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| Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing (848276) | |
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| (848586) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 16:49:56 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 15:34:03 2011. Something like "minimum level of doubt" is subjective. Subjective standards have no place in something so important. |
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| (848590) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 16:52:09 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 16:49:56 2011. How about confessions? |
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| (848591) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 16:52:25 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 15:38:15 2011. They still have to go through the motions. |
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| (848599) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Sep 27 17:00:37 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 10:27:26 2011. We can watch the hangings and eat NOUGAT* candy.*This candy was traditionally sold to spectators at Newgate's public executions. The pronunciation in the Queen's English is the same. (Nougat-Newgate) |
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| (848600) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 17:02:09 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 16:18:15 2011. But I disagree with that because I see no value to communal vengeance. Our society should be based less on our instincts and more on our reason. So long as the possibility of executing an innocent person is nonzero, it is not worthwhile. |
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| (848602) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 17:05:10 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 16:52:09 2011. Even those are unreliable. |
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| (848604) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 17:06:17 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Sep 27 17:00:37 2011. That's made-up. |
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| (848606) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Sep 27 17:07:57 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 17:06:17 2011. I'll eat the candy anyway, it's a favorite. |
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| (848615) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Sep 27 17:27:05 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 15:34:03 2011. The need for vengeance is a part of human nature. The whole point of organized criminal justice is to codify that urge.No it's not. The whole point of the criminal code is to avert anarchy and retain the foundations of a civilized society for those who follow its rules. Those who choose not to, need to have penalties assessed that are commensurate with the violation, in order to protect those very rules, that in democratic societies, the majority has agreed to through elected institutions (and that they can change in the future through the same process), whether its parking in front of a fire hydrant or committing murder In some cases, it requires the removal of the offending individual from society (a prison sentence). In others, a fine, or probation, house arrest, rehab, mental health care or some other form of supervision will suffice. The scope of the system is not the punishment of law-breakers. It's the protection of law-abiders. |
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| (848622) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Sep 27 18:01:17 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 13:07:46 2011. Vengeance...how I love it. |
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| (848633) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 27 18:41:35 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 13:07:46 2011. sure ... not |
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| (848637) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Sep 27 18:44:00 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 27 18:41:35 2011. not?Why you are not working? |
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| (848642) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 27 18:50:25 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 16:49:03 2011. Right, nor war either, the other parasox.your pal, Fred |
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| (848656) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 27 19:55:02 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 16:48:28 2011. "Judeo-Christian". |
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| (848659) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 27 19:58:19 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 27 19:55:02 2011. ...slowly I turn...your pal, Fred |
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| (848672) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 27 20:10:05 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 13:03:15 2011. are you sure td ? |
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| (848681) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 20:30:13 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 16:49:56 2011. Something like "minimum level of doubt" is subjective.Not necessarily. All facts are subject to this criterion (since absolute proof is impossible outside of pure mathematics/logic). Granted, in few criminal cases is something proved to a scientific level of certainty, but an acceptable level (again, subject to some chosen point) of proof is possible. To put it another way, no system will, even in non-capital cases, guarantee that absolutely no innocents are punished, but I'd be satisfied with a system that gets the wrongful convicted down to less than 0.1% rather than like the 20% The Innocence Project had shown it to be. |
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| (848682) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 27 20:31:21 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 20:30:13 2011. i think its 20% wrongful convictions at the least |
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| (848684) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 20:34:03 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 17:02:09 2011. But I disagree with that because I see no value to communal vengeance.But whether there is a value to "communal vengeance," in terms that it would be beneficial to society is an empirical proposition that can be evaluated with reason. Clearly, there are crimes that are horribly heinous, the question is does it serve us well to kill the perpetrators of such crimes even though the possibility of killing an innocent is not zero. I believe that it is, but it is in principle possible to evaluate this. |
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| (848697) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 20:51:06 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by SMAZ on Tue Sep 27 17:27:05 2011. >>>1The need for vengeance is a part of human nature. The whole point of organized criminal justice is to codify that urge.No it's not. No it's not to which? :p The whole point of the criminal code is to avert anarchy And that is what I meant by codifying vengeance, much like marriage codifies sex. Civilization maintains order by dispatching punishment for transgression and keeping individuals from having to take matters into their own hands—Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan—without which we wouldn't be able to have an orderly society. Otherwise I'm in agreement with the rest of your post. |
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| (848737) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 21:39:49 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 27 20:10:05 2011. just plain TD |
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| (848738) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 27 21:40:41 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 27 20:31:21 2011. where did you get that number (this ought to be good) |
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| (848741) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 21:46:46 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 20:30:13 2011. I'd be satisfied with a wrongful conviction rate of something greater than 0 in non-capital cases only. |
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| (848786) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Sep 28 00:46:49 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayMan on Tue Sep 27 20:51:06 2011. And that is what I meant by codifying vengeance,It doesn't codify vengeance. It codifies order and safety. Society doesn't penalize the owner of a double-parked vehicle or the guy who parks in front of a fire hydrant out of vengeance. It does so to keep order and safe conditions. Civilization depends on these rules. |
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| (848861) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Sep 28 07:45:57 2011, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by SMAZ on Wed Sep 28 00:46:49 2011. Society doesn't penalize the owner of a double-parked vehicle or the guy who parks in front of a fire hydrant out of vengeance.Hehe, how much time have you spent in New York City? :P |
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| (2045205) | |
Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Sep 8 23:26:36 2026, in response to Re: The Death Penalty: Why some people need killing, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Sep 27 13:26:22 2011. BS. |
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