange routings of these lines. |
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| (1229440) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 17 03:42:45 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 03:13:59 2013. Sounds almost made up, a la Chipper10.Not very good news. |
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| (1229462) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 17 08:44:45 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. Wasn't there also a time when they were trying to get at least some 8th Ave lines to serve the Brighton, and some 6th Ave lines to serve Ozone Park and the Rockaways?If you have all locals, without exception, that serve West 4th St, "flip" and change mainlines, I believe there are no switching conflicts and so this idea was born whenever it was. |
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| (1229465) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 09:09:17 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. I doubt it; at least anything official and not a perverse fantasy map.I was privy to most goings-on of that type at the TA at the time, and know nothing of this. And they hadn't gone to all single-letter routes ye as well. You said you saved the picture from eBay? Well... |
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| (1229466) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 09:09:58 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jun 16 17:34:18 2013. Never heard of either of those. |
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| (1229469) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 09:23:41 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 09:09:17 2013. Yes on ebay, the guy who designed the 1964 map it said. |
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| (1229475) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Jun 17 10:55:40 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jun 16 17:34:18 2013. they wanted to eliminate the Jamaica el as you said,but the eastern end was to be connected to the Montauk branch using the old Richmond hill station & using the 63st.tunnel via a conn.in sunnyside yard.another waste of the taxpayers money.the Jerome el. I don`t remember reading about. |
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| (1229492) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by lance52 on Mon Jun 17 13:00:07 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 09:09:17 2013. Yeah, if you have a picture, I'm sure we'd all love to see it. |
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| (1229501) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 13:31:30 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 09:09:17 2013. I started working the schedule office in 1976 and I remember seeing that map although I don't know the exact date of its first publication. What I did notice is that it seemed that the TA wanted to do away with numbers entirely and have all lines, including the IRT, lettered. |
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| (1229508) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 13:45:35 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. Sounds like it's this map. I've posted this before but can't find any of the old threads now. From what I understand, the proposal was the work of the great and recently departed Bill "Ektachrome" Armstrong during his tenure at the MTA. |
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| (1229509) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 13:48:26 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 13:31:30 2013. Yea that's the exact map! |
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| (1229511) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 17 13:57:13 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 13:45:35 2013. Whoa!The entire IND Second System built, and yet only one line running past Euclid to serve the entire Rockaways and Lefferts Blvd. LOL |
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| (1229517) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 14:27:09 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 13:45:35 2013. That's an interesting map. Are you sure that wasn't somebody's idea of a fantasy map, not any kind of actual proposal?I drafted a fantasy map when I worked for Hagstrom. I was about half finished when the Old Man himself looked at it. His comment: "Paul has too much free time." |
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| (1229521) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 14:42:12 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 14:27:09 2013. It was a 26 page report. |
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| (1229524) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 14:49:26 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 14:42:12 2013. Is the map RIPTA42HopeTunnel put up the one you saw? |
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| (1229525) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Mon Jun 17 14:56:05 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 16:17:08 2013. Do you have a link to the eBay posting?--Mark |
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| (1229526) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jun 17 14:57:35 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 13:45:35 2013. MTA PLAN FOR ACTION routes.. |
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| (1229527) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 15:11:42 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jun 17 14:57:35 2013. planned in 1968. |
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| (1229534) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 15:39:46 2013, in response to MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Sun Jun 16 15:38:55 2013. In addition to the lack of any map or document to look at, these route proposals make no sense at all. Like a "D" designation for a service from Forest Hills to Coney Island? Wot??? |
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| (1229538) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 15:48:42 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 14:49:26 2013. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extremely-rare-unpublished-map-of-New-York-City-subway-system-/321139515145?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac5681f09 |
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| (1229539) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 15:51:17 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 13:45:35 2013. It looks similar but no, the destinations are different for some lines and the Third Ave El is shown. |
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| (1229540) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 15:53:13 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 15:39:46 2013. yep. that D route is a little bizarre |
