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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 12:34:30 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by orange blossom special on Fri May 13 12:20:52 2011. You will never get 5 weeks off like most other countries, because every holiday you currently have is sued by a leftist Democrat for being too religious in nature, and therefore "unconstitutional"Maybe he wants "Christian socialism" instead? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 12:35:27 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by orange blossom special on Fri May 13 12:16:50 2011. land ownership in Europe is difficult to attain at bestThey do have vestigial feudalism over there. |
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Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 12:38:54 2011, in response to Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...), posted by Scrabbleship on Fri May 13 12:14:08 2011. Extremist conservatives may have their own poison but it's the liberals who want to dissolve our form of government in favor of some international socialist utopia where everyone has freedom of speech as long as the party agrees. It's a shame that George Orwell chose "1984"for a title because the book is more relevant today but the title suggests not. |
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Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 12:44:55 2011, in response to Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...), posted by Scrabbleship on Fri May 13 12:14:08 2011. You think? Maybe you should try thinking instead of "bellyfeel". |
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Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 12:45:28 2011, in response to Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...), posted by Scrabbleship on Fri May 13 11:49:41 2011. Liar. It's the leftists that are killing the country. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Fri May 13 13:22:02 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by orange blossom special on Fri May 13 12:14:39 2011. And SMAZ made fun of me for using the term Womens Lib! |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 13:42:34 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 08:55:44 2011. OMG! You're saying that Smaz turned republican? Say it ain't so! |
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Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 13:57:28 2011, in response to Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 12:38:54 2011. Yeah, your guys coming up with their fifth reich is MUCH better. Do you have ze papers for ze plane? :-\ |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:00:28 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 13:42:34 2011. No kevin, need I remind you that the democrats have a long proud history of racism dating back to south of years ago. You and smaz seem to be kindred spirits although you are a bit less racist but a bit more anti-Semitic. But you both are proud rasist liberals, none the less. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:01:21 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by orange blossom special on Fri May 13 12:13:42 2011. It IS complex indeed. Wish I had time to chide in on it but it really deserves a proper sitting and things are a bit too busy on this end. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:04:41 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:01:21 2011. Oh yeah, you seem very busy, today! You must be compiling again. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:08:33 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 12:34:30 2011. Anti-Christian statement! |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:28:34 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:00:28 2011. OK, Al ... whatever you say. Thanks for watching out for the downtrodden and doing your bit to increase the peace. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:32:52 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:28:34 2011. Any time |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:34:08 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:04:41 2011. Happens every day ... but natch, as always, you're on your ass. Wait. You *are* an ass! :) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:34:45 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:32:52 2011. So when's the rally? :) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:40:54 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:34:08 2011. You keep making such a fool of yourself and no one will let you off the hook. I'm loving it. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:42:02 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:32:52 2011. I'll be up there June 5th. Come to Delmonicos around 7 and I'll happily discuss it with you - face to face, so to speak. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri May 13 14:46:41 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:42:02 2011. Kevin and Steve Sitting in a Tree... |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:52:47 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:42:02 2011. The dump next to Smokey Bones? LOL. Enjoy ... :) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:54:15 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Railman718 on Fri May 13 14:46:41 2011. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri May 13 14:57:11 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:54:15 2011. Yup i can see it now you two get wasted, strip and run screaming down the road saying EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU!!!!!!!! |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 15:00:55 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Railman718 on Fri May 13 14:57:11 2011. Nah ... that's a downstate thing. Up here, we sing "Oh Canada" in French. :) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri May 13 15:01:55 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 15:00:55 2011. Ah soooo thats the song you two drunks are planning on singng.. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 15:05:43 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Railman718 on Fri May 13 15:01:55 2011. Perhaps "La Marseillaise" ala LePetomaine perhaps ... :) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 15:23:15 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 14:00:28 2011. Funny how in every country that advertises itself as "socialist", the racism and discrimination increases instead of the other way around . . . |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 13 18:11:31 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by orange blossom special on Fri May 13 12:16:50 2011. And land ownership in Europe is difficult to attain at best.
