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| (1110599) | |
MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by jabrams on Tue Oct 18 14:13:25 2011 When was the "MM" a 6th Ave. Local? It had to be after Chyrstie St., but the M is listed as Nassau. This comes from an "Eastern Division IND R1-9 "Route 3" side sign? Unless it was just a future plan 43 years later! |
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| (1110601) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Oct 18 14:32:25 2011, in response to MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by jabrams on Tue Oct 18 14:13:25 2011. Although it was on rollsigns the MM was never used.It was just for a possible future service as was the DD and FF. |
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| (1110609) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 18 15:16:49 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Allan on Tue Oct 18 14:32:25 2011. Although the MM was never used in service on any trains, 4 AM returning KKs terminated at Metropolitan Av and while not displaying MM signs were in fact MM trains. Actually, a similar anomaly occurred in late 1958 prior to the West Side IRT route realignment of Feb 1959. In the PM rush, there were two 7 Av expresses usually consisting of R-22s that went from N/Lts to 145 St/Lenox. However, these trains did not display a #3 on the end sign but displayed a #2 instead. At the time, the side signs of the IRT SMEEs did not display the route numbers but merely the route and train classification e.g. "Broadway Local," "7th Ave Express" etc. and at back then, IRT trains were not referred to by numbers anyhow but merely by the route name. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1110625) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 18 16:31:09 2011, in response to MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by jabrams on Tue Oct 18 14:13:25 2011. This designation also appeared on the multicoloured side roll signs in the R16 cars, as well as the multicoloured bulkhead signs in the R16, R32 and R38 cars. R27/30 also had it on their oilcloth bulkhead signs. The route was never implemented, although it was planned for. It carried a Green (GG/RR/SS) color designation.wayne |
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| (1110632) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 18 17:28:24 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 18 16:31:09 2011. I could swear I remember seeing the green MM signs occasionally misdisplayed on regular Coney Island M trains in the 80's. |
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| (1110635) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 18 17:35:29 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 18 16:31:09 2011. They figured one Moe was enough and a double Moe would just be too much.:) |
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| (1110651) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by zac on Tue Oct 18 19:33:55 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 18 16:31:09 2011. I have one of the multicolored R16 signs. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. Any offers? |
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| (1110652) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 18 19:37:24 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 18 17:35:29 2011. I cannot imagine the pain of being caught between two Moes.-w- |
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| (1110659) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 18 20:15:47 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Allan on Tue Oct 18 14:32:25 2011. The V train was basically the FF, converted to the post 1985 single-letter system. |
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| (1110673) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 18 21:09:25 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 18 17:28:24 2011. There are a few pics on nycsubway.org of exactly that. |
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| (1110692) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by monorail on Tue Oct 18 22:51:21 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 18 17:28:24 2011. they did, when the 'M' sign was missing |
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| (1110695) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? Photo! |
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Posted by JBar387 on Tue Oct 18 23:28:19 2011, in response to MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by jabrams on Tue Oct 18 14:13:25 2011. You mean this one!
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| (1110726) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 08:03:31 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 18 19:37:24 2011. Double the poking, double the slapping, double the name calling - oy vay!! |
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| (1110769) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Oct 19 13:30:48 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 18 17:28:24 2011. Oh yeah. Those R16 signs could be bitches to crank and any sort of M would do. The R16's on the J used either the orange JJ or the black QJ, depending on wherever the conductor stopped the crank.And the R16 were not the only cars that got these signs. They just kept them past 1984: 
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| (1110780) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 13:47:44 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Allan on Tue Oct 18 14:32:25 2011. The DD was used once, temporarily, in the aftermath of a water main break along 6th Ave. in December of 1962. |
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| (1110781) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Oct 19 13:52:06 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 18 19:37:24 2011. Oh Moe!--Mark |
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| (1110792) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 14:48:08 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 13:47:44 2011. That's correct although the service was misnamed since the trains ran down 8 Av and not 6th. |
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| (1110803) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 15:42:47 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Oct 19 13:52:06 2011. Nrrrmmmmppphhhh!!! |
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| (1110804) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 15:43:58 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Oct 19 13:30:48 2011. I've seen that photo before. |
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| (1110805) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 15:45:12 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 14:48:08 2011. I remember seeing an R-27/30 D signed as a DD in 1980. Either the motoeman overshot the D sign or didn't crank it far enough and said the heck with it. |
