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Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 20:39:47 2011 Not that it can't work, but this is why it doesn't (to date). Properly executed a more European-esce social welfare system could be set up in the U.S, the type that Michael Moore advocates with 5+ weeks guaranteed paid vacations, free quality day care, government house maids, and healthcare for all. The reason it hasn't: minorities—that is, black and brown ones.I've wondered why the U.S. is so far to the right politically compared to the other First World nations, and my recent exploration of race differences has led me to see a good part of the reason why (at least, why it persists, not necessarily why things started this way): we have large underperforming minorities. Nearly 30% of the U.S. population consists of blacks and “Hispanics”, a proportion that is rapidly increasing, both to the poor fertility of whites and the high fecundity of the “Hispanic” groups (some of which no doubt actually are of primarily European ancestry, but the bulk of which consists of various Mestizos). By contrast all the other First World nations are generally ethnically homogenous, each of the European countries typically consisting of one dominant group of people (and the ones that aren’t/weren’t were sites of ethnic strife, like the UK’s Northern Ireland or the former Yugoslavia), as do Japan, South Korea, as well as Canada, Australia (both ~90% white) and New Zealand (~75% white). This is part of the reason for the difference in layout between European cities and American ones; with no minorities to flee from in the inner cities, there was no “white flight”, hence the general absence of sprawling suburbs in Europe. Part of the problem is heterogeneity itself. Despite the popular mantras, diversity is more of a source of strife and division than it is of strength. Not only do areas that are more ethnically homogenous have lower crime rates and less internal turmoil, people are also nicer and are more trusting of one another. In fact, in ethnically diverse areas, people are more mistrustful of everyone, even those of their own ethnic group. While this is plainly evident by contrasting any major city (outside the Northwest anyway) with the more lily white suburb/rural areas, it is also evident between cities (contrast the behavior of the people of Quebec City, which is all white and French, with Montreal, which is not much so), and even within the people of color themselves, as the black crime rate is considerably lower in the old Black belt of the Southeast where in many places blacks make up a majority of the population. In homogenous areas, people are more inclined to look out for one another as there is a greater sense of community between them (such as towns in rural Missouri I visited where all drivers wave to each other). People are more likely to see someone who is downtrodden as potentially being themself one day rather than the fate of a loser as they do in the cities. People in ethnically homogenous areas are much more apt to pay taxes and support schools as they see the funding as educating their own children and grandchildren, as we see with Bernie Sanders' initiative for true universal health care in Vermont. The lesson is that tribalism is simply a part of human nature, as there are obvious evolutionary reasons for favoring your own kind (the size of the natural tribe varies among the races, increasing as you go north). This is not to say that this is the way it should be, but it is what IS. (Note that there is a considerable downside to homogeneity: while people in these places are cordial to each other, they are not necessarily accepting of outsiders, some places more than others). As well, there the is issue of economic performance, in terms of ability, work ethic, and morality, where there are serious and visible group differences between whites and black and brown people, with whites comparing favorably in all three categories. As my last two posts on the topic demonstrate, despite what whites, even liberals say publicly, they are all aware of these differences between themselves and the other major racial groups in the country. It’s harder to sell the idea of everyone pooling together to create a more robust social safety net when we have groups of people that are seen—somewhat correctly—as those who will leech off this system and not contribute, sit at home and collect welfare, use drugs, pop out babies who will eat up food assistance and health care funds, and grow up to become violent thugs that terrorize good hard working people (it’s also important to note that most people have a hard time with the statistical nature of stereotypes, and I’m hoping some of you won’t go ahead and prove me right on that). This is quite different from supporting the unlucky family whose adults are temporarily out of work or the poor college student working his/her way up, because these individuals are more likely to one day contribute to the safety net themselves, and the occasional white mooch could be tolerated (although because of the increasing genetic stratification of society as social barriers to success are removed, a persistent underclass would exist even in an all-white society, as it does in Canada and Europe). This, I suspect, is in good part at the root of American conservative attitudes: self-reliance, hard-work, anti-entitlement, individualism; it’s born out of a visceral desire to not have hard-working (white) American’s wealth redistributed to lazy and undeserving black and brown people (and worthless white people). (The other of part American conservatism is due to the religious fanaticism that exists in here, partly due, ironically, to America’s freedom of religion that bred stiff competition for crazy among religions in their quest for followers). This is why Americans are reluctant to institute universal healthcare (something I can say I’ve heard explicitly said from some whites, as they feared that “Obamacare” was all about taking away healthcare from whites and giving it to blacks), why we are reluctant to pay more taxes for schools (since most of our education tax dollars are spent on the endless quest to bring colored people up to par), why (white) Americans even oppose measures that would stand to benefit them; they don’t want their families’ (potential) earnings taken by the government to support black and brown people on welfare. Even if not stated openly, this I suspect is the underlying motives driving conservative politics in this