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(900118)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 17 15:18:23 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 17 15:11:08 2012.

Eretz Israel as we know it today was born out of the hard work and personal sacrifice of Liberal and Socialist Zionists.

God bless those brave people.

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(900121)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 17 15:19:29 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 17 15:12:54 2012.

No because the South is part of the US and what happens there affects other parts of the country.



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(900123)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 17 15:22:01 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 17 14:54:43 2012.



Your ignorance is the belief that if Jews just give up enough they will buy peace.

Huh? He's said nothing of the sort. Nor has he implied anything of the sort. Where do you get this stuff from?

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(900127)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 17 15:33:51 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 17 15:18:23 2012.

True. And they didn't get there by avoiding places they weren't wanted.

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(G00GLE)

Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .


(900138)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 17 16:10:31 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 17 15:15:22 2012.

It most certainly explains how the extreme and irrational views of certain posters here results in a need for counterbalancing those views. At the end of the day, like it or not, most Israelis want "peace", never mind what that might actually entail in reality, and some EU prodding is likely going to be needed to get there.

I don't recall you (and others on this board) being so upset when the US gets involved in the affairs of Iraq or Iran for example...

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(900173)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 17:52:40 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 17 15:18:23 2012.

Eretz Israel as we know it today was born out of the hard work and personal sacrifice of Liberal and Socialist Zionists

Maybe you should study your oxymorons a bit closer? If these are the same "Zionists" that are on the side of "land for peace more war", you should get your foot out of your mouth, so to speak, and stop clinging to revisionist history. You jealous that Israel still has an elected government while Italy's government is appointed from outside the country?

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(900174)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 17:53:13 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 17 15:33:51 2012.

Um, "land for peace"?

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(900205)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jan 17 18:49:27 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 17 04:41:07 2012.

Or perhaps more likely it has to do with the excessive overreaction and judging of people who have no malintent but ask questions? After all, I've become an antisemite here somehow. Problem solved, I just ignore anything "Jewish" here. Same for many others. :(

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(900228)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 19:20:59 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 17:52:40 2012.

LOL!

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(900236)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 19:32:31 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 19:20:59 2012.

Now who is it supporting "land for peace"? I don't see any hawks on the socialist or liberal "Zionist" side. And if you give me a lie for an answer, then rename your handle SpiderNAZI.

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(900238)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 19:36:33 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 17 16:10:31 2012.

You've ducked the question for about umpteen posts thus far.

And if you're comparing the state of Israel to Iran, then you've got zero credibility . . . in fact, you're just a laughingstock and just don't want to be taken seriously   

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(900312)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 01:24:28 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 17 15:19:29 2012.

Wow, you actually sound lucid here.

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(900314)

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EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 01:31:20 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over "land grab" of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 04:43:39 2012.

That's a declaration of war on Israel by the EU.

YNet

Europe to pursue Area C projects

Official document by EU delegates criticizes Israel's policies in West Bank, suggests bloc must pursue ventures in Israeli-controlled area even without Israel's cooperation

Elior Levy
Published: 01.12.12, 07:44
The European Union has decided to pursue a series of steps which may undermine Israel's control of Area C in the West Bank, an official EU document obtained by Ynet on Thursday suggests.

The Oslo Accords divided the West Bank into three areas of control: Area A which is under the Palestinian Authority's full control; Area B, which is under Palestinian civil controls and shared Israeli-Palestinian security control; and Area C, which is controlled by Israel.

Area C makes up 62% of the West Bank, but the Palestinians make up only 5.8% of its population.

The document, titled "Area C and Palestinian state building," harshly criticizes Israel's policies in the West Bank, claiming they have caused the Palestinian population in Area C to shrink significantly and recede into enclaves.

The document states that Europe will support road, water, infrastructure, municipal, educational and medical projects in the area, in order to "support the Palestinian people and help maintain their presence (in the area)."

The EU, the brief said, aims to:
  • Encourage Israel to change its policy and planning system for Area C and engage the Palestinian communities in access and developments
  • Reduce land and population vulnerability and facilitate better coordination of basic needs deliveries in Area C
  • Promote economic development in Area C
  • Increase visibility and accountability for the delivery of aid in Area C
The diplomats state that "The window for the two-state solution is rapidly closing… and Area C is the only contiguous area in the western Negev surrounding Area A and B. Area C compromises crucial natural resources and land for the future demographic and economic growth of a viable Palestinian state. State building efforts in Area C of the PA are therefore of utmost important in order to support the creation of a Palestinian state."

