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(1162827)

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Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Gold_12TH on Wed Jun 20 16:13:56 2012

" Ms. (Elizabeth) Crowley said she wanted to be a voice on women’s health issues in Washington, and dreamed of extending the No. 7 train to La Guardia Airport. She scoffed at the notion that she was a “spoiler” candidate, saying that “I guarantee I’m known better in my own district” than her opponents are in theirs. "

--- http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/nyregion/as-queens-looks-to-fill-a-congressional-seat-the-democratic-race-is-wide-open.html?ref=nyregion

(1162829)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 20 16:18:23 2012, in response to Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Gold_12TH on Wed Jun 20 16:13:56 2012.

Perhaps, Ms Crowley should stick to women's health issues! Unless she has a plan to add a 4th track to the structure, in addition to the airport spur!

(1162830)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by geoffc on Wed Jun 20 16:24:08 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 20 16:18:23 2012.

And two more tunnels next to the Steinway tubes IND width! :)

(1162834)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 20 16:38:19 2012, in response to Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Gold_12TH on Wed Jun 20 16:13:56 2012.

Because the #1 issue to the women of Queens is rail access to LaGuardia?

(1162837)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 16:40:31 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 20 16:38:19 2012.

Freedom Of Subway . . .

(1162841)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 16:48:57 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 20 16:18:23 2012.

It's not that far fetched.

The major capacity constraint with the Flushing Line is terminal capacity at Main Street. A spur line leaving at 111th St to a useful terminal would mean no service reduction at Main St, the line's busiest station while increasing intermediate station service.

The spur is obvious, go through the Corona Yard and pick up the LIRR Whitestone Branch ROW to Flushing Bay. Then go along Grand Central Parkway to LGA. The distance is 4 miles, approximately the same distance as from the Astoria Line. Unlike the Astoria Line extension proposals, there are no home owners along this route.

The bigger question is whether any LGA train is justified. The airport cannot be expanded and is already operating at capacity. The construction will be expensive without providing service to residential areas not currently served. There should be better uses for scarce capital funds.

(1162844)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 20 16:53:54 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 16:48:57 2012.

You'd be diverting half the #7 service from Main Street.

(1162846)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 20 17:01:23 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 16:48:57 2012.

Well, there's always the IND up Steinway to 21st Ave to LGA. With stops at Ditmars and Hazen.

(1162847)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Dave on Wed Jun 20 17:03:36 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 16:40:31 2012.

I think in her case, FOS stands for something else....

(1162852)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Outside the Box on Wed Jun 20 18:20:47 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 20 16:53:54 2012.

Once CBTC comes online, they can run more trains. Send 20tph to Main St and 10-15 tph to LGA/East Elmhurst.

(1162854)

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M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Wed Jun 20 18:33:39 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 16:48:57 2012.

Taking over the freight line ROW (that is grade separated and built for two tracks) from Metropolitan Ave to would be much easier than building a spur from the 7 train.

This line would serve communities with rail service that currently have none, and also provide convenient bus connections.

For Example
Metropolitan Ave...

Current Freight ROW...

Elliot Ave
Grand Ave-57th Ave
51st Ave
Queens Blvd
Woodside Ave
Roosevelt-74th St (In-System Connection)
Northern Blvd

BQE-GCP ROW...

Astoria 82nd St

GCP ROW...

94th ST-Terminal B
Terminals C&D
Northern Blvd

Alongside Roosevelt Ave
Mets-Willets Point

Flushing Main ST in a new integrated subway terminal with the 7 train including an in-house connection to the LIRR, also a befitting LIRR train station for the town of Flushing.

The hard part of the engineering job has already been completed. The bridge under Roosevelt Ave at 70th St, and the bridge over the BQE. The BQE bridge is perfect for an AirTrain like connection to LGA and for extension to Flushing Main St, and beyond.

Freight trains can be re-routed up the Lower Montauk ROW.

(1162855)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 18:34:31 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Outside the Box on Wed Jun 20 18:20:47 2012.

Once CBTC comes online, they can run more trains

Not needed for more trains. PATH ran 40 TPH through Exchange Place without anything like that.

(1162856)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 18:38:49 2012, in response to M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Wed Jun 20 18:33:39 2012.

Taking over the freight line ROW (that is grade separated and built for two tracks) from Metropolitan Ave to would be much easier than building a spur from the 7 train

No it would not. That is not abandoned, besides.

(1162859)

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M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Wed Jun 20 18:42:53 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 18:38:49 2012.

" That is not abandoned, besides."

