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| (862915) | |
'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 21:55:05 2011 In an already depressed economy, some landlords don't want to go to the time and legal expense of evicting a tenant behind on their rent through the courts. Lately, there has been an uptick of so-called "backdoor evictions" in NYC, where people are forced from their homes without ever being served with eviction papers or appearing before a judge. The scheme, according to NYC Housing investigators, works something like this:1. Tenant falls behind on his/her rent. 2. Landlord, wanting tenant out immediately, dials 911, reports tenant has assaulted him/her, or committed some other crime requiring arrest and processing "through the system", that is, via Central Booking. 3. While tenant waits for arraignment (usually on charges of "assault" or "drug dealing"), landlord gets order of protection barring tenant from returning home once he or she gets out of jail. 4. Landlord removes tenant's belongings, changes locks, rents to new tenant. Believe it or not, landlords are actually getting away with this. Most displaced tenants have a very difficult time proving they are, in fact, innocent of the trumped-up accusations against them, and by then, they sure don't have the money to fight their landlords in court of any kind. Just another sign of the times we live in...thoughts? |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 24 21:57:04 2011, in response to 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 21:55:05 2011. Ingenius! |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 21:58:43 2011, in response to 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 21:55:05 2011. Oh please. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:01:56 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 21:58:43 2011. Of course, you, being a landlord, don't believe it. I, OTOH, being a tenant, have no difficulty at all in believing this. This, by the way, is coming from the Queens DA's office... |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:03:05 2011, in response to 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 21:55:05 2011. thoughts?Good for them! |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:07:42 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:03:05 2011. "Good for them"? You must be a landlord, too. If you are a renter, pray to God you don't get laid off or fired, fall behind, and have something like this befall you...it's apparently happening to quite a few people who've fallen on hard times... |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:08:56 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:01:56 2011. Please. Again, it's not "them vs us", as you seem to think it is. I had a tenant come to me a couple months ago with a bad financial situation, and reduced his rent a bit till he gets back on his feet. They know they have it good, and I am willing to work with people that are good to have, and have a good track record.In any event, do you have a link to back this claim up that isn't from a blog, etc? |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:09:53 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:07:42 2011. I'm neither a landlord nor a renter, but I have a relative that lost their home because a tenant moved in and never paid a dime in rent. Still it took somewhere around a year to get her evicted because that's how it is in California. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:10:11 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:07:42 2011. With all due respect, landlords aren't running a social service shelter. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:11:25 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:10:11 2011. He thinks that if you're a landlord that automatically makes you rich and if you expect anyone to pay rent in this economy that you're heartless. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:12:53 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:09:53 2011. That's about as long as it would take in NYC too. All landlords are not bloodsuckers, nor are they all "rich fucks". Many are just ordinary people with a small investment, and also live bill to bill. If they don't get paid, their bills don't get paid either. THIW. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:14:04 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:11:25 2011. I don't get the mindset. The bills still have to be paid on the building, whether the tenant pays or not. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:21:23 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:08:56 2011. It's part of a larger GBM News story I'm working on vis-a-vis LGBT tenants, and someone at the DA's office was talking about this with me today. I was up there researching evictions against gay tenants, and he brought it up. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:22:28 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:21:23 2011. ...as I figured. Nothing. And certainly not widespread.There are SOB landlords just as there are SOB tenants. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Oct 24 22:22:34 2011, in response to 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 21:55:05 2011. It's underhanded, sure, but they probably need to reduce the amount of time it takes to evict someone for non-payment of rent. This is business and no mun means no fun.your pal, Fred |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:23:02 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:12:53 2011. In Queens housing court, it takes about six weeks from service to eviction. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:26:18 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:23:02 2011. Not if they know how to fight it. There are tricks to slow it down greatly. At least out here. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:27:13 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:21:23 2011. Post a link when you're done. I don't know that I've ever been to the Glenn Beck Media website. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:29:53 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Fred G on Mon Oct 24 22:22:34 2011. Exactly. I know a elderly lady that has a 6 family house that basically lives on her social security, and what the building brings in. She somehow always wound up with deadbeats and she was working on two evictions at once, and she is owner occupied, so that means only three rents coming in from low rent stabilized apartments (of course tho tenants that weren't paying were the market rent apartments she had). And it takes almost a year to get people out, and numerous court appearances. And all cards are stacked against the landlord, no matter what the situation is.Deadbeats know the system, and know they are good for at least a half of year or year of free rent if they don't pay. It is business, and landlords aren't running homeless/social service shelters. And of course there are bad landlords too....no question, but there's plenty of good ones too. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:33:40 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Oct 24 22:23:02 2011. Please. That is outright FALSE. If the tenant just "disappears", and never shows up at ANY of the court appearances it still takes at LEAST 4-6 months before you can officially have him evicted (and that is if he DOESN't show up, heaven forbid he does, and gets one of MANY postponements they can get. And that 4-6 months is AFTER you already didn't get paid for two or three months before you can file. So that's a MINUMUM of at least 7-9 months of NO rent from the apartment, plus filing fees, court fees, lawyer fees, and time off from work to attend multiple hearins. 6 weeks my ASS. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:34:28 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:26:18 2011. There are here too. 6 weeks is absurd, even for the best of scenarios. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 22:34:30 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:22:28 2011. Perhaps it's because the person that is writing the story that will be posted on the internet hasn't finished writing it yet. Writers will often bounce things off friends to see what reactions are.The landlords that are doing this are contemptible, and should be held liable and responsible not only for filing false charges (a crime in itself) but in addition the replacement value of the tenant's personal property, and any other losses related to the unfounded charges placed against them. Period. This is criminal. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:39:18 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 22:34:30 2011. Oh, I totally understand that. But I am sure this isn't some widespread thing. I am sure "it's happened", but he is making it sound like this is some major thing happening all over the city. I call bluff.And no doubt, the FEW landlords that may have done this must be held liable, and are contemptible. But I also know there are PLENTy of tenants that are contemptible too. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:40:32 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:34:28 2011. True. Also you gotta figure that it's usually been at least a couple of months with no rent before they even start the process (30 months late). Sometimes 3 months. That's what happened to my sister-in-law. She went 3 or 4 months with no rent before starting the eviction process. The renter then lied about pretty much everything and was able to delay the hearing. My sister-in-law's case was then thrown out because the documents that she produced didn't exactly match the amount that she claimed that she was owed. It was like $5 difference, but the laws are very pro-tenant and the judge had no choice but to throw it out even though by that time she was really owed thousands more. It took another few months and some other BS to get the woman out. In the end she lived there a year, never paid a dime in rent, and my sister-in-law lost her house. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:41:16 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:40:32 2011. But afaik no one involved was gay, so there's no story there. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:42:12 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:41:16 2011. Of course not, exactly. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 22:49:05 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:39:18 2011. There isn't enough information to make that call. All the facts we have is that a DA's office told a reporter about a trend they are seeing. Surely it's happened more than once. Time will tell on the rest. It's impossible to tell if it's a few or many landlords engaging in this, but any that are must be charged with felony fraud (and do serious time for same) and be held liable for the damages done to the tenants involved. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 24 22:50:09 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Fred G on Mon Oct 24 22:22:34 2011. I once had the tenant from hell in the form of a 60s something woman. She got angry over something so she put stoppers in the kitchen sink and the bath tub - turned the hot water on and left the apartment. My wife heard the water running, realized the bitch went out, so she went into the basement and shut the water to the apartment.When she came home and found no flood, she called the police and wanted me arrested for entering her apartment. The cop obviously wasn't going to arrest me but he said that I had to turn the water back on in the apartment. He told me I could go to court and based on his report she might be evicted in 6 months. The next day I saw her leaving the apartment, I whispered something to her and told her she had until the end of the month to be out. On the last day at about 10 PM she left for good. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:51:53 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 22:49:05 2011. I saw this "claim" about a year ago somewhere. I don't remember if it was here, or where I read it, but if this was some major widewpread thing, it would be more info on it by now.And why do you keep saying that they should be "charged with felony and held liable". Well DUH. I still call bluff on this being more than a few random cases. |
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Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:55:40 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:51:53 2011. Well lookie here, I knew I heard this song and dance before here. I found it. It was just as absurd back then:http://www.subchat.com/otchat/read.asp?Id=715460 |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:56:29 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:51:53 2011. We both saw the same thing here I think. Something about landlords calling the police and claiming that tenants had guns or drugs to evict them. I think that it was JayZee that said that. |
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Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 24 22:57:15 2011, in response to Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:55:40 2011. interesting |
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Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:58:55 2011, in response to Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:55:40 2011. Thanks! Just like I thought it was JayZee that said that. He invented a story to write about. Not that it doesn't happen, but you can see how he already had an opinion settled before starting. |