The EU, a western diplomat told Ynet, is primarily concerned about three aspects overshadowing the viability of the two-state solution: Jerusalem, Gaza Strip and Area C. The EU, he added, is worried that Israel's policies in Area C will prevent the PA from maintaining territorial continuity, perpetuating the current situation of a "patch-state."

The documents expresses the EU's concern that the dwindling Palestinian presence in Area C is "pushing the conception of a Palestinian state within the 1967 lines further away" and urges the immediate cessation of what it calls Israel's "demolition policy" in Palestinian villages.

The document also urges Israel to support Palestinian development plans across the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

The diplomats underscore throughout the brief the need for EU support of private and public sector projects and infrastructure, but make no mention of involving Israel, or obtaining its cooperation in such projects.

A Western diplomat familiar with the document told Ynet that the Europeans have decided to simply skip Israeli regulations: "What Europe is essentially saying here is that because Area C is vital for sustaining a viable Palestinian state, we will support whatever needs to be done for the sale of Palestinian development in the area regardless of Israel's planning policy."

He confirmed that the step was meant to reduce the amount of necessary building permits, saying that "European funding of vital projects like water infrastructure will be independent of Israeli authorities' approval."


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(900320)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 02:40:00 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 19:36:33 2012.

Fortunately for the rest of us, neo-conservatives such as yourself don't run the world the way you would like to. Your credentials (or lack thereof) are pretty solidified at this point, so you don't need to keep trying to prove that you supposedly have all the right answers to things you really don't know too much about.

I haven't ducked any questions, I just don't seem to be giving the answers the two of you want to hear. OTOH, you avoid questioning of your own views like the plague.

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(900321)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 02:41:10 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 17:52:40 2012.

Revisionist history? More progress has been made in terms of negotiations with Israel's neighbors when right wing governments have been in power than left wing ones.

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(900322)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 02:42:45 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jan 17 18:49:27 2012.

You'll have to find an example of such a question being posted here, but I'm going off what I've actually read (including your own posts). While I don't label people as anti-Semites nearly as quickly as some others here, I'm not afraid to use the term when it is appropriate.

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(900325)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Jan 18 05:02:43 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 17 09:55:25 2012.

Europe and the United States have a vested interest in the stability of the Middle East. Antagonizing the Palestinians by crowding them out of the West Bank, bit by bit, is not helping, since it further antagonizes the rest of the Muslim nations in the Middle East as well.

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(900327)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 05:48:24 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 17 15:15:35 2012.

At least we agree on some things...

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(900328)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 05:54:48 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by 3-9 on Wed Jan 18 05:02:43 2012.

There is nothing that will appease the enemies of Jews. They want the Jews out of the Mideast, period. Conversely, Israel's actions can't antagonize them, they are permanently antagonized nu Israel's presence.

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(900330)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 06:03:45 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 17 16:10:31 2012.

Actually you have made an oddly appropriate comparison. The U.S. has gotten involved in the affairs of Iran and Iraq because they have constituted enemy states that are dangerous to the U.S., and have posed direct threats to U.S. allies.

Europe sees Israel at best as an inconvenient entity that threatens Europe's self-interest. Europe has centuries of history dictating to Jews, considering them an internal enemy to be tolerated at best, murdered at worst. So they feel empowered to tell any gathering of Jews what to do, even when they have formed a sovereign state.

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(900331)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 06:06:51 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 01:31:20 2012.

I rest my case.

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(900333)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 06:51:37 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 05:54:48 2012.

Some Arabs frankly don't care about Israel and want to go about their lives. Those Arabs need not be antagonized. The ones who are committed to making sure Israel is destroyed are another story.

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(900334)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 06:52:25 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 06:03:45 2012.

How exactly was Iraq dangerous to US interests in 2003 when it was invaded?

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(900335)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 07:05:42 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 06:52:25 2012.

You don't remember the First Gulf War?


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(900339)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 07:15:36 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 07:05:42 2012.

I repeat my question. How exactly was Iraq dangerous to US interests in 2003 when it was invaded?


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(900366)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by AlM on Wed Jan 18 08:54:21 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 17 15:09:16 2012.

I'm sorry to hear that most Israelis would consider you left of center. If a majority of Israelis themselves don't see that the West Bank settlements are a disaster, long term prospects for Israeli security aren't that great.



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(900367)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 08:59:37 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by AlM on Wed Jan 18 08:54:21 2012.

