Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project

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Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Apr 10 13:30:43 2012 edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d 29 page PDF report from United States Government Accountability Office: link to download Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey exaggerated when he declared that unforeseen costs to the state were forcing him to cancel the new train tunnel planned to relieve congested routes across the Hudson River, according to a long-awaited report by independent Congressional investigators. The report by the Government Accountability Office, to be released this week, found that while Mr. Christie said that state transportation officials had revised cost estimates for the tunnel to at least $11 billion and potentially more than $14 billion, the range of estimates had in fact remained unchanged in the two years before he announced in 2010 that he was shutting down the project. And state transportation officials, the report says, had said the cost would be no more than $10 billion. Mr. Christie also misstated New Jersey’s share of the costs: he said the state would pay 70 percent of the project; the report found that New Jersey was paying 14.4 percent. And while the governor said that an agreement with the federal government would require the state to pay all cost overruns, the report found that there was no final agreement, and that the federal government had made several offers to share those costs. Canceling the tunnel, then the largest public works project in the nation, helped shape Mr. Christie’s profile as a rising Republican star, an enforcer of fiscal discipline in a country drunk on debt. But the report is likely to revive criticism that his decision, which he said was about “hard choices” in tough economic times, was more about avoiding the need to raise the state’s gasoline tax, which would have violated a campaign promise. The governor subsequently steered $4 billion earmarked for the tunnel to the state’s near-bankrupt transportation trust fund, traditionally financed by the gasoline tax. A spokesman for the governor, Michael Drewniak, said Mr. Christie’s statement of costs had included $775 million to build a new portal bridge, which was required as part of the project. The 70 percent, he said, included the costs that would have been paid for by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is run by both states, as well as federal highway and stimulus funds earmarked for New Jersey. Counting those costs, which the report does not do, would put the state’s share at 65.5 percent. As for the state’s share of the overruns, Mr. Drewniak said the federal government “offered no significant increase in outright funding that would significantly mitigate the costs to New Jersey.” “The bottom line is that the G.A.O. report simply bears out what we said in the fall of 2010 and say to this day: the ARC project was a very, very bad deal for New Jersey,” he added, using the acronym for the project, known as Access to the Region’s Core. Martin E. Robins, the founding director of the Alan M. Voorhees Transportation Center at Rutgers University and an early director of the ARC project, criticized the governor. “In hindsight, it’s apparent that he had a highly important political objective: to cannibalize the project so he could find an alternate way of keeping the transportation trust fund program moving, and he went ahead and did it,” he said. Shutting down the tunnel project extinguished the best hope to relieve the increasing congestion not only between New Jersey and Manhattan, but also along the popular high-speed route between Boston and Washington. Now, Amtrak and New Jersey trains share two 100-year-old single-track tunnels under the Hudson. As the report notes, those tracks now operate at capacity, and demand for mass transit between New Jersey and Manhattan is expected to grow 38 percent by 2030. One 15-minute disruption, the report said, ripples out to affect 15 other Amtrak and New Jersey trains. Last month, problems on the two tracks on two consecutive days sent delays rippling out along the Northeast. The governor said when he canceled the project that he hoped New York City or federal officials would find another solution But last week, the chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said one of those, a proposed extension of the No. 7 subway line to New Jersey, was not going to happen “in anybody’s lifetime.” Congress gave Amtrak $15 million to study a tunnel that would expand capacity by about half as much as the ARC project, but the money to build the tunnel is uncertain. The Government Accountability Office, the nonpartisan investigative arm of Congress, did the report at the request of Senator Frank R. Lautenberg of New Jersey, a Democrat who is the chairman of the Senate subcommittee on surface transportation, an ardent supporter of public transportation and a critic of Mr. Christie. Investigators spent a year examining official planning studies and estimates for the project and interviewing people associated with it. Mr. Christie supported the tunnel in his campaign in 2009 and in letters to the federal Transportation Department as late as April 2010, four months after he took office. When he canceled it, he said that he supported the merits of the project, but that the state could not afford it, and that he would not put New Jersey taxpayers on “a never-ending hook” to pay for it. In announcing