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| (1229541) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 15:55:41 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jun 17 14:57:35 2013. MTA PLAN FOR ACTION routes..I think it's a fleshing out/refinement of the 1968 Program for Action (with the addition of stations, for one), but there are several notable differences: - The 1970 plan doesn't have the Pelham extension to Co-Op City. - No extension of the Concourse line. - No Queens Boulevard super-express. - Flatlands Avenue gets a branch off the Canarsie line instead of the Livonia. - Canarise line is extended to Flatbush & Nostrand. - Utica Avenue subway appears. The Nostrand Avenue IRT is routed to Nostrand & Avenue W instead of Kings Plaza via Flatbush Avenue. - The Avenue C connector is added. |
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| (1229543) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 15:59:37 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 15:39:46 2013. Like a "D" designation for a service from Forest Hills to Coney Island? Wot???He meant D as in West End. It's actually H in the plan. Queens Blvd local from 71st Street, 60th Street tunnel, Broadway express, Manhattan Bridge, skips DeKalb rush hours, Fourth Avenue express, West End local to Coney Island. |
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| (1229544) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 16:03:09 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 13:45:35 2013. From what I understand, the proposal was the work of the great and recently departed Bill "Ektachrome" Armstrong during his tenure at the MTA.Scratch that. After reading the e-Bay link, I remember it was Bill who told me it was the Raleigh D'Adamo plan. |
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| (1229545) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 17 16:04:31 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 15:59:37 2013. If Bway was the Manhattan trunk line and was to take the West End Branch, it should have been T.Nonetheless, it overall looked like a pretty savage service cut on CPW and the Bronx. |
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| (1229546) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 16:06:06 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 15:55:41 2013. Also, if you notice, the SAS was to have been connected to both the Dyre Av Line and the Wh Pl Rd Line N/O E180. Original SAS plans did call for the line to reclaim the Pelham Line but as I mentioned in several posts on the SAS, that plan was changed. It's too bad that the IRT wasn't extended to Kings Plaza. If it had been I might have kept my house and still be living there instead of moving to more subway friendly Bay Ridge. |
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| (1229547) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 16:06:16 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 15:59:37 2013. D as in west end? don't you mean D as in brighton?and why would the D run down the broadway line? the D is a 6th avenue route. |
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| (1229548) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 16:12:46 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 16:06:16 2013. D as in west end? don't you mean D as in brighton?No; BusRider was using the current convention of D as West End to describe the map. and why would the D run down the broadway line? the D is a 6th avenue route. It's H on the actual plan. The B takes care of Brighton, and only the B and F run on Sixth Avenue. D is assigned to the West Side IRT. |
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| (1229549) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 16:13:56 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 16:12:46 2013. oh, ok. i got confused there for a sec. thanks for clearing that up. |
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| (1229550) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 16:14:06 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 16:06:16 2013. That proposal totally destroyed the traditional lettered BMT/IND route combinations by lettering the numbered IRT routes. I have a photo of an R-1 mockup likely made circa 1930 which showed a number in the route sign box . It seems that prior to the adoption of the single/double letter route system, it was intended that the IND continue the BMT's route naming system that was established circa 1923. Considering the large number of routes on the combined BMT/IND Division it would have been more logical to use numbers for the BMT/IND routes since those route would eventually see greater expansion and use letters for the IRT. either that or just use route numbers for everything since there is a limited number of letters but numbers are virtually limitless. |
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| (1229553) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 16:17:47 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 15:51:17 2013. It looks similar but no, the destinations are different for some lines and the Third Ave El is shown.The Third Avenue El is on mine, too, but rebuilt with fewer stations, extended north to "Woodlawn," and through routed to New Lots and Kings Plaza via the Lex ("U") instead of the Dyre Avenue line. I think mine is a "phase two;" the one in the auction has a lot fewer extensions and no Second Avenue subway. |
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| (1229561) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 16:22:01 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by BusRider on Mon Jun 17 15:48:42 2013. Thank you! Raleigh D'Amato did that? I'm amazed. |
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| (1229564) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jun 17 16:22:29 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 14:27:09 2013. geez.that the MTA PLAN FOR ACTION routes map. |
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| (1229565) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 16:23:11 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 17 15:59:37 2013. Still makes no sense. In 1970 the West End was not the D train. Brighton was. |
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| (1229566) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 16:23:26 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 16:22:01 2013. i wish he made the link clickable though |
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| (1229572) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 16:26:16 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 17 16:23:11 2013. exactly. i said the same thing in my other post about this |
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| (1229582) | |
Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jun 17 16:46:30 2013, in response to Re: MTA Internal 1970 Route Proposals, posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 17 16:04:31 2013. Not exactly..They planned on operating two services on each..the A local/A express..B local B express. to replace AA/CC trains. On the Brighton..same thing applied..the B local served as the Brighton 6th ave local from Concourse...while the 207th st train operated as the express along Central pk west 6th ave and the Brighton line. Same for the A..Concourse service was the 8th avenue local..Washington Hts the 8th avenue express.. The Fulton local made little sense..but you can understand why such a route was created like the old HH shuttle..[A 8th ave local trains would continue in Brooklyn as the Fulton express..The new M service would make all local stops.] |
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