If a majority of Israelis themselves don't see that the West Bank settlements are a disaster, long term prospects for Israeli security aren't that great.

Many do, but the political center in Israel isn't where it is in the US. As I've posted in the past, many Subchatters can't get over the idea that the paradigms that define politics in the United States aren't universal.

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(900380)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 09:45:50 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 07:15:36 2012.

I believe it was, but I don't intend to refight the Iraq War in this thread.

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(900449)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 12:57:33 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 09:45:50 2012.

He wants to equate Iran and Iraq with Israel. The guy's a joke . . .

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(900452)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 13:01:36 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 06:06:51 2012.

Problem is, your "rebbe" will try to close his eyes to this by saying a "right-wing" newspaper published this.

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(900465)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 14:23:51 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 13:01:36 2012.

That is your playbook, not mine (except you'd call it a leftist or liberal newspaper). No one in this country considers Yediot to be right or left wing as far as I can tell, it is the most widely read daily paper in the entire country.

Of course, I'm a bit baffled as to how anyone can build illegally in an area. If the EU doesn't have permission to build, will Israel try destroying the structures, and what will be the EU's reaction when that happens?


The EU, a western diplomat told Ynet, is primarily concerned about three aspects overshadowing the viability of the two-state solution: Jerusalem, Gaza Strip and Area C. The EU, he added, is worried that Israel's policies in Area C will prevent the PA from maintaining territorial continuity, perpetuating the current situation of a "patch-state."


If the map that a lead negotiator on the PLO Bargaining Team who I met with about two years ago showed at that presentation is in fact how Israel proposed to split the land at Camp David in 2000, the proposed Palestinian State simply was not viable because it was a patch state. A state with those borders is almost certainly doomed to fail.

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(900466)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 14:31:21 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 12:57:33 2012.

Joke is on you, you can't seem to understand what I actually write in many of my posts...

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(900483)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 15:37:59 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 17:53:13 2012.

You mean "land for piece," a piece of Israel for a piece of paper.

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(900486)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 15:41:03 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 01:24:28 2012.

The issue isn't cause and effect. It is that being physically and even socially in a location doesn't neutralize personal politics.

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(900532)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SMAZ on Wed Jan 18 17:18:57 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 06:03:45 2012.

Europe sees Israel at best as an inconvenient entity that threatens Europe's self-interest.

Huh?

Europe wants Israel to eventually become an EU member.

Israel's trade ties are with Europe, not the US.

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(900537)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 17:43:28 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 18 15:37:59 2012.

Or a few pieces of shrapnel.

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(900546)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 18:02:51 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Wed Jan 18 17:18:57 2012.


Europe wants Israel to eventually become an EU member.


I highly doubt that will ever happen. Israel isn't the only Mediterranean country to express an interest in joining the EU, but that doesn't mean we should ever expect it to happen.

Israel's trade ties are with Europe, not the US.

This is probably a correct statement. Lufthansa has the largest share of flights at Ben Gurion Airport after El Al, and they are flying A340s into Tel Aviv twice a day every day. Lots of people going between Tel Aviv and Europe.

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(900698)

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Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 01:43:40 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 18 01:31:20 2012.

Yes, the European Union wants a divided Jerusalem. Time to ban EU missions; they're clearly out to undermine Israeli control of the country and to support terrorism.

EU Observer

Another day, another leaked EU report on Israel

18.01.12 @ 09:39
By Andrew Rettman
BRUSSELS — EU countries have again accused Israel of trying to destroy chances for peace with Palestinians by snatching control of East Jerusalem.

The December 2011 report by the EU heads of mission in Ramallah — seen by EUobserver — notes that last year saw "a surge in (Israeli) settlement planning" designed to ring fence the city with Jewish-only neighborhoods.

"If current trends continue, the prospect of Jerusalem as the future capital of two states becomes increasingly unlikely and unworkable, undermining a two-state solution ... (Israeli actions) provide fuel to those who want to further radicalize the conflict," it said.

It noted that the timing of housing decisions undermined attempts to re-launch the peace process.

A decision on the Gilo settlement came "a few days" after the Quartet — the EU-led international body on the conflict — urged parties to refrain from "provocative actions." Another one on the Har Homa and Pisgat Zeev settlements came "just before" Israeli and Palestinian negotiators met in Jordan after a 16-month hiatus.

The EU ambassadors predicted that 2,300 bedouins will shortly be evicted from an area called E1: "Plans include the relocation of some of these communities to the site of the Abu Dis waste dump."

