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| The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening (957339) | |
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| (957339) | |
The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 10:56:29 2012 See my newest blog post, on my new blog site:The Decline of Male Homosexuality | JayMan's Blog |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 11:04:43 2012, in response to The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 10:56:29 2012. Your conclusion is based on the notion that homosexuality is hereditary like racial and ethnic traits and that less gay men marrying and reproducing with the other sex will result in less and less gays.Such a notion is absurd. Straight couples will continue to produce gay children and gay people who reproduce will continue to have straight children. One's sexual orientation has nothing to do with that of one's parents. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 10 11:05:10 2012, in response to The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 10:56:29 2012. Ill pass thanks... |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 11:20:35 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 11:04:43 2012. So how do you explain the observed heritability estimates as seen in the twin registry studies cited on my blog?While they are lowish (22% as opposed to the usual 50%), they are not zero, and as long as the heritability is non-zero, selection against it (which is currently underway) will cause the trait to diminish in the gene pool. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 11:24:48 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 11:20:35 2012. Your analysis is based on the fantastic notion that the tiny % of the male population that is gay has been somehow reproducing in amounts comparable to the straight population and that a drop would somehow result in the "End of Gays".Since almost 100% of gays are produced by the 97% of the population that is straight, your conclusion is risible. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jul 10 11:24:52 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 11:20:35 2012. You're assuming that there used to be a big population of gays getting married and having children.There never was a stigma against being a "confirmed bachelor" as long as you didn't get caught soliciting sexual services. Just like there have been thousands of priests whose emotional and mental dispositions may have been gay but who remained celibate. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 12:08:47 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 11:24:48 2012. Since almost 100% of gays are produced by the 97% of the population that is straightAnd how do you know that? What evidence do you have of the percentage of gay men born to gay vs straight parents? |
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| (957386) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 12:11:20 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by AlM on Tue Jul 10 11:24:52 2012. You're assuming that there used to be a big population of gays getting married and having children.I know Subchatters don't read links, but come on man, this one is short. It's in the blog post. Gay (or more accurately, non-hetero-) men in the past used to reproduce at above replacement levels. |
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| (957389) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Jul 10 12:19:20 2012, in response to The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 10:56:29 2012. Yawn! |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jul 10 12:19:52 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 12:11:20 2012. Your link is almost unreadable (gray on black). You do not explain what GSS data is. And if I read your table correctly some of your samples are too small. 11 gay men born in the 1920s? |
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| (957395) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Jul 10 12:35:31 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by AlM on Tue Jul 10 12:19:52 2012. LOL!!!! |
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Re: The End of Gheys: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 13:05:41 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 11:04:43 2012. What, quadroon and octaroon gay? |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Jul 10 14:05:09 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 12:08:47 2012. Why are you focusing on gay men? you know lesbians do exist out there. They are part of this equation you know. |
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| (957424) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 10 14:07:50 2012, in response to The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 10:56:29 2012. Sorry man, but da breeders are breeding more gays every day.your pal, Fred |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Jul 10 14:14:59 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 10 14:07:50 2012. Yups....and now with the openness towards the LGBT community, more will come foward to be counted. |
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| (957428) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 15:04:46 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 10 14:07:50 2012. I haven't looked at very recent trends (fertility is only meaning for those >35 years old), but the latest numbers indicate that the gay reproductive rate is less than half of replacement value. That is enough to breed out the trait in time. |
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| (957429) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 15:06:44 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by AlM on Tue Jul 10 12:19:52 2012. Your link is almost unreadable (gray on black).You have a shitty monitor then. Control & + can help. You do not explain what GSS data is. And if I read your table correctly some of your samples are too small. 11 gay men born in the 1920s? If you're not going to read any of my stuff, why comment on it? |
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| (957463) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 10 16:44:42 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 15:06:44 2012. Or a shitty web browser. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Concourse Express on Tue Jul 10 16:59:16 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 15:04:46 2012. About the "gay reproductive rate"...is that just among homosexuals who procreate or among the whole population? If the latter, methinks the trait won't "breed out" anytime soon, owing to the possibility of recessive biological/genetic markers for homosexuality in heterosexuals...visit my blog |
