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| Re: Signage and Customer Service (1089228) | |
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Re: Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:08:45 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 4 08:14:46 2011. My Garmin is just great. I turn it on when I need a good laugh. It tells me to turn right on the FDR Doctor. I finally figured out what it was trying to say. |
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| (1089839) | |
Re: Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:09:15 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:04:37 2011. GPSs don't give information on detours in none urban areas. Yes they do. They are not as dependable as one might think. Incorrect. They are very dependable for what they can reasonably be expected to do. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:09:43 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:00:16 2011. lol |
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Re: Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:10:50 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 3 17:20:13 2011. Same going from the Belt to the Southern State. Left to go right. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:13:37 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 08:51:08 2011. Not all can. I already addressed that. I clearly said "you do not necessarily need to know to ask for a reroute." You claimed that GPS devices flat out can not do it. I countered by saying that is not true. I can't be fiddling around figuring what to press while I am driving. That's dumb. Why not simply learn how to use your device BEFORE you start driving??? Gee wiz!?!?! Also, is this kinda like how you can't be bothered to actually look for an elevator while you are walking, i.e. you expect an elevator to appear right in front of you whenever you need one? And then when people rightly claim that such and such an elevator exists, you deny it? |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:14:11 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 08:51:58 2011. No, but you don't seem to know how to make intelligent posts. |
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| (1089845) | |
Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:16:04 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 08:55:53 2011. Um, you're not supposed to perform driving maneuvers that are not reasonable. That's where your brain comes in. In the few instances where a GPS is out of date, you use your brain. For the other 99% of the time, the GPS does not give invalid instructions. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:16:48 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:08:45 2011. I finally figured out what it was trying to say. It took you that long??? I figured it out the first time it did it! |
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| (1089847) | |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:16:52 2011, in response to Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Aug 2 21:30:25 2011. Second Avenue Sagas wrote an article based on this. |
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| (1089848) | |
Re: Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:17:31 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 4 08:14:46 2011. Huh? Why are they hurting? And you can get Garmins (as well as other brands) for less than $134. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 09:23:26 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 08:55:53 2011. Good signage has nothing to do with your first example. Anyone who listens to their GPS in that situation is an idiot. As for your second example, you'll need to be more specific about what happened, but most intersections have adequate signage to prevent you from doing such a thing.I was once driving somewhere I wasn't familiar with GPS, but I made a point of looking over the directions before starting out. At some point, I reached an area that had been reconstructed since the GPS had been programmed, and before going through the intersection, already suspected I was being given inaccurate directions, as the traffic pattern there had changed. Sure enough, I made a wrong turn and had to make a u-turn somewhere to get back on track, but I knew that something was up before the GPS caught on to it. This past week, I was driving in Haifa, Israel, where there is a new toll tunnel under the city (which is built on a mountain). Since I was driving a rental car, any electronically charged tolls plus a 50 NIS fee (10 times the cost of the toll in this case) would be charged to my credit card. Google Maps doesn't recognize that the new tunnel exists yet, so I had directions printed that didn't take me through the tunnel, however, all signs pointing north towards Akko (the direction I wanted) now point you towards the tunnel without suggesting another route. Since I was following the Akko signs and my passenger didn't know Hebrew (though most signs are in English too), I missed the turn Google wanted me to make. When I reached an intersection where my choices were to turn left, right or go straight into the tunnel, I had to make a decision about where to go. Because I knew enough about the basic city geography, because I had made a point of doing so before traveling, I figured turning left towards downtown and then eventually turning north along Haifa Bay would get me in the direction I wanted to go. Sure enough, after two or three kilometers, signs to Akko began to reappear along the route that I anticipated I would take, I recognized the road I was on from a previous trip there, and was able to make my way to Rosh Hanikra on Highway 4, the route I had intended to take. I was able to do this because I had planned before my trip and used common sense and basic orientating skills, not because of a GPS or signage. The former are far more critical than the latter. |
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| (1089853) | |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 09:24:43 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 3 17:23:35 2011. People traveling to unfamiliar areas will research ahead of time.Sadly, I know many people who solely rely on their gadgets and find themselves in a bind when they don't work as expected. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Aug 4 09:32:50 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:14:11 2011. 