his decision, Mr. Christie said he was relying on the advice of his ARC steering committee, led by New Jersey Transit officials, which he said had revised estimates and found that the tunnel would “cost no less than $11 billion and could exceed $14 billion.” The report, however, found that the estimates had not changed since August 2008, 17 months before Mr. Christie took office. New Jersey Transit and federal officials had agreed on a baseline cost of $8.7 billion, which was the figure cited in news reports, but they had also agreed, first in 2008 and then a month before Mr. Christie canceled the project, that costs would range from $9.5 billion to $12.4 billion. When federal officials argued, six weeks before Mr. Christie canceled the project, that it might cost $13.7 billion, the report said, state officials replied that they “did not see costs rising to this level” and said the project would cost, at most, $10 billion. Federal officials, in response, backed off that higher estimate. But Mr. Drewniak, the spokesman for Mr. Christie, said Monday that the fluctuating estimates suggested that no one really knew how much the project would cost. “The governor was prudent to cancel the project, given the vast disagreement between professionals,” he said. Mr. Christie further explained his decision by saying that the financing agreement with the federal government required him to declare that New Jersey would pay any costs above the $8.7 billion. That is the standard procedure for full-financing agreements, but the report found that there was no agreement when Mr. Christie canceled the project, and that the federal government, which was already paying 51 percent of the costs, had offered to help with any cost overruns, pledging additional money, low-interest railroad loans and public-private financing. Before Mr. Christie declared the tunnel dead, his transportation advisers told state legislators that they had discussed taking money from the project to fill the transportation trust fund, which was almost empty. Since then, the governor has steered $4 billion in tunnel money to the trust fund, avoiding an increase in the state’s gasoline tax, the second lowest in the nation. Mr. Drewniak criticized Mr. Lautenberg for the report, saying that he should have arranged more federal money for the project. “He needs to stop blaming others for his failure in leadership,” he said. --- http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/nyregion/report-disputes-christies-reason-for-halting-tunnel-project-in-2010.html?pagewanted=all
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by RiverLINE3501* on Tue Apr 10 13:54:24 2012, in response to Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Apr 10 13:30:43 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Jabba the Hutt should have taken more time to get all of the facts before shooting off his big fat mouth about the project, but he had to grandstand and make a show of this to prove his "Fiscal Responsibility" to the taxpayers. Now we're doomed to 10 to 15 more years of a bottleneck that may have been releived by ARC.
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by Olog-hai* on Tue Apr 10 14:29:57 2012, in response to Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Apr 10 13:30:43 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d NY Times? They're misrepresenting something.
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by znufrii* on Tue Apr 10 14:45:33 2012, in response to Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 10 14:29:57 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d would you care to share with the rest of us what you think it is they're misrepresenting?
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Apr 10 15:09:40 2012, in response to Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by RiverLINE3501 on Tue Apr 10 13:54:24 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The ARC plan was crap, the only downside is that the $4 reserved for a new tunnel is now filling in potholes on bullshit local roads.
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by Jersey Mike* on Tue Apr 10 15:10:25 2012, in response to Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by znufrii on Tue Apr 10 14:45:33 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d His gut says so. Facts have a well known liberal bias.
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by Olog-hai* on Tue Apr 10 15:12:00 2012, in response to Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Apr 10 15:10:25 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Facts have a well known liberal bias If that were true, why do they keep flying in the faces of liberals? Let's go ask that producer that NBC allegedly "fired" for making a "mistake" . . .
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by Jersey Mike* on Tue Apr 10 15:18:43 2012, in response to Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 10 15:12:00 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d So because Fox news never admits its mistakes its more accurate? BTW why don't you present some data instead of an anecdote.
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by RiverLINE3501 on Tue Apr 10 16:36:28 2012, in response to Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Apr 10 15:18:43 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Fox Noise never makes a mistake because they make it up as they go along. If it is proved to be wrong, they ignore it and just say that "it was taken ot of context".