The Jerusalem paper comes on top of two other damning surveys by European diplomats.

An internal report dated 14 December accused Israel of monopolizing farm land and water in the Jordan Valley in a bid to drive out native Arabs. Another recent EU paper said it is eroding the civil liberties of Arab-Israeli citizens.

The Jerusalem report recommended some sanctions-type measures.

It said the European Commission should propose a law "to prevent/discourage (EU) financial transactions in support of settlement activity." It urged the Union to "ensure" Israeli vegetables from farms on occupied land do not get preferential import tariffs. It also said EU countries should "share information on violent settlers ... to assess whether to grant entry into EU member states."

The reports have little impact on EU foreign policy, which is subject to veto by pro-Israeli countries such as the Netherlands and the Czech Republic. They also do little to influence Israel.

Israel's foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told EUobserver on Wednesday (18 January) the surveys are illegitimate because they are drafted without Israeli input.

"We will not dignify this dubious methodology with any public answer. I think the best answer to these serial reports is given by EU authorities, who always discuss these reports succinctly and shelve them with their unfeasible recommendations almost as quickly as they are raised," he said.

The 21-page Jerusalem survey drew attention to some hard facts of life for the 790,000 Palestinians who live in their Israeli-controlled holy city.

It said Arab quarters suffer from overcrowding, dirty streets and poor sewage facilities.

Palestinian children who go to Israeli-funded schools are given textbooks which are "edited to remove references to subjects considered sensitive, such as a picture of a Palestinian flag."

Ambulances trying to cross Israeli checkpoints with Palestinian patients in urgent condition face "unnecessary and potentially life-threatening delays."

During Ramadan, only children and middle-aged or older Palestinians are allowed to pray at the Al-Aqsa mosque, the third most sacred place in Islam.

At the same time, Jewish settlers in the Wadi Hilweh district next to the mosque are digging up ancient sites in a way as to put "emphasis on biblical and Jewish-Israeli connotations of the area while neglecting Arab/Muslim claims of historic-archaeological ties."


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(900701)

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jan 19 02:07:54 2012, in response to Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 01:43:40 2012.

The reports have little impact on EU foreign policy, which is subject to veto by pro-Israeli countries such as the Netherlands and the Czech Republic. They also do little to influence Israel.


You seem to have missed that part. And how is this any different than the views of nearly every other international government?

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(900704)

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EUEUEUEUEU pushing propaganda on kids at education fairs

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 02:42:02 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

Looks like "Good Father Houpette" was the tip of the iceberg.

Daily Mail

Revealed: How children are “brainwashed with European propaganda” handed out by EU staff at education fairs

European Commission official says they need “to start early enough with the young people before they form prejudices and are misinformed by other sources”

By Charles Walford
Last updated at 4:42 PM on 18th January 2012
EU “propaganda” is being handed out to teachers to indoctrinate pupils at a young age, it has emerged.

A Brussels official responsible for providing classroom material to UK schools admitted a desire to teach youngsters about the “values of EU membership” from a young age, before they are “misinformed”.

The revelation that aggressively pro-European leaflets were being handed out at an education fair to “brainwash” pupils has been heavily criticized.

UKIP deputy leader and education spokesman Paul Nuttall, MEP, told the Express: “It is what we always suspected but could never prove. Now we can. They (the EU) are effectively using our cash to brainwash our children. And it has to stop.”

A video has emerged of Judith Schilling, the European Commission’s publication manager, handing out EU-focused leaflets at the Education Show in Birmingham. She tells an interviewer: “Everybody has now picked up on the idea that we will never succeed to convince people about the value of being a member of the European Union if we do not start early enough with the young people before they form prejudices and are misinformed by other sources.”

Nuttall said he has written to Education Secretary Michael Gove and Schools Minister Nick Gibb saying the teaching program appears to breach the law banning promotion of “partisan political views” in schools. Pupils must be given a balanced presentation of issues, he said.

Nuttall has also called for the European Commission to be made to halt its schools program pending an inquiry and to order schools to stop using such aids.

UKIP leader Nigel Farage said: “It is vital that such an important issue, which is essentially the deliberate political indoctrination of our children, be dealt with in as open and as transparent a way as possible.”

It comes after the EU was accused of trying to “brainwash” children after pupils all over the country were given pencil cases with its logo emblazoned across it.

The brightly-colored pencil cases featuring the EU’s twelve-star logo were handed out to schoolchildren following an event encouraging teachers to forge links with the Commission.