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Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:59:45 2011, in response to Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 22:58:55 2011. Yup exactly. |
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Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:01:37 2011, in response to Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 24 22:57:15 2011. It was one of the easiest google searches for subchat I ever did.....I just searched google "landlord order protection tenant eviction www.subchat.com jayzeebmt" |
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Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by danD124 on Mon Oct 24 23:04:15 2011, in response to Re: Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:01:37 2011. it's easier if you start the search with site:subchat.com rather than just put subchat.com in search. |
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Re: Déjà vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 24 23:06:01 2011, in response to Deja vu Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:55:40 2011. This ain't one of his greatest hits either. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:09:21 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 22:49:05 2011. All the facts we have is that a DA's office told a reporter about a trend they are seeing.I am even suspiscious of that now, as back in January, it was the EXACT same supposed scenario, except instead of "assault", it was "The tenant is storing guns". Looks more like a good story looking for facts to back it up. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:09:21 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 22:51:53 2011. All I know of is what was posted here. IMO, it's probably happening more than enough to warrant legislative action if current law in insufficient to provide redress for wronged tenants. Any landlord (or the board members of a corporate entity) must be held criminally and civilly liable for such an action. Period. The cost of doing something like this...effectively ruining someone's life (in this day and age, it's impossible to get a job if one has so much as a parking ticket) MUST be met with appropriate penalties to ensure tenants are made whole long term. That and only that will put an end to this, as these landlords are motivated solely by money, so the financial pain they will encounter must be beyond that necessary to put a clear end to this. Leases are legal contracts, and they must be held to. The law provides sufficient means to resolve financial breaches. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:12:08 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:09:21 2011. We'll see. If you're that obsessed, call the Queens DA's office and ask for yourself. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by danD124 on Mon Oct 24 23:13:01 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 22:34:30 2011. do you feel the same way about women who file false domestic violence claims in a divorce? |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:14:27 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:09:21 2011. All I know of is what was posted here.Yes, what was posted here was the exact same scenario as almost a year ago, except this time the claim was "assault" rather than "guns being stored". Any landlord (or the board members of a corporate entity) must be held criminally and civilly liable for such an action. Period. DUH, for the 4th time. The cost of doing something like this... MUST be met with appropriate penalties Duh for the 5th time. That and only that will put an end to this, as these landlords are motivated solely by money, so the financial pain they will encounter must be beyond that necessary to put a clear end to this. You mean an end to this story looking for facts? And for the random FEW scenarios where this "story looking for facts" may have happend? |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:14:34 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:09:21 2011. All I know of is what was posted here.Yes, what was posted here was the exact same scenario as almost a year ago, except this time the claim was "assault" rather than "guns being stored". Any landlord (or the board members of a corporate entity) must be held criminally and civilly liable for such an action. Period. DUH, for the 4th time. The cost of doing something like this... MUST be met with appropriate penalties Duh for the 5th time. That and only that will put an end to this, as these landlords are motivated solely by money, so the financial pain they will encounter must be beyond that necessary to put a clear end to this. You mean an end to this story looking for facts? And for the random FEW scenarios where this "story looking for facts" may have happend? |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 23:14:53 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:09:21 2011. IMO, it's probably happening more than enough to warrant legislative actionBased on what? |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:16:07 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:12:08 2011. I don't really care. It seems YOU are obsessed. After all "all the landlords engaging in this 'widespread' occurrence must be punished". |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:16:28 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by danD124 on Mon Oct 24 23:13:01 2011. Do you think that baiting questions that have no bearing on the issue being discussed mandate an answer? |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:17:12 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 23:14:53 2011. LOL. Based on a wild scenario JayZee made back in January about the same exact topic, except back then with guns and explosives instead of assault. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:18:00 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:16:28 2011. That would be a "no".... |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by danD124 on Mon Oct 24 23:18:25 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by bingbong on Mon Oct 24 23:16:28 2011. it is relevant; i'm trying to see if you think all false police reports should be treated the same way. |
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Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 24 23:18:38 2011, in response to Re: 'Backdoor Evictions' Roil Housing Crisis, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 24 23:17:12 2011. I think that it's based on:Landlords = Evil capitalists Tenants - Exploited pawns |
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