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Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project
Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Apr 11 10:34:07 2012, in response to Re: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by RiverLINE3501 on Tue Apr 10 16:36:28 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d They have a point. If their context is "this isn't news, but entertainment", then yeah...they can say whatever they want. It's like trying to criticize the ~~WWF~~ WWE.
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Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Apr 29 02:32:28 2012, in response to Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Apr 10 13:30:43 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Newark Star-Ledger What the heck? The Times gets the tunnel wrong again Published: Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 3:49 PM \| Updated: Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 4:16 PM By Paul Mulshine/The Star Ledger I've noted before that the people who run the New York Times seem to have not the vaguest notion of just how their island is connected to New Jersey. Now it seems they don't understand who runs their subway system either. There was an article in Wednesday's Times on Chris Christie's response to a soon-to-be-released study on the canceled ARC Tunnel. In it, we come across this puzzling passage about the governor's views: While the tunnel would have expanded the number of subway lines available to those who commute to Pennsylvania Station in New York City, he characterized it on Tuesday as a dead-end to a department store. Huh? ARC had nothing to do with expanding subway lines. The plan called for two tunnels carrying NJ Transit trains, not MTA subways. And the new tunnels could not have expanded subway access for those who commute to Penn Station for the simple reason that they would not have gone to Penn Station. They would have gone to a new station to be built deep underground right next to Penn Station. The reporter seems to be talking about an entirely different project, the proposal by Mayor Mike Bloomberg to extend the No. 7 subway to New Jersey. That's a good idea, though the MTA chief recently nixed it. But it had nothing to do with ARC. And then there's this: The tunnel would have doubled capacity for commuters on New Jersey Transit and Amtrak trains, (my italics) which now share two 100-year-old single track tunnels to cross the Hudson. The tracks are at capacity, and commuter demand is expected to rise 38 percent by 2030. No, it wouldn't have. Amtrak trains could not have used the tunnels for the simple reason that the tracks would have dead-ended deep under New York City and Amtrak trains need to continue north to Boston. That's why Amtrak chief Joseph Boardman said he opposed the ARC plan at a press conference last year. But at least this Times reporter realizes there are two NJ Transit tunnels. When I did a column on ARC errors by Times columnist Paul Krugman last year, I wrote this: Krugman went on to add, "right now there’s just one century-old rail tunnel linking New Jersey and New York — and it’s running close to capacity." Krugman is a brilliant guy. But like most New Yorkers, he needs to get out more. In fact, there are six rail tunnels connecting New Jersey and Manhattan. Two run to Penn Station and are shared by NJ Transit and Amtrak. Four others are used by PATH trains. The ARC plan would add an additional two for a total of eight. But who’s counting? Certainly not the Times staff. Read that entire column of mine for a list of other elementary Times errors on ARC. No wonder these guys supported the ARC project. If it would have increased subway capacity to New Jersey, added Amtrak access to New York, and done all the other wonderful stuff they report, you'd have to be crazy to oppose it. Unfortunately, you'd have to be crazy to take the Times seriously when they keep getting such basic facts wrong. The funny thing it, the Times reporters actually do a very good job of reporting on faraway places as Afghanistan. But Jersey? That's really a foreign country when seen from Manhattan.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by SLRT* on Sun Apr 29 08:11:44 2012, in response to Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 02:32:28 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Christie made the right decision at the right time for New Jersey. As a long-time transit advocate, I would have liked to see the ARC (or equivalent) built, as well as the 7 to connections in Jersey. But as a person knowledgeable in the dynamics of regional politics, I also understand that that the ARC, like ESA, would improve the lives of commuters, but would also reinforce New York City's lock on the region's economic life.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 29 08:28:38 2012, in response to Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 02:32:28 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d THE tunnel would have increased the number of subway lines available to those who commute to Penn Station because the bunker would have been further east than the existing station and would have had underground passages to the Herald Square station making the D, F, B, M, N, R, and Q available to commuters to Penn Station. That is what I thought the article meant when I first read the Times story.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 29 10:02:01 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 29 08:28:38 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The escalators from the bunker would actually let you off further west than the Bunker itself, so the Herald Square subway lines would have still have been a schlep. Other than 6th Ave in the 40's, these subway lines don't add any value to the 7th & 8th Avenue subway. You are better off on the E for E53rd Street than the M since it runs more often, and the 1/2/3 are faster to downtown that sweating out the R.