The one-day conference was staged by Staffordshire County Council and was attended by fifty teachers to raise awareness of the EU in schools, it was reported.

On the Commission London HQ website, visitors can click “to enjoy our little movie” about its free educational publications. The video shows Schilling speaking about the various teaching tools being provided by the Commission.

The free material includes the “Passport to the EU“, containing “fun” information about the 27 member states. “I’ve been told by many teachers that they love it and the children love it,” says Schilling. There is also a “mini language guide” with samples of the EU’s 23 official languages, which she said was useful for primary schools.

For “slightly older” readers is “The EU: What’s in it for me?” explaining “how we benefit from membership of the EU in our daily life, everything between lower roaming charges and cleaner bathing water”.

Both booklets are still available in British schools, the Express found.

Mark English, a spokesman for the EU Commission in the UK, told the Express: “The Commission distributes information to teachers and schools only when invited. Some material refers to benefits that the EU brings and gives evidence for this. Others have different views and schools are free to invite them, too. The Commission does not seek to mislead and invites those who systematically promote an anti-EU agenda through the media also to make their arguments based on the facts.”

Tory MEP Emma McClarkin said: “This looks like a license to force-feed pupils a very one-sided, starry-eyed version of what the EU is and does for its people. We fear it will be a carte blanche to push the federalist agenda that is so close to the hearts of the Eurocrats.”


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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 19 08:26:29 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jan 19 02:07:54 2012.

What's an 'international government'? Is that the OIC and Arab League?

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 12:06:20 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jan 19 02:07:54 2012.

If you think that the Netherlands and the Czech Republic are pro-Israel, or that a seemingly pro-Israel vote is really such underneath, think again. You forgot about the stories where the Netherlands was looking to ban Shechita, or where the police in Amsterdam and lots of other Dutch cities use "decoy Jews" to catch those who attack the real thing? As for the Czechs, it doesn't make the media as much, but it's there.

And what's an "international government"? Hint: there's no such thing. Anything that purports to be such a thing is an empire.

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 12:07:07 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 19 08:26:29 2012.

If he says nothing against a divided Jerusalem, he's not as pro-Israel as he thinks he is.

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jan 19 13:45:01 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 12:06:20 2012.

The police using such novel techniques to fight antisemitism implies that the government is pro-Jewish if anything.

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 14:21:24 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jan 19 13:45:01 2012.

Uh, no. It indicates that they're scared to openly confront the antisemites.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 14:26:39 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU to undermine Area C (threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 18 14:23:51 2012.

That is your playbook

Um, not quite. You go after INN for being "right wing" (supposedly).

Of course, I'm a bit baffled as to how anyone can build illegally in an area. If the EU doesn't have permission to build, will Israel try destroying the structures, and what will be the EU's reaction when that happens?

It's more that the EU doesn't recognize Israel's sovereignty than a mere matter of having permission to build or not. Then again, they don't recognize the sovereignty of any of their member states (except for one) . . . their designs on the state of Israel are still unique.

If the map that a lead negotiator on the PLO Bargaining Team who I met with about two years ago showed at that presentation is in fact how Israel proposed to split the land at Camp David in 2000, the proposed Palestinian State simply was not viable because it was a patch state. A state with those borders is almost certainly doomed to fail

Not if your goal (as is the Palestinians' case) is a one-state solution, i.e. a Palestine and no Israel.

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jan 19 16:12:52 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 12:06:20 2012.

I might have chosen better words, but I was referring to the other governments in the international community.

You are still missing my point. Ignore the bit about the Betherlands and the Czech Republic. The point is these reports have little influence on the EU governments themselves or on Israel.

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jan 19 16:14:14 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 12:07:07 2012.

I've said many times I don't think a divided Jerusalem is feasible. Do I need to repeat my views on every Israel related post you make to maintain good standing in your eyes? In the same way my views aren't news, the fact that there are other people who think a divided Jerusalem is feasible isn't news either. Get over yourself...

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by 3-9 on Thu Jan 19 17:30:03 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 14:21:24 2012.

If they were scared to confront the anti-semites, they wouldn't bother with this, and either downplay it or sweep it under the rug.

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Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*)

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 19 21:03:21 2012, in response to Re: Now *Jerusalem* (EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land*), posted by 3-9 on Thu Jan 19 17:30:03 2012.

They are downplaying it. The right thing to do is to confront it more openly than trying to catch a few here and there via decoys.

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