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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 22 16:27:57 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 22 14:41:49 2012.

And how many people did the Nazis kill?

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 22 16:28:59 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 14:55:34 2012.

I agree, but the message of his point still stands. That's what I was agreeing with.

(912095)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 16:49:54 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 15:29:29 2012.

You celebrate the independence of some and the slavery of others. THIW.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 16:59:12 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 16:49:54 2012.

"You celebrate the independence of some and the slavery of others. THIW."

Are you saying the 4th July celebrates slavery in America? what drugs are you taking lately? you're obviously not understanding what is being told to you.......

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 20:23:34 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 16:49:54 2012.

Independence did not cause slavery. It had pretty much no effect on it.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 20:24:17 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 22 16:28:59 2012.

No, it doesn't. Because the flag on the General Lee is a flag of the Klan, and not of Confederate heritage.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 21:02:15 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 16:59:12 2012.

The US supported slavery and so did the confederacy yet you claimed that it's only the confederacy that you can't celebrate because of that. Can you explain the distinction?

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 21:02:39 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 20:23:34 2012.

The same for the confederacy.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 21:23:02 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 21:02:15 2012.

The United States did support slavery. . .until 1861 when the dead wood left Congress. That was when the United States became righteous. Then reconstruction ended and the darkness returned.

(912166)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 21:24:41 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 21:02:39 2012.

True, but the defeat of the Confederacy led to the abolition of slavery. The Confederacy was only formed for the purposes of preserving slavery. The US did not declare independence because the Prime Minister was a member of a party that was going to ban slavery.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Feb 22 23:36:41 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 14:55:34 2012.

I should have clarified in my post as I do realize this is a battle flag and not the official Stars and Bars. I just called it that because I was too lazy to type "battle flag" out every time. That being said everything else I typed is correct.

(912185)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Feb 22 23:52:01 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 20:24:17 2012.

It is NOT the flag of the Klan. The Klan happened to adopt that flag as one of their many symbols but that in of ittself shouldn't exclusively make that a symbol of hate because other law-abiding people also adopted it.

Put it this way: All jagaloos drink Faygo soda products. They tattoo the logo on their bodies and drink it all the time and extol the product. Now if for some reason the jugaloos become a "hate group" does that mean that no one else should buy Faygo products, because of the association with the jugaloos?

(912186)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 23:55:20 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Feb 22 23:52:01 2012.

No, but the flag we're talking about was adopted as a symbol of hate. If Faygo was first manufactured for Juggalos, then it'd be the same thing. But it wasn't.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 23:55:51 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Feb 22 23:36:41 2012.

It's not the battle flag either.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 00:29:40 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 23:55:20 2012.

That version of the battle flag wasn't specifically made for the Klan either. It's like the name Adolf. Should the name be banned or people who name their sons or the sons themselves be persecuted and harassed because of the actions of one person who happened to have that name?

(912192)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 00:54:32 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 00:29:40 2012.

That version of the battle flag wasn't specifically made for the Klan either.

Not specifically for the Klan, but for people who wanted to glorify the confederacy for all the wrong reasons.

It's like the name Adolf. Should the name be banned or people who name their sons or the sons themselves be persecuted and harassed because of the actions of one person who happened to have that name?

That has pretty much happened unofficially.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 04:23:44 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 00:54:32 2012.

Again that battle flag isn't a symbol of hate. If people TAKE it as one then that's their problem, not mine. I'm a born-and-bred Yankee Brooklynite so I have no issues about the flag BUT I know this whole thing is much ado about nothing to satisfy the P.C. crowd.


I had some Adolfs in my family. They're all dead now and were born way before Hitler came to power but if I wanted to name my kid Adolf then that's my right and there should be NO backlash at all just because some nut in the 1930's rose to power with the same name. It's a Germanic name, that's all it is. And for anyone who has that name or who names someone Adolf in this day and age should not be scrutinized at all because it is wrong to do so. Period. Same for Atilla, Lucifer, Osama etc.... Political Correctness is all about tolerance so what's good for the goose.......

