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(1149694)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 8 21:41:43 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by N6 Limited on Sun Apr 8 16:19:19 2012.

Yes, I remember that. The counterargument was that just 10 years earlier, before the V, QUeens Blvd had the short length G train there instead, and they didn't even go to Manhattan, yet the QB local was fine. The V was one of the least full lines, so it absorbed the shorter M trains fine.

(1149719)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Concourse Express on Mon Apr 9 01:00:14 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 8 21:41:43 2012.

The V was one of the least full lines, so it absorbed the shorter M trains fine.

It was the least-full line, at 50% capacity or something like that in the peak hour. (I would say the (G), but IIRC it was something like 65% capacity in the peak hour and it runs half-length trains...)

my blog

(1149747)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 06:58:38 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Apr 9 01:00:14 2012.

Thanks! Yeah, I remember it was near the bottom of full capacity, but didn't realize it was "the" least full loaded line. It's amazing how such a simple service "cut" could be one of the smartest changes made in the system in perhaps the last 50 years.

(1149751)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Apr 9 08:29:32 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 06:58:38 2012.

Thanks Walder!

(1149752)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Apr 9 08:31:53 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 8 21:34:02 2012.

That's great MTA! Now connect the Rockaway line to Queens Blvd ;)

(1149766)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Apr 9 10:50:42 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 7 19:43:34 2012.

For the record, let me point out again that the MTA stats showed 45% wanted Lower Manhattan and 55% Midtown. It wasn't a huge difference.

(1149768)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Apr 9 10:56:21 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 8 21:34:02 2012.

Oh, so we all forgot about OTB going bye bye. But otherwise in line with what we've been saying.

(1149770)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 11:02:35 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Apr 9 10:56:21 2012.

Yeah, I didn't think of that either, as we still have a few of them in Suffolk, I forgot that the city closed the OTB.
Also, along with that, the Casino opening in October, and even all the workers and construction workers going there prior to opening. Like we had to wait a year and a half to see the results of the M train changes, we will have to wait till after this years stats are tallied next year to get a good picture, and then perhaps comparing it to 2010 instead of 2011, as the trend has already been upwards for this year.

(1149787)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 9 12:58:58 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Apr 9 08:31:53 2012.

I'd be happy if they finish the SAS to 125th Street. Even happier if I live to see it go to Water St, or wherever!
Remember, nothing is gonna happen in Queens until the voters pass the full casino gambling referendum!

(1149794)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 13:35:42 2012, in response to The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 7 06:59:34 2012.

That's a pretty impressive increase in demand, over 10 percent. What were all these additional people doing before the M was routed up 6th Ave, I wonder ....

(1149796)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 9 13:39:57 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 13:35:42 2012.



What were all these additional people doing before the M was routed up 6th Ave, I wonder

Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics*** (1149510)

(1149797)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 13:42:13 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 8 04:26:41 2012.

I'm thinking more people are taking the bus to the M train. If you live within walking distance of the M train, you're gonna use that train no matter what. If you have to take a bus, you may have options about which bus you take to which lines.

Also noteworthy: Ridership at Central Ave is way up, 17 percent, but ridership at the very nearby station of Kosciuszko St was also up nearly 5 percent, so it's not as if people are choosing the more direct M line over the original Nassau St. routing. This signals to me that the M is now drawing more riders from Maspeth and Glendale via connecting bus routes.

Is there a similar report on bus ridership anywhere?

(1149799)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 13:59:54 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 8 21:03:36 2012.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt. This service will never, ever be removed. In fact, I am predicting J riders to start to agitate for routing one of their routes up the connector.

(1149806)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 14:37:21 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 13:59:54 2012.

Yup. The quiet neighborhood that sat silent when the M changes were announced (their ONLY objection to the whole reroute was keeping the letter M....the MTA was going to call it the V), so it was basically welcomed with open arms. That same silent group would be a vocal lynch mob if they every tried to revert back to the old routing now that they got a taste for Midtown service (prior to this, it's safe to say that 90% of the population didn't even know it was possible). So it's probably isn't going anywhere.

Yes, I am also surprised that J riders aren't more vocal about changing, as now they obviously know it's possible too.

(1149809)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 14:48:35 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 13:35:42 2012.

Doing what I used to do....three seat ride involving the L...., walking to Myrtle Wyckoff directly for the L (I did that from the Forest Ave area....walked to Wyckoff to try and make a three seat ride a two seat ride. If weather was bad, I would take the M, otherwise, often I would just walk home from Myrtle-Wyckoff. I would take the L to Union Square for either the Lexington or Broadway lines (depending on where I was going, or was in the mood for. Now with a 25 minute ride direct from Forest to 6thn Ave/23rd...I would do that instead, and just walk an extra block in Manhattan, it would have been well worth it, and timed saved not walking underground or on stairs, and waiting for two extra trains. It would have been a godsent.