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 13:08:31 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by SLRT on Sun Apr 29 08:11:44 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, ARC wouldn't have been as good as all the cheerleaders claimed. That's why Amtrak was planning Gateway no matter if ARC was built or not. I certainly would not have liked to have my train depart from the bowels of hell.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Apr 29 14:02:11 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 13:08:31 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Better than ANY ferry slip.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 14:11:33 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Rockparkman on Sun Apr 29 14:02:11 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by chud1 on Sun Apr 29 14:15:25 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 14:11:33 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d excellent da gov of jersey is cuckoo. will he join jack nicholson in flying over da cuckoo's nest chud1
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 14:17:53 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by chud1 on Sun Apr 29 14:15:25 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d On many issues he is, but not the ARC one. The ARC project was so cuckoo that Amtrak was going to go ahead with Gateway even if ARC were built.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 29 15:15:16 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Rockparkman on Sun Apr 29 14:02:11 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, one of the important calculations in designing transit of any mode is time fr0om the "sidewalk" to the seat. WMATA penalizes every rider w/excessively deep stations (record length escalators for example) Go visit the Cloisters on the A and think having that elevator ride twice a day.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by jasonnyc on Sun Apr 29 20:49:25 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 29 08:28:38 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d There's also a bit of semantic games happening here. When he said "one rail tunnel" into NY, most probably read it as he meant it... one pair of tunnels, or one "route" into the city. Yes there are the PATH tunnels but those aren't for these commuter trains. And wouldn't it have significantly increased Amtrak's capacity as well? If you shift trains to the new station, even with increased NJT service, I'm sure Amtrak could fit more trains into Penn, and doubling their inter-city service probably wouldn't take as much, though I could be wrong.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 29 21:00:59 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 13:08:31 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No,ARC wouldn't have been as good as all the cheerleaders claimed. That's why Amtrak was planning Gateway no matter if ARC was built or not Proof?
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 21:01:11 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by jasonnyc on Sun Apr 29 20:49:25 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d And wouldn't it have significantly increased Amtrak's capacity as well? If you shift trains to the new station There were no plans at all to "shift trains to the new station". The plan was to double the number of trains into Manhattan. That means no room to "shift trains" anywhere. That is why Amtrak was planning Gateway independently of ARC.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 29 21:02:21 2012, in response to Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 02:32:28 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This is not a counterpoint.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 30 17:17:05 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by jasonnyc on Sun Apr 29 20:49:25 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I just don't see the point of arguing over ARC. It's dead and buried, forget it. Lautenberg and Christie are having an Animal House food fight and are loving every minute of it.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by Rockparkman on Mon Apr 30 19:41:34 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 21:01:11 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You'll never see Amtrak on the "Tier" without ARC. Amtrak trains using ARC were to TERMINATE at NYP. blame the anti rail GOP Nazis for slamming the door on the Tier FOREVER. Oh well, you'll enjoy your goddamned ferries.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by murray1575 on Mon Apr 30 22:11:54 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 29 10:02:01 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Another quick way to downtown: Take the N/Q/R to 14th St/Union Sq. and transfer to the 4/5. I use it sometimes when I have to go to lower Manhattan and don't want to suffer with the R. The E to WTC also works better than the R.
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Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project)
Posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 15:31:40 2012, in response to Re: Counterpoint (Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting ARC Tunnel project), posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 30 17:17:05 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Too bad the Feds didn't mandate construction. Pay to build it, and charge the parties using it without allowing the cost to be passed onto the consumer. It can be done if they think of it. The gubmint is just waiting for someone to think outside the box. Other governments in the world have done thing like this or something like it and it's for the good of the people. I know, I'm dreaming. I'm allowed.
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