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Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...) |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri May 13 19:17:28 2011, in response to Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 12:38:54 2011. George Orwell chose "1984" as the title since he wrote it in 1948. No other reason. |
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Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 19:39:26 2011, in response to Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...), posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri May 13 19:17:28 2011. No, that wasn't the only reason. |
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Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 13 19:56:55 2011, in response to Re: Fill in the Numbers (Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America...), posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri May 13 19:17:28 2011. No other reason. Wrong, Dan Lawrence. This 1948 explanation, although widely adopted, is actually not that well attested. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 21:21:44 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 15:23:15 2011. And those he ascribe to socialist views here are the biggest racists as well. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 21:53:51 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 14:52:47 2011. Well now that you know where it is, I'll be looking forward to seeing you... |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 13 22:08:58 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by Train Dude on Fri May 13 21:53:51 2011. Oh get over yourself, will ya? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by JayMan on Fri May 13 23:22:12 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 12 20:28:34 2011. IQ is positively correlated with work ethic. This is true both within races, where higher IQ individuals also tend to be more disciplined and conscientious, and between the races, where individuals matched for IQ vary in their level of discipline, with East Asians working harder than Whites, who work harder than brown people, who work harder than Blacks. Even within the races there appears to be a variation in work ethic—as you noted. Europeans of Germanic descent (English, Germans, Scandinavians) tend to be harder working than those of more Romance descent (French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians). This is perhaps due to genetic differences between these groups, and may explain the different attitudes Germanic peoples have towards work than Romanesque Europeans.IQ is far from all that is important for success, as it only explains roughly 30% of the variance in income, but it is the single largest factor that does so. Other traits, like conscientiousness, determination are also at play. But these traits are also partly heritable, just as is IQ. Taken together, IQ, personality, and other heritable traits explain most of the variance in earnings. In fact, the correlation between parents and children in income is almost entirely explained by heredity. But leaving work ethic aside, IQ is still important because work—especially for cognitively demanding work—is much easier to do when you have a higher IQ. Higher IQ individuals do not need to work as hard to get the same work done as do those with lower IQ’s. Ashkenazi Jews are a perfect example. They clearly do not work as hard as E. Asians do, but as a group perform as well or better, and this is because they have higher IQ’s (µ=113 vs 106, respectively), and better verbal intelligence. The modern economic paradigm is that all people can be uplifted to Western standards of economic performance if they just had the capital investment; this is false, because all people do not have the traits of Western peoples. My contention is that one of the factors that has inhibited European-style socialism from taking hold in America is this country’s large population of underperforming groups. Most people who make social policy are aware—either consciously or unconsciously—that the darker minorities would not make such a system efficient, as they’d take more out of the system than they’d contribute. Even in that past, the U.S. was never truly homogeneous, but this irrelevant, because Europe was not socialist then either. The foundation of the modern European social welfare model mostly came about in the 20th century, and then most in the Post-War era. The U.S. never developed that social harmony because it for so long consisted of distinct groups tribally fighting for their own stake, and America failed to adopt a social welfare system despite FDR’s desire to create one. "why 5 weeks guaranteed paid vacation, free day care, mandated parental leave, and free universal health care are bad things " They are only bad for people who are unemployed. Get a job and you can get this in some companies. Bring back Bush or Gringrich and give us full employment and we will be soon on a 4 day workweek. All people in European countries have these things, as a right. Americans have to work hard to get them, and most do not, many Americans only getting two weeks paid vacation, if that, which they often do not take. This still doesn’t answer the question why—if these things were rights—they would be bad. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 23:32:32 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 11:29:13 2011. If you give a worker 5 weeks of paid vacation as opposed to zero, you are paying them more for 47 weeks of work. It is in effect an increase in the minimum wage. Arguably, this would suppress employment. In theory, employers could lower wages (where they are not at minimum) to compensate, paying people for their 47 weeks of work but over 52 weeks.There is also preference: An employer could offer more vacation in exchange for lower wages. It would be interesting to see whether workers choose the more vacation or higher wage scheme. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 23:33:30 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 23:32:32 2011. Similar arguments apply to the other benefits you mentioned. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 23:34:23 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by orange blossom special on Fri May 13 12:20:52 2011. Easter is on Sunday. Most people already get Sunday off. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Dand124 on Fri May 13 23:39:59 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 11:29:13 2011. 5 weeks guaranteed paid vacationThere’s no such thing as a paid vacation; if you mandate paid vacation the end result would be lower salaries this would have a disastrous effect on people just getting by. free day care That would require reinstating slavery; unless by “free” you mean taxpayer funded, in that case it’s a transfer of wealth form people who don’t have kids in daycare to people who do. mandated parental leave Do you mean people would be required to take leave even if they don’t want to? If you mean requiring employers to provide paid leave than it’s the same as paid vacation time. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri May 13 23:45:28 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Fri May 13 23:22:12 2011. A rain barrel is a right and I look forward to your response in that thread. Please post a photo too.Free day care in Europe because so many people don't have kids or have just one kid. That makes it cheap compared to a society like ours where so many people have a large family. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 23:47:13 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Dand124 on Fri May 13 23:39:59 2011. Do you mean people would be required to take leave even if they don’t want to? If you mean requiring employers to provide paid leave than it’s the same as paid vacation time.And is also redistribution from those without children to those with. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 13 23:55:13 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by LuchAAA on Fri May 13 23:45:28 2011. More anti-family Marxism. This won't lead to peace; it'll lead in the opposite direction. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by JayMan on Fri May 13 23:56:35 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 12 15:40:31 2011. >>You're very one-dimensional aren't you?Are you serious? You've been ranting and raving about IQ, "Dark skinned", and immigrants for months now. Because you’re either not reading what I’m posting or you’re not getting it. Your shtick is that colored people are bad, they cause crime, that whites are being squeezed out, and can’t say so anything about it without being called racist. That seems to be all you see. Yes, yes, we get that. These all possess a degree of truth. But they are also way too simplistic. There are plenty of good black and brown people and there are plenty of shitty white people, even if don’t have an equal chance of meeting these people than the reverse (unless you visit Appalachia). I am well aware of race issues, and I’m not sure why you’re not noticing, but most of what I’ve said in this thread only SUPPORTS your agenda. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by JayMan on Sat May 14 00:05:15 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 23:32:32 2011. Naturally this would have to accompanied by increased taxes to the rates they are in Europe to pay for it. But no one has explained to me why this is a problem. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 14 00:07:21 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by LuchAAA on Fri May 13 23:45:28 2011. Did I miss your Chicago firefighter thread? Are you slippin'? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by JayMan on Sat May 14 00:08:36 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Dand124 on Fri May 13 23:39:59 2011. There’s no such thing as a paid vacation; if you mandate paid vacation the end result would be lower salaries this would have a disastrous effect on people just getting by.Not if accompanied by increased taxes and a higher minimum wage, if necessary. >>>free day care That would require reinstating slavery; unless by “free” you mean taxpayer funded, in that case it’s a transfer of wealth form people who don’t have kids in daycare to people who do. That would be good. We need to encourage high-ability people to have more children, particularly among Whites and E. Asians. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by JayMan on Sat May 14 00:10:07 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by LuchAAA on Fri May 13 23:45:28 2011. The ones who have large families are primarily the Latinos, which demonstrates my point about minorities from my OP. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 14 00:11:13 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Sat May 14 00:05:15 2011. How would increased taxes be necessary? You would subsidize the vacation time directly? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 14 00:12:54 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Sat May 14 00:08:36 2011. Not if accompanied by increased taxes and a higher minimum wage, if necessary.The latter would also have a negative effect by decreasing the number of low wage jobs available. The higher taxes would also depress real incomes. Arguably, the new benefits would compensate, but this would in effect be a redistribution from those who make use of the services to those who don't. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Dand124 on Sat May 14 00:20:18 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Sat May 14 00:08:36 2011. Not if accompanied by increased taxesIt’s still not a paid vacation it’s an interest free loan to the government that is paid back when you take a vacation. If people wanted less pay and more vacation there would be more jobs with less pay and more vacation. and a higher minimum wage That would lead to higher unemployment. We need to encourage high-ability people to have more children, particularly among Whites and E. Asians. Why? Who cares what a racial makeup of the country is. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 14 00:21:20 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Fri May 13 23:56:35 2011. I don't don't think that all colored people are bad.Yes, you always support my "agenda"(actually I don't have one), and the environment you live in confirms what I've said about you and a few others who post here. |
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