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| (1110826) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Oct 19 16:52:02 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 15:45:12 2011. Or perhaps it was just that folks were used to certain equipment on the D and the motorman got tired of being asked if this was a D train. So he rolled it to "D ... D dammit!" :) |
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| (1110914) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Oct 20 09:24:29 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 18 15:16:49 2011. Were the Metro KK's signed "Metropolitan Avenue"? |
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| (1110931) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 13:31:34 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Dan on Thu Oct 20 09:24:29 2011. Front destination signs were not used on the R-7/9s that ran on the Three Stooges Division. It's possible that if 1575 was the lead motor on such a KK, it's front destination sign might have been set to Metropolitan Ave. |
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| (1110934) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 13:56:36 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 13:31:34 2011. No front destination signs, but the side destination signs definitely did read Metropolitan Av. |
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| (1110938) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 14:28:38 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 15:45:12 2011. I don't recall the R-27/30s or any of the other pre R-40 SMEEs having DD among the displays. What did surprise me is that the signs did carry C/8 Ave Express signs along with CC signs , BB/6 Ave Local signs but no B for the proposed Chrystie service. As usual, the short sighted TA failed to provide sufficient readings for all possible route combinations. The R-27s through 38s should have had single and double letter readings for ALL the routes expected to be equipped with those cars. |
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| (1110946) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Oct 20 15:47:41 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 14:28:38 2011. Maybe would've made the roll too long/heavy? Just guessing. Your position of MTA incompetence is probably correct. :) |
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| (1110952) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 16:24:47 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 14:28:38 2011. That DD sign I saw on that particular R-27/30 consist had the angular, squared-off letters that the R-1/9 curtains had; I suspect that the lead motor had an R-1/9 route curtain in the front route slot. |
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| (1110955) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Oct 20 17:00:39 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 19 15:45:12 2011. I remember that also, it was fairly common to see the DD sign used on the R-27/30's |
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| (1110956) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 17:05:33 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 16:24:47 2011. Was it an end sign you saw or a side sign. If it was the end sign then it might have been a sign taken from an R-9 or an R-10 and installed in an R-27 if the proper sign wasn't available. |
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| (1110966) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Oct 20 17:40:25 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 13:56:36 2011. Thanks. The occasional R40M/R42 ran on the KK/K too IIRC. There seems to have been a lot of services like the KK to Metro that were not noted on maps of the time. The "M" bankers special on the Brighton is one that gets mentioned here from time to time. |
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| (1110969) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 20 17:44:50 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 13:31:34 2011. Thats no so..I've seen plenty of them operating in service on the QJ with signs for 168TH ST JAMAICA..or Eastern Pky..same for the KK/K ..rare for the M expect evenings and weekends. |
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| (1110971) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 20 17:53:26 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Oct 20 15:47:41 2011. With many of the mechanisms sticky as they were, running the roll from one end to the other, particularly on the bulkheads, likely would have resulted in a strike. And the oilcloth rolls were fairly thick too. I can see why they could only fit so many on them. Might have been different with the mylar curtains, but didn't see any of those on the equipment I did ... |
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| (1110977) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Oct 20 18:33:19 2011, in response to MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by jabrams on Tue Oct 18 14:13:25 2011. The current "M" routing is a natural extension of what would have been the plan back then - a non-rush-hour service from 57-6 Ave to Metropolitan, along the route of today's "M".wayne |
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| (1111008) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 20:11:45 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Oct 20 18:33:19 2011. The double Moe got implemented after all - some 42 years later. |
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| (1111009) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 20:13:00 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 17:05:33 2011. End sign. As I said, the DD lettering was clearly something you'd find on the R-1/9s and R-10s. |
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| (1111010) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 20:14:12 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 20 17:53:26 2011. I've spliced interim terminals on my front destination roller curtain and they still fit. Now if I could only fine Concourse-Fordham, Queens-Roosevelt Av and World's Fair.... |
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| (1111012) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 20 20:27:29 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 20:14:12 2011. I remember so many crankers that were stuck, stripped and obtuse. Just cranking from F to D and swapping out 205 for 179 was sometimes an exercise in frustration in the morning. I'll bet yours is well lubed. :) |