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| (957474) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 17:14:50 2012, in response to The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 10:56:29 2012. How are your views very much different from those of Hitler other than you do not advocate extermination of the less intelligent or the less desirable groups? |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 18:09:51 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 12:08:47 2012. How do I know that?Look around. 97% of the male population is heterosexual. Even if as many as a third of the 3% of men who are are gay reproduce (highly doubt that it would be that many) and produce the same per capita number of children as straights and even accepting your 22% vs 50% numbers, it would still mean that 99% of breeders are straight men and that 99% of children come from such men. The number of children (gay or straight) produced by gay men would continue to be statistically insignificant whether their fertility rate drops in half or whether it doubles. Your "analysis" is bereft of such basic arithmetic calculation and is a laughable exercise in base-rate fallacy. |
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| (957521) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 10 18:40:19 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 18:09:51 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong but you guys know that homosexuals come from heterosexual parents right?your pal, Fred |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 18:41:22 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 10 18:40:19 2012. He apparently doesn't.That the whole point of my replies. |
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| (957545) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 19:48:32 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Concourse Express on Tue Jul 10 16:59:16 2012. About the "gay reproductive rate"...is that just among homosexuals who procreate or among the whole population?I looked at the GSS data (which is a population-wide survey) and compared the number of children of men who report no male sex partners vs those who reported one or more. The latter group (gays and bisexual men) who were born before 1940 had average of more then 2 children, which more than replacement level. It falls off rather steeply after that time. If the latter, methinks the trait won't "breed out" anytime soon, owing to the possibility of recessive biological/genetic markers for homosexuality in heterosexuals... It will probably take a loooong time to completely disappear, if ever, but its prevalence will be significantly reduced. While heterosexuals are apparently carriers of the trait, the loss of fertility from the gays themselves will reduce the trait's prevalence unless their relatives have even more children to compensate, which they almost certainly don't. |
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| (957546) | |
Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 19:49:52 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 17:14:50 2012. Logical equivalent:How are your views different from a car thief other than that you don't advocate stealing cars? :\ |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 20:04:24 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 10 18:09:51 2012. OK, let's break this down:97% of the male population is heterosexual. Roughly correct, yes. Even if as many as a third of the 3% of men who are are gay reproduce (highly doubt that it would be that many) For the purposes of this discussion, I'm lumping in bisexual men with "gay", such that "gay" means any man with same-sex attraction. According to the GSS data, the mean number of children had by "gay" men (at least of the cohort born in the 1960s) is about 0.95, which is an average of one child per gay man per lifetime. If we assume a plausible distribution, then perhaps about 50% have two or more children while the other 50% have none. and produce the same per capita number of children as straights and even accepting your 22% vs 50% numbers, it would still mean that 99% of breeders are straight men and that 99% of children come from such men. OK, that makes no sense whatsoever. The data state that gay men in the past fathered two children on average each. The prevalence of non-heterosexuality among men was slightly higher in the past (~4-5%). As such, while 95% of breeding men were straight, anywhere up 100% of gay men could have been fathered by gay men. The real percentage is probably significantly lower, but nothing in these data rules out that possibility. Your "analysis" is bereft of such basic arithmetic calculation and is a laughable exercise in base-rate fallacy. There's just nothing to add to that one...other than, see above. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 20:05:05 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 19:49:52 2012. Hardly logical: Hitler identified gays, gypsies and Jews as inferior & undesirable groups in his Germany. He just took it to the next (or several) level. I certainly don't find car thieves desirable. I also don't advocate killing car thieves (other than the one who took my 1971 Fury Super Sport) |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 20:58:10 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 20:05:05 2012. I certainly don't find car thieves desirable.And neither do I. I also don't advocate killing car thieves (other than the one who took my 1971 Fury Super Sport). And neither do I... |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 10 21:59:08 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 20:58:10 2012. Yet yer views can be looked as such... |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 22:17:02 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 10 21:59:08 2012. By people who want to look at them that way, which is not what is the case in reality. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jul 11 08:49:14 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 20:05:05 2012. I don't see JayMan saying he wants to kill anyone in an undesirable group. He may have advocated giving them positive economic incentives for not reproducing - that's quite different as long as the incentives remain positive and accepting them remains 100% voluntary.Suppose a billionaire offered $1,000 to any woman under 40 who agreed to be sterilized. Such an offer would mostly be taken by poor women because middle class women would generally not consider $1,000 enough incentive to close off a future option. That might be considered a highly crass offer, but it certainly wouldn't fall into a class with Hitler. |
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Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jul 11 09:05:34 2012, in response to Re: The End of Gays: Yes, it is happening, posted by JayMan on Tue Jul 10 22:17:02 2012. You just said by people who want to look that way what's more realistic than that? |
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