That's why it's easy, and an easier sell to the Middle Village NIMBY'S.

(1162862)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 20 18:57:57 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 16:48:57 2012.

Except that extending the 7 from 111 is far more circuitous from Manhattan than extending the N from Astoria.

(1162867)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 20 19:41:25 2012, in response to M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Wed Jun 20 18:42:53 2012.

The easiest way to run subway service to build an extension from Astoria Blvd down the GCP and route the N train. In reality, the easiest thing to do is to connect Astoria Blvd to LGA via an Airtrain.

(1162869)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 19:43:02 2012, in response to Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 20 19:41:25 2012.

Nope; Airtrain too expensive in terms of capital costs.

(1162871)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 20 19:46:53 2012, in response to Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 19:43:02 2012.

Any rail link will be expensive. I doubt the PA will want the subway system controlling rail access. If they want to run a train to LGA, the cheapest alternative is an Airtrain down the GCP median connecting to the Astoria line.

(1162872)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 19:50:06 2012, in response to Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 20 19:46:53 2012.

Airtrain with their linear induction motors? EWR Airtrain and their monorail . . . ?

The PA needs to be broken up.

(1162876)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 20 19:59:03 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 18:34:31 2012.

Wasn't that when they were keying by red signals ?

(1162877)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 20 20:19:45 2012, in response to Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 19:50:06 2012.

The PA is a revenue generating agency. You are in no position to demand that they be broken up.

(1162884)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 20:58:26 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 20 16:53:54 2012.

You'd be diverting half the #7 service from Main Street.

During the morning rush hour 1/4 of the trains (half the locals) originate and terminate at 111th St.

(1162885)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 21:04:18 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Outside the Box on Wed Jun 20 18:20:47 2012.

Once CBTC comes online, they can run more trains. Send 20tph to Main St and 10-15 tph to LGA/East Elmhurst.

Back when they ran 36tph on the Flushing Line, the were able to handle 23 tph at Main St. The others ran from Willets Point (7tph) and 111th (6tph). BTW, CBTC wasn't online back then.

(1162888)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Jun 20 21:48:02 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 20 17:01:23 2012.

With an at-grade crossing north of Steinway Street.

(1162910)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Jun 20 23:59:02 2012, in response to Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 20 19:41:25 2012.

How do you propose routing the line past the Hell Gate Line, which crosses the GCP/Astoria Boulevard east of Steinway Street?

(1162920)

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Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 21 04:42:52 2012, in response to M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Wed Jun 20 18:33:39 2012.

I like the idea, but it would have the (M) cross with itself at Roosevelt Boulevard as you would do it.

What I would do in this instance is to have the (J) and (M) swap terminals in Queens ((M) would go to Jamaica Center while the (J) would go to LaGuardia), which would likely force the (M) into becoming a full-time train to 71st-Continental and on weekends when the (E) would be local in Queens could actually run a loop terminating on both platforms at Jamaica Center if needed.

Just a thought.

(1162923)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by merrick1 on Thu Jun 21 06:49:04 2012, in response to Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 20 19:50:06 2012.

The Airtrains are examples of cutting edge design, World's Fair technology in the real world.

A lot of work went into using linear induction motors on such a large scale.

The switches on the EWR monorail are an interesting solution to the problem of monorail switches. For a long time monorails were mostly loops because switches were a problem.



(1162935)

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Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jun 21 07:47:18 2012, in response to Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 21 04:42:52 2012.

Honestly, I thing that would confuse more people than it would help.

(1162937)

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Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jun 21 07:48:16 2012, in response to Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 21 04:42:52 2012.

Honestly, I think that would confuse more people than it would help.

(1162944)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 21 08:11:49 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 20:58:26 2012.

And the rest of the day ?
If they are running 6 minute intervals, then you have too few trains serving Main Street.

(1162966)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jun 21 09:33:13 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 21 08:11:49 2012.

And the rest of the day ?

LGA is not a big enough destination to justify the cost of building or operating a subway line. Airtrain at JFK averaged 6900 one-way daily passengers in March 2012. There more than 200 stations with more than that average total.

Demand for transportation is related to the number of passengers. JFK handles about twice the number of paying passengers as LGA. Using some fudge factor because LGA has more local passengers, one can assume demand for LGA service would be in the 5000 daily passengers range. That would mean there are 272 stations that are more heavily used.

An LGA spur would benefit riders between 111th and Manhattan with more frequent rush hour service. That's where the ridership increase has been over the last 15 years. As for the LGA demand, they could be handled by a dinky that operates between Woodside and LGA with a stop at 74th St.