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Aug 4 09:56:04 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:09:15 2011. Incorrect. They are very dependable for what they can reasonably be expected to do.The problem is when users rely on them to do what they cannot reasonably be expected to do, which happens often. |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Aug 4 09:56:48 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:10:50 2011. The Belt does not go directly to the Southern State. You have to be on the Cross Island Parkway |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 10:44:55 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 07:20:51 2011. RECACLCULATING! TURN RIGHT NOW! |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 10:47:37 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:16:04 2011. And a good GPS will automatically update your route to get you to a destination if you miss a step.It's also up to the end user to make sure that the GPS is kept up to date, something that many users no doubt fail to do, as they put all their faith into the technology and blindly follow its orders, like the numerous examples of people who drove onto train tracks or into bodies of water following GPS instructions on where to turn, and failing to be observant. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Aug 4 10:57:05 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:00:16 2011. A greater extreme would be seeing a sign somewhere in New Jersey for an upcoming interchange with Interstate 80:
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| (1089893) | |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 10:59:20 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:16:48 2011. I meant I figured it out several years after I first started driving which was over 40 years ago. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Aug 4 10:59:37 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 10:47:37 2011. I use Telenav. Although there is a monthly fee, on the plus side the maps are updated automatically and I can use my phone instead of having another gadget. |
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| (1089898) | |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 11:02:04 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:09:15 2011. Mine specifically shows where detour information is given and it is only for urban areas. I was once in NJ and followed my GPS right unti the road ended because the bridge was washed out. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 11:05:07 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Aug 4 10:57:05 2011. I also love the old Robert Moses signs. Right off the Verrazano Bridge is an old sign for the Whitestone Bridge. Of course all the signs following it have long since been removed or have fallen off, so the remaining one only serves to confuse. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 11:10:45 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 09:13:37 2011. I do know how to use it. If there is a delay, a blue button lights up and you have to press it. Then it asks you make choices to get the reroute. Thats hard to do and dangerous if you are moving at a considerable speed. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 11:14:32 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Aug 4 10:57:05 2011. New York is the control city for 95 north starting in Baltimore... |
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| (1089910) | |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 11:18:21 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Aug 4 09:56:48 2011. It most certainly does. The section of the Belt south of the Southern State is the Laurelton Parkway, not the Cross Island as most people think. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:29:47 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 11:10:45 2011. Then you need to invest in a better GPS. Or stop trusting the GPS, and go back to paper maps, which can be just as inaccurate. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:31:06 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:00:16 2011. Then you shouldn't be driving. If the sign says 'Pennsylvania' do you expect it to be the next exit? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:33:08 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Aug 4 10:57:05 2011. Anyone who sees that and thinks that you'll immediately get to any of those destinations by taking the next exit (or next turn, in BrooklynBus's example) shouldn't be driving. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:35:35 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 11:02:04 2011. And you didn't see the signs warning you the bridge was out well in advance of your arrival at the bridge? If that's the case, you're depending too much on your GPS, and you're not a particularly observant driver. You'd have the exact same problem following written directions or a map. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:41:09 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Aug 4 09:56:48 2011. The Cross Island starts at the junction of the Belt (Laurelton) and the Southern State. The exit numbering on the Southern State follows the original numbering on the Cross Island; the Cross Island was built as part of the Belt System (see one of my other posts in this topic). Traffic engineering wise, you want your predominant traffic flow to be on the left; the predominant traffic flow from the Belt at that junction is onto the Southern State. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:49:23 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 09:24:43 2011. I do as well. Makes me wonder what they did before they had a gadget to do it for them.When I plan a trip, I map it out ahead of time, and print out the directions and a map of my destination starting at the last major highway I got off (e.g. if I'm going to someplace off I80, my map will show all my movements from the I80 exit I need). Other than that, I use Onstar or my GPS-enabled phone for directions. However, for missed turns, Onstar requires me to tell it to reroute me (it asks and accepts responses verbally) while my phone updates my route automatically. |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Thu Aug 4 11:53:13 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 3 16:35:24 2011. These signage issues are non issues these days as most people have GPS either stand alone or on their phones |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:56:15 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by BMTLines on Thu Aug 4 10:59:37 2011. My car has Onstar, also a monthly (annual) fee. I could use my cell phone for it, but I find Onstar to be more reliable when it comes to locating things. |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Aug 4 12:02:39 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 3 17:23:35 2011. People traveling to unfamiliar areas will research ahead of time.That is fine today with access to computers and GPS systems. Years ago when travelling to friends in unfamiliar areas I would often get directions like: Take Exit X then drive straight for 3 blocks till you see the lake on the left. Make a right at the big tree with the swing on it and keep going till you see an Exxon Station, etc.... The problem arose when Exit X was closed and I could not find the lake after getting off 3 miles later at Exit Y.... Today I just ask them for the address and let my GPS do the directing... |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 12:20:47 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BMTLines on Thu Aug 4 12:02:39 2011. We have plenty of AAA maps in a closet in the house for areas where we traveled and would put them in the car if we were going to that destination. If we hadn't been to a place before, we ordered the necessary maps. Not much different than today.The people who you describe gave bad directions. Unless you are in the middle of nowhere, there is no reason why street names can't be used and located. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 12:28:08 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 12:20:47 2011. I used to do the same thing...I still have AAA maps for most states, in a box in my closet. When I need to teach my cub scouts how to use a map, I'm ready. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Mr RT on Thu Aug 4 12:51:56 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 10:44:55 2011. That's it !!!!!! |
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Posted by Mr RT on Thu Aug 4 12:54:32 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 09:06:23 2011. You said the intended audience was out of town tourists who were unfarmiliar with our roads, so the changing road signs would just add to their confusion. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 4 12:59:34 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 10:44:55 2011. Just hope it's not on a grade crossing... |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 14:32:43 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 06:33:49 2011. I tend to use the GPS for the "last mile." If I've programmed a route I will ignore it until I get near the destination in question when it becomes necessary to pay attention to it. Luckily GPS compensates for ignoring it and driving another route. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 14:33:24 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 4 06:54:23 2011. These would be the people who stop at gas stations and ask for directions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 14:45:11 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Aug 3 21:07:01 2011. It can't. That's because the post I was responding to was neither condescending nor insulting. At least not more than the post being responded to. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 15:17:16 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 4 09:23:26 2011. Excellent post. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 15:21:26 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:31:06 2011. Good post.I prefer distant control cities to close ones because they're more likely to be known. The control cities in St. Louis are awesome: Memphis, Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Tulsa and Kansas City on the main interstates. All well known cities. All relatively far away and all but one in a different state. I see signs in NJ for I-78 WEST: CLINTON. I have no idea where that is. It should say Allentown or Bethlehem (whichever of those two are more well known) or Lehigh Valley. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 15:40:35 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Aug 4 10:57:05 2011. I believe that sign should use CLEVELAND for I-80 West. No pissant small towns for control cities!IMO the following should be the exhaustive list of control cities on I-80: San Francisco Oakland (EB only) Sacramento Reno Salt Lake City Cheyenne WY Lincoln NE (WB only) Omaha Des Moines Chicago Toledo Cleveland Scranton (alternate option for WB to I-380) Paterson (WB express lanes only) Hackensack (local lanes only) New York 95: Miami Fort Lauderdale (NB only) West Palm Beach (NB only) Daytona Beach Jacksonville Savannah Florence SC Fayetteville Richmond Washington DC Baltimore Philadelphia (NB alternate from Baltimore Delaware Memorial Bridge SB to exit 6 once I-95/276 interchange is finished) Trenton (NB north of Philadelphia, SB north of Exit 7A until interchange finished) New York New York via Lincoln Tunnel (eastern spur) New York via George Washington Bridge (western spur and eastern north of 16E) New Haven Boston Portland Augusta (optional) Bangor Halifax (I am not kidding, Halifax should be the control city on I-95 north in Maine) |
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| (1090011) | |
Re: Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 15:46:40 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 4 10:59:20 2011. You mean you had a Garmin over forty years ago? |
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Re: Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 15:47:55 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 11:41:09 2011. The SSP should be renumbered to extend the numbering of the Belt. Milepost-based of course. IMO the SSP is a functional extension of the Belt and the Cross Island is something else entirely. |
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Re: Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 16:13:04 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 15:47:55 2011. No; the continuous numbering on the Belt to the Cross Island is better as is, as numbering is consecutive within the city limits, while the Southern State serves Nassau and Suffolk. What should be done with the SSP exit numbering is that it should be converted to a mileage-based (or kilometer-based, if we ever get around to joining the other 99% of the planet) numbering, starting at the current exit 13. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 16:54:10 2011, in response to Re: Signage and Customer Service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 4 16:13:04 2011. There is no reason why both can't have continuing numbering. Like on the Pennsylvania Turnpike after I-76 branches off. Both I-76 and the I-276 continuation of the Turnpike continue the number from the Ohio border.The only thing we disagree with here is whether the exits should be based on the nearest milepost or the nearest milepost+26. |
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Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 4 18:06:14 2011, in response to Re: OT = Signage and Customer Service, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 4 15:21:26 2011. The control cities in St. Louis are awesome: Memphis, Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Tulsa and Kansas City on the main interstates.It wouldn't be quite the same somehow if they were Cape Girardeau, Springfield, Effingham, Mount Vernon, Springfield, and Columbia. :-) I see signs in NJ for I-78 WEST: CLINTON. I have no idea where that is. It should say Allentown or Bethlehem (whichever of those two are more well known) or Lehigh Valley. I think it should be a rule that any settlement with a street called Village Road should not be a control city. Even Phillipsburg would be an improvement on that (although the typical signwriter would probably alternate it with Philipsburg, Phillipsburgh, Philipsberg, etc, just to ensure accuracy at least some of the time). |
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