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| (1111037) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Oct 20 23:08:15 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 14:28:38 2011. The R-32's and R-38's did have a reading for "DD 6th Avenue Local", see list below. This may have been a result of the brief re-activation of the "DD" in December 1962.TUSCARORA ARCHIVES R-32 AND R-38 ROLL SIGNS The R-32 entered service. This is the route roll signs readings in alphabetical order, not the order in which they appeared on the roll sign itself. Rt A 8th Avenue Express Rt AA 8th Avenue Local Rt BB 6th Avenue Local Rt C 8th Avenue Express Rt CC 8th Avenue local Rt D 6th Avenue Express Rt DD 6th Avenue Local Rt E 8th Avenue Express Rt F 6th Avenue Express Rt GG Bklyn-Queens Local Rt HH Rockaway Local Rt J Nassau St Express Rt JJ Nassau St Local Rt KK Nassau St Local Rt L 14th Street Express Rt LL 14th Street Local Rt M Nassau St Express Rt N Broadway Express Rt Q Broadway Express Rt QB Broadway Local via Bridge Rt QT Broadway Local via Tunnel Rt RR Broadway Local Rt S Special Rt SS Shuttle Rt T Broadway Express Rt TT West End Local The following reading were different on the inside: Rt GG Bklyn-Queens Rt QB Local via Bridge Rt QT Local via Tunnel Compare this list ot the original list for the R-27’s and you will note that the use of route names for the Southern Section BMT routes has been discontinued. Rt Q Broadway-Brighton Express is now Rt Q Broadway Express. This caused a great deal of confusion at the time and lead to the NYCTA having to post large metal signs at BMT stations listing both the route letters and the old BMT route names; Brighton, Sea Beach etc. Sharp-eyed sub fans will note the return of the DD for the first time since the R-10s. This may have been due to the fact that for a two week period in 1962 the DD was in operation along with the C, which had been unused since 1949. Hard core sub fans will note the return of the HH. Not as the “Fulton Street Local” but as the “Rockaway Local.” For the first time we see a reading for “SS Shuttle”. This was a shortcoming of the R-27 roll signs which was finally corrected. Although the “SS” was not officially activated until November, 1967 with the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway if R-32’s were assigned to either the Culver or Franklin Shuttles prior to that date then they would display the “SS” reading. Of course these roll signs as well as those of the R-27s received many corrections and additions with the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway. Larry, RedbirdR33 Saturday 2/24/07 |
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| (1111045) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by jabrams on Thu Oct 20 23:35:43 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Dan on Thu Oct 20 17:40:25 2011. You also had the 3 KK's that terminated or left from Rockaway Parkway. But they were lsigned as such. |
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| (1111067) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 07:59:54 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Oct 20 23:08:15 2011. I have one of those, "Know Trains at a Glance" signs and remember seeing them on Southern Division platforms, most notably Whitehall St., in June of 1967. |
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| (1111069) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 08:06:04 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 20 20:27:29 2011. Yeah, a little oil on the gears works wonders. I can actually turn the curtain by hand without even using the crank handle.Now, my route sign is another story. While it cranks very easily through most of the letter markings, once you get to BB, it stiffens up like you wouldn't believe. You have to crank it perhaps a quarter turn, back off, turn it another quarter turn and repeat the process until you get to A. |
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| (1111105) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 15:07:45 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 08:06:04 2011. Not imagine some gears lubricated with a half inch of steel dust and there ya are for your two minutes before wrapping it right there. :( |
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| (1111117) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 16:24:14 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 15:07:45 2011. The funny thing is, if you start from A and go through AA, B and BB, it cranks easily. It's just going the other way that for some reason it stiffens up. And this happened with two different curtains. |
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| (1111124) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 17:08:35 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 16:24:14 2011. D and F were near the middle of the roll too ... some would move willingly, others required frequent brake handle beatings. :) |
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| (1111129) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Oct 21 17:19:44 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 17:08:35 2011. others required frequent brake handle beatings. :)That must have been a scene to behold! |
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| (1111130) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 17:23:28 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Oct 21 17:19:44 2011. Drop the panel, stretch, beat, repeat ... most of the riders waiting for us to go showed signs of amusement but also realized that arnines were old and busted and were relieved when we finally started to move. :)Fortunately for most people's sanity I did put-ins so did all of that in the peace and quiet of the layup track. Heh. |
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| (1111180) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:15:55 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 17:23:28 2011. Did you ever find yourself wondering, why are they doing this to me?:) |
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| (1111181) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:17:15 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 17:08:35 2011. Everything from C on is laminated on my curtain, so they still look almost like new. The A, AA, B and BB signs aren't laminated, but they're still clean and not discolored. |
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| (1111185) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 22:22:53 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:15:55 2011. Nope ... you just took things like that in stride and blasphemed ... loudly. :) |
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| (1111187) | |
Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 22:24:21 2011, in response to Re: MM - 6th Ave. Local?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:17:15 2011. The weird thing about that oilcloth ... even the steel dust didn't stay stuck to them long. And if you cranked hard enough, they'd fall right off the hooks into your hands. Heh. |
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