Other people may have taken the bus to Wyckoff but now use the M from one of it's stations instead. It should have alleviated the L a bit too, as I guarantee transfers are down at Wyckoff. You will always have transferees there, but I am sure there is a portion less now.

You may also now have new people moved into Ridgewood because of it's much better transit to Midtown now. Another pool for increase.


The stats for Myrtle-Wyckoff back this all up as while all the other stations from Central to Fresh Pond have had double digit increases in ridership, Wyckoff was the only station that is essentially the same. I would assume that is because there were formerly a lot of people that walked to Wyckoff directly for the L train but now instead take the M train from one of it's stations, and fore go the L, so Wyckoff didn't see the same increase.

(1149816)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 9 15:16:52 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 14:37:21 2012.

huh..J riders like the changes for most part...

(1149817)

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Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 9 15:20:07 2012, in response to ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Concourse Express on Fri Apr 6 17:30:08 2012.

Broad St down nearly 10%. I'm sure that has something to do with Brooklyn-bound M riders having to find another way home.

(1149818)

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Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 15:29:52 2012, in response to Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 9 15:20:07 2012.

Indeed, both Wall St and Bowling Green are nearby.

(1149820)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Train2104 on Mon Apr 9 15:38:24 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 14:48:35 2012.

I went through Myrtle/Wyckoff several times back in July during the midday/PM rush and the complex was WAY less crowded than I thought it would be.

Also, the reverse peak M that I caught was almost 100% empty until it reached Essex St. Is this typical?

(1149822)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 9 15:40:39 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 9 14:48:35 2012.

I wonder why Wycoff/Myrtle is down a few points?

Could it be that people who were taking the B55 to the L train are walking directly to stations like Fresh Pond and Forest for the non-stop to midtown ride instead?

(1149823)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 15:41:31 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Train2104 on Mon Apr 9 15:38:24 2012.

The only reverse peak M trains I see as usually empty are Forest Hills bound trains in the morning after leaving Lexington Ave.

(1149827)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 15:48:16 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 9 15:40:39 2012.

If you live between Seneca and Wyckoff or Wyckoff and Knickerbocker pre-orange M, you probably walk to Wyckoff and get directly on the L. Now you can walk to Seneca or Knickerbocker for your one seat ride to midtown. Note demand at Halsey St is slightly down, as compared to just about every other Canarsie line station, which it's up (and has been trending up for over a decade). Halsey St would be logical destination for B13 and B18 riders coming from extreme eastern Ridgewood and Glendale.

It's clear the orange M has drawn off ridership from the L. Probably not enough to notice, given the increasing demand elsewhere along the line, but enough to measure.

(1149855)

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Re: Weekend Midtown M Train Needed Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Nyctransitman on Mon Apr 9 17:24:40 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 15:48:16 2012.

With those statistics maybe they'll operate the "M" between Metropolitan Avenue and Queens Plaza or 71st Avenue - Forest Hills on Saturdays and Sundays too.

(1149860)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 9 17:43:01 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by numbersix on Sun Apr 8 20:09:28 2012.

Not really. Health crowds can be found during the day at the north end of the Essex Street station steps waiting to connect to either an F on the Delancy Street platform, or an M on Essex. What ever train arrives first. The crowding at Delancy street has subsided some what since the M was rerouted up 6th Avenue.

Unfortunately the V terminated one station short of providing Eastern Division riders a better transfer to a 6th Avenue, and 8th Avenue connection. Had the track layout from the Chrystie Street cut at Essex been built a differently, V trains could have then terminated at Essex instead of 2nd Avenue. Thus providing an improved transfer from the Eastern Division lines, and filling up a few more of the V's empty seats.

(1149862)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 9 17:44:46 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 9 13:59:54 2012.

Gotta figure a way to have weekend service without blowing the operating budget. It would mean the end of OPTO, which could be a show-stopper. Running out to Forest Hills I think is too much to expect. How about relay on Queens Plaza D5 track ? "E" train is there every 8 to 10 minutes. Schedule to arrive Q.P. 2 minutes after "E" to allow fumigation time.


(1149863)

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Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 9 17:48:08 2012, in response to Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 9 15:20:07 2012.

Broad Street M ==> Whitehall Street R ?

(1149866)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 9 17:58:34 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 9 17:44:46 2012.

TOO MANY GO'S DURING THE WEEKEND TO SCHEDULE REGULAR M SERVICE TO EITHER QUEENS PLAZA OR CONTINENTAL.

(1149867)

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Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 9 17:59:56 2012, in response to Re: The Midtown M Train Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 9 17:44:46 2012.

I always thought the MTA was pussy for NOT operating the weekend M to Forest Hills..

(1150496)

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Re: ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***

Posted by B1bus on Thu Apr 12 22:50:07 2012, in response to ***2011 Annual Subway Ridership Statistics***, posted by Concourse Express on Fri Apr 6 17:30:08 2012.

I always thought they should tear down and combine 50st and 55st/
West End line. stations.

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