(1162988)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jun 21 11:35:37 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 20 17:01:23 2012.

I think that's better than extending the N or building an spur off of the 7 or an Airtrain connecting with either line. Both the Flushing and Astoria lines are already very heavily used. Why overcrowd them with LGA-bound riders? Extending the M to LGA from Steinway Street would be better because it would be a more direct service that would bring riders from LGA to Midtown faster than the N or 7 because it could have fewer stops than a Flushing line spur or an Astoria Line extension. And it wouldn't face the same level of NIMBY opposition that an N extension would.

(1162992)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jun 21 11:45:06 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jun 21 09:33:13 2012.

True, but JFK is open and flying 24/7 while the first flight from LGA is not until 0600.
If there are 272 stations that are more heavily used than the proposed LGA subway stations(s), then that would make the stop busier than roughly half of the stations in the NYC subway system. Compared to other cities with rail connections to much bigger and busier airports that would be phenomenal ridership.

An accordion shuttle bus running between Woodside LIRR, 74th St-Roosevelt Ave, LGA, and Flushing Main-St, is something I would definantly support and could be implemented today. I would also support the extention of the Q33 bus to Woodside LIRR.

(1162993)

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Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jun 21 11:45:29 2012, in response to M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Wed Jun 20 18:33:39 2012.

That would be a real roundabout way of getting to LGA. I'm in favor of extending the M to LGA, but why not just have it leave the Queens Blvd line at Steinway Street, run via Steinway up to the GCP right-of-way, then follow the GCP to LaGuardia? That would be a faster, more direct route into Midtown Manhattan.

(1162994)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Outside the Box on Thu Jun 21 11:48:30 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 21:04:18 2012.

They also used to run shorter train and and key by red signals. The present signals are also set more conservatively. Current emergency braking performance seems to be less than in the past. Organizational practices might had been better then too. Just having crew in place before trains are pull into terminals speed up turnaround time, esp at 111th st and Willets Pt.

Running 40tph requires low station dwell time. The time allotted seems to be 30-40 seconds, depending on train performance. You need better railcar interior and door layouts than what is present on A division for that.

(1162995)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Jun 21 11:58:20 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by geoffc on Wed Jun 20 16:24:08 2012.

That's what should have been done for ESA instead of what they are doing now.

(1162996)

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Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Jun 21 12:03:26 2012, in response to Re: M to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by merrick1 on Thu Jun 21 06:49:04 2012.

A lot of work went into using linear induction motors on such a large scale.

They've been used on a much larger scale outside of the US.

For a long time monorails were mostly loops because switches were a problem.

No, they weren't a problem. See Seattle? Tokyo? Wuppertal?

(1163004)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jun 21 12:41:28 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Outside the Box on Thu Jun 21 11:48:30 2012.

They also used to run shorter train

They ran 11 car trains after the 64-65 World's Fair. They ran 36 tph until the financial crisis of the 1970's.

They ran 9 car trains in 1954, when the TA documented 36tph operation in their annual report. The difference in train length, means the leader must travel further to clear the signals behind him when leaving a station. The two extra cars comes to 102 feet. At 30 mph, this comes to 2.3 seconds additional headway time. If there were no recovery time for 36 tph operation, the extra length would reduce service levels to 35.3 tph.

key by red signals.

That's a red herring. Keying by was not necessary to maintain peak service levels. If you run a simulation, you will discover that 40 tph operation is possible without encountering even a yellow signal.

Current emergency braking performance seems to be less than in the past.

That was certainly demonstrated by the NTSB tests after the Williamsburg Bridge crash. However, the effect of poorer emergency braking performance on service level capacity is easy to calculate. In fact, it's exactly the same calculation made above for longer trains.

Emergency braking rates determine minimum spacing between trains. The more important braking factor in determining maximum service levels is service braking rates. These have not changed - as demonstrated by the NTSB tests after the Williamsburg Bridge collision.

Organizational practices might had been better then too. Just having crew in place before trains are pull into terminals speed up turnaround time, esp at 111th st and Willets Pt.

+1
However, that's neither an equipment nor a safety issue. It's simply an acknowledgement that the people in charge should know what to do. BTW, don't leave out Main St and Times Sq, where crews have to be waiting.

Running 40tph requires low station dwell time. The time allotted seems to be 30-40 seconds, depending on train performance.

40 tph means 90 second headways. The 90 seconds consists of 30 seconds of braking time, 30 seconds of acceleration time and 30 seconds of dwell time. If you bother to time the actual acceleration and braking times, you will find that both come in between 20 and 30 seconds.