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 04:30:36 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 22 23:55:51 2012.

Oh isn't it? Google it. I'm aware there were different designs but the one atop the General Lee certainly is one of the battle flags of the Confederacy.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 07:44:18 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 12:41:25 2012.

No I wouldn't know how it's like to live in a segregated society like the South but I guarentee if I had lived in those times and the same people who hated the Blacks found out I was a Catholic I'm sure they wouldn't have rolled out the red carpet for me.

Why stop at the whole flag issue? Why not rename all of the southern states who were part of the Confederacy as after all, just the mere mention of their names conjures up the old plantation-based slave-run existances these states had until the war? Listen, no one on this board can ever change history. That's a fact. There are many Southerners of all races that take pride in whatever reason for their former battle flags. That's also a fact. I'm sure the producers of TDOH weren't thinking of any messages to Blacks or Whites. They just wanted to portray an auto that was owned by Sons of the South. Racism HAS NOTHING to do with my hatred for PCness. By saying I throw in PC this and PC that to avoid racism is absurd.

(912205)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Feb 23 08:38:01 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Easy on Wed Feb 22 21:02:15 2012.

"The US supported slavery and so did the confederacy yet you claimed that it's only the confederacy that you can't celebrate because of that. Can you explain the distinction? "

From this map of the US of 1846, the entire country of the US did not support slavery 100%.

Photobucket

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 08:39:19 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Feb 23 08:38:01 2012.

Yes, but prior to that date other states did. This map is like taking a map today and saying "which states support slavery in 2012". It would be all blue now. Things change.

(912209)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Feb 23 08:44:06 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 07:44:18 2012.

"They just wanted to portray an auto that was owned by Sons of the South."

What is the "Sons of the South?"

Who are they? does that include African-Americans who for generations lived in the South and toiled the soil on their backs?

(912228)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 10:46:24 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 08:39:19 2012.

What does the present have to do with anything?

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 10:52:25 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 04:30:36 2012.

No, it's not! The battle flag was square!

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 11:15:07 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 10:46:24 2012.

The point is the relevance of the map. The claim is that at the time of that map, some of the states were against slavery, and some were. The point is that at some earlier date, there would have been more in favor of it. At this later date none are in favor. It's a snapshot of the time of that particular map. Nothing more, nothing less.

(912238)

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 11:16:02 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 10:52:25 2012.

The roof of a car may or may not be square or rectangle, it was painted to fit whatever shape a Charger has.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 11:36:51 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 11:16:02 2012.

Had the roof of the charger not had the necessary proportions, they would not have painted it. They deliberately evoked the rectangular flag.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 11:39:46 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 11:15:07 2012.

IINM most states which banned slavery before the civil war did so within a few decades of independence. There were obvious camps going way back.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 12:03:14 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 11:36:51 2012.

Please.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 12:04:05 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 11:39:46 2012.

Of course. But his idea was these were the states for it. Well now none of them are. Prior to that map, there were more for it.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 12:12:51 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 12:04:05 2012.

Well now none of them are

Because the United States of America CRUSHED them just like they crushed Nazi Germany.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Feb 23 12:15:03 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 12:04:05 2012.

Photobucket

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 12:16:54 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 12:03:14 2012.

If they had used a square flag, people would just be confused. The confederate battle flag is just "ruined."

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 12:24:59 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 23 12:04:05 2012.

As has been stated. The "blue states" in that map got rid of slavery quickly. The "red states" held on until it they were violently crushed.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 17:28:46 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 11:36:51 2012.

For real, that just made me laugh out loud. Do you REALLY think that "they" diliberately evoked the "rectangular flag"? FYI the rectangular flag is the SAME as the square flag. Flags are judged by their face, not the shape. All flags get stretched out to rectangular anyways. And I'll say it again. Is that flag a symbol of the Old South? Yes. Is it exclusively a symbol of Black oppression? Nope.

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Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Feb 23 17:30:24 2012, in response to Re: NASCAR Bans the General Lee, posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Feb 23 08:44:06 2012.

Yes they most certainly DO include Blacks.

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