You need better railcar interior and door layouts than what is present on A division for that.

Division A interiors have been consistent since the introduction the the LV-WF cars in 1939. They ran 36tph with R12/14/15's and R33/36's. The interior dimensions are virtually identical to the R62's currently operating. The interior designs are not that much different than the R142's that would be used with CBTC.


(1163006)

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Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jun 21 12:43:44 2012, in response to Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jun 21 11:45:29 2012.

That would cut local capacity farther down the line for future service needs and reactivation of the Rockaway ROW.

(1163008)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jun 21 12:47:47 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Jun 21 11:58:20 2012.

That's what should have been done for ESA instead of what they are doing now.

They did not need the extra tunnels. They are currently operating 24 tph on the Flushing Line. It's sufficient because more people leave at Queensboro Plaza than get on. Peak volume on the Flushing Line is approaching Queensboro Plaza.

They could have built an intermodal transfer station at Hunters Point where Flushing Line trains could loop. This would have given them an additional 12 tph between Hunters Point and Times Square.

(1163013)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jun 21 12:58:10 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jun 21 11:45:06 2012.

An accordion shuttle bus running between Woodside LIRR, 74th St-Roosevelt Ave, LGA, and Flushing Main-St, is something I would definantly support and could be implemented today. I would also support the extention of the Q33 bus to Woodside LIRR.

Operating express service to LGA is a money loser, even for bus service.

My inclusion of Woodside for the off peak dinky to LGA was based more on the availability of a reversing track than on the LIRR link.

(1163022)

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Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jun 21 13:35:36 2012, in response to Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jun 21 12:43:44 2012.

Run more R trains to make up for the loss of the M. As for the Rockaway r.o.w., that can still be restored by extending the Rock Park Shuttle up the old r.o.w. to a transferstation at Woodhaven and Queens Blvds.

(1163026)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 13:41:25 2012, in response to Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Gold_12TH on Wed Jun 20 16:13:56 2012.

Of course I support direct subway service to both NYC airports...but didn't NIMBYs kill a plan to extend the N there some years ago?

(1163032)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jun 21 14:02:32 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 13:41:25 2012.

The problem with that plan was that it didn't provide for local stops.
Also no one had the courage to do what was more feasible, tearing down the last two stops and curving the line over the GCP, while providing new local stops for Astoria residents to use.

(1163033)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Outside the Box on Thu Jun 21 14:04:05 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jun 21 12:47:47 2012.

The Flushing Line could use 3 more peak direction local trains 7AM-9AM Those get up to crush capacity along Queens Blvd. With the residential apartments and condos going up in LIC, the section from Vernon-Jackson to Queensboro Plaza will see increased ridership.

(1163034)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 14:04:42 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 20 16:48:57 2012.

Does the Whitestone ROW still legally exist? I know it was used as a spur for dead storage at least into the 1970s...

(1163035)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Outside the Box on Thu Jun 21 14:06:50 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 14:04:42 2012.

The MTA still owns the land along the Flushing River on the Willets Pt side.

(1163037)

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Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jun 21 14:10:11 2012, in response to Re: M Train to LGA is Easier Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jun 21 13:35:36 2012.

That still leaves you with only a potential max of 24tph between Steinway and Continental assuming the LGA M train only runs once every ten minutes. I'm thinking of capacity issues in the future with the city population growing and Queens Blvd getting
more and more crowded.

There is also the added cost of building a subway and the flying junctions to connect to the existing local tracks.

(1163041)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 14:30:08 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by Outside the Box on Thu Jun 21 14:06:50 2012.

Ok...that's interesting.

(1163047)

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Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?

Posted by Concourse Express on Thu Jun 21 14:53:57 2012, in response to Re: Crowley Wants (7) Train to LaGuardia Airport ?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jun 21 14:02:32 2012.

The problem with that plan was that it didn't provide for local stops.

So you're saying the NIMBY's would've stopped resisting if stations were added? I thought the opposition was over an extension of the el period (with or wihtout new stations)...

Also no one had the courage to do what was more feasible, tearing down the last two stops and curving the line over the GCP, while providing new local stops for Astoria residents to use.

Why would one do this though? Astoria Blvd and Ditmars each have decent ridership (though I assume you'd probably implement a new Astoria Blvd station in the GCP alignment). In any case, there are other possibilities for LGA service (i.e. Triboro alignment + spur to LGA, new construction a-la AirTrain, or even the short-term solution of +SBS (M60 and/or that Bx50 (?) proposal))...

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