country. It is true that because of the large minority population, a European-style socialist system, if copied exactly, probably wouldn’t work here, as the tax-base to support it wouldn’t be as robust. In fact, as Europe gains its own brown people, in the form of Middle Easterners and North Africans, they have moved farther to the right and have railed against the newcomers who are creating a large underclasses in the Europeans' previously homogenous societies. (This is to say nothing of the outsourcing of manufacturing to China and other places that is eroding the economies and tax bases of all the First World nations except Germany). So what’s the solution? As someone who favors a European-style social safety net, how would we go about implementing it? Perhaps fortunately, if something like this would come to pass at all, it would have to be gradual, much as Obama’s health care reform, due to the acrid political climate. But since I’ve advocated measures to reverse the dysgenic trend in fertility, something that is essential if the United States wishes to remain competitive, perhaps as the IQ’s and productivity of the people rise, a more and more robust social welfare systems could be set up, to finally compassionately deal with the people on the bottom rungs of society and crafting a better and more considerate society for us all. Note that this is STILL not the promised groundbreaking post I promised, that will touch on a much more fundamental topic (and I mean really fundamental). |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 21:17:19 2011, in response to Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 20:39:47 2011. Your analysis is faulty and misconceived.if the reason were the ones that you described, then why didn't we do the stuff the Europeans, Australians, Canadians and Japanese did at a time in the past when we were much more whiter and racially homogeneous? The reason race plays such a major role in US policies is that a substantial minority of Americans (including a majority in certain areas) will rather live in misery themselves than do anything that may even marginally help out blacks and other minorities even if it helps themselves in the process. this has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with fear of race mixing. I have lived in both US and European societies and the reason they've got the nice things that we don't is because when it comes to economic interests, they put aside whatever xenophobia and racism they may harbor (and they harbor a lot of it) and vote their economic interests. A corporatist party cannot play on racial fears and think that it will somehow translate into support for weakening health care, education, worker rights and advancing supply-side nonsense. They made a clear choice after the war that the kind of money that they were previously spending on militaristic dead-ends would be spent at home on themselves instead. There is a much higher class awareness there because of their history. They know damn well that the way to bring yourself up is through solid education, good health and a strong old age and safety net system for when times get tough and that the pursuit of happiness starts at home by spending quality time with their families and pursuing other pursuits and not by believing in the fairy tales pushed by self-serving and self-perpetuating monied interests. All these factors has made them surpass us in upward mobility quite a while ago even though studies show that the average American actually has a higher IQ than that of people in most European countries. They laugh at us and our priorities as they should. They laugh that we are still debating evolution here. They laugh that our military builds clinics in Iraq while our own children die for lack of health insurance. They laugh that a person is still paying off college loans at 40 while being forced into a job he/she hates just because it makes paying off those loans easier. They laugh that a person cannot start his own business because he/she or a family member cannot get health insurance due to a pre-existing condition. They laugh that someone is willing to forgo valuable vacation time thinking that there may be something in it for them at the end when the only result will be a quick layoff, family disintegration and a whole lot of "what ifs". Your fixation on trying to find IQ as a determining factor in every variable fails to take into consideration (often traumatic) centuries of historical and cultural differences between our country and theirs. OTOH, we've got something that they can only dream of having. We've got Barack Obama. We've got Hope. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Wed May 11 21:21:42 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 21:17:19 2011. :) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 11 21:25:46 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 21:17:19 2011. What is truly amazing is that your pea-sized brain generates enough power to make your feet move. Please stay away from trying to think. You ain't built for it. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 21:44:29 2011, in response to Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 20:39:47 2011. Is this your "controversial post" you were trying so hard to come up with . . . ? Ho-hum.As for socialism, hundreds of millions (might even reach billions) of political victims of murder have their blood crying out for vengeance. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 11 22:07:40 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 21:17:19 2011. IAWTP |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 22:23:43 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 21:44:29 2011. It's the decent, honest, moral, fearless and freedom-loving people from every country, of every religion, every race and every sex who continue to sing the wonderful and unifying anthems of liberation and social justice in every language ever created to this day while your shitty, hateful and forgotten Fascist music is only sung by a handful of pathetic, brown-shirted, brain-damaged hooligan losers.Throughout history, the People, united, have always crushed the Tyranny of the entrenched and parasitic self-appointed despots and freed themselves from the chains that enslaved their body and their mind, including in this country. That's how it's always been and always will be. Reason will always prevail over superstition. Liberty will always defeat oppression and Love will always triumph over Hate. It is even written in the Word. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 11 22:25:50 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 22:23:43 2011. "Love will always triumph over Hate. "So we can expect you to be struck by lightning exactly when? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 22:33:03 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 21:44:29 2011. I guess you weren't kidding when you said you don't read my posts.... |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 11 22:41:14 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 22:33:03 2011. With him, it's a one note samba. Even David Peel knew three chords. :) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 11 22:53:47 2011, in response to Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 20:39:47 2011. LOL |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Wed May 11 23:36:08 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 22:23:43 2011. unifying anthems of liberationWomens Liberation? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:36:31 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 11 22:53:47 2011. He's bucking for an extra dose of thorazine, I think . . . |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:37:26 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 22:23:43 2011. Do you want the Founding Fathers to rise out of their graves and eat your brains or something . . . ? They'll go hungry in that case. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 23:39:25 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SMAZ on Wed May 11 21:17:19 2011. I am all for European-style socialism here in the US, and you know I love Obama. But a couple of things here:
There is no question that the reason that race plays such a major role in U.S. because the races are, as a whole, different from one another, and these differences have implications for policy. The truth of the matter is that—far from being kept down by whites—blacks as a group are doing pretty well for themselves considering their lower IQ's, so inasmuch as they have been the recipients of help from society, it has worked. Fear of race mixing has been a driver in policy here, but that itself is a symptom of fears about minorities, some of which proved to be correct. You are correct that Europeans are less xenophobic in terms of their behavior, but as they are for the most part homogeneous societies, there was no need for that be expressed. The rest of the things you expressed are pretty much what I described. Europeans after WWII decided to take care of their society and their people (mind you that previously they were much like Americans with regard to social welfare, if not even worse). Upward mobility occurred in both the U.S. and Europe, as reconstruction after the war helped people cut off from access to education and modern amenities had an opportunity to climb the social ladder. On both sides of the Atlantic this process is ending and as society begins to stratisfy along genetic lines. But the homogeneous, forward thinking societies that post war Europeans have crafted lend themselves to the progress—intellectually—that they have had. I find IQ, and more broadly, demographic factors important to explain these distinction because it obviously does. These are significant to a variety of social factors. But I didn't say that they were the only factors that were relevant. Cultural and historic differences are at play. That said, whites in Europe have a lot in common with whites in the States, and all over the world. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:51:28 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 23:39:25 2011. I am all for European-style socialism here in the USSounds like you want no freedom and to live on the dole. Before you start begging for "European-style socialism", you'd better take a long hard look at where that's been and where it's leading, especially the latter. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 11 23:58:12 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:37:26 2011. Please, a squirrel ran up his leg and starved to death. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 00:02:37 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:51:28 2011. Sounds like you want no freedomFreedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu May 12 00:03:04 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:51:28 2011. Sounds like you want no freedom and to live on the dole.I must admit, living on welfare is does allow for a certain degree of freedom as one is free to spend their time at home doing very little with their meager income. For some, they're very happy sitting around playing video games and surfing the internet on their low incomes, while for others, their ideal yearly railfanning budget requires a six figure income. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 12 00:22:06 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:36:31 2011. I wonder if he'd like to see the government seize that big piece of property he showed off the other day? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 00:29:06 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 12 00:22:06 2011. Socialism is quite different from Marxism. People do own property in Europe and Canada... |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 00:31:50 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 00:29:06 2011. Socialism is quite different from Marxism. People do own property in Europe and Canada...and they have no property taxes or only token ones. It's America that is Communism Central where the State can kick you out if ITS property if you don't pay the rent to them. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 00:35:13 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 00:31:50 2011. Exactly...Isn't it interesting that the right-wingers like to bash things that they know nothing about? Maybe they should finally give up on that anti-intellectualism bit... |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 12 00:40:21 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 00:35:13 2011. Who's bashing anything?What's the racial makeup of your zip code and the two neighboring zips btw? Just curious after you posted photos of that rural environment. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 00:51:00 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Wed May 11 23:36:08 2011. heh.Yeah that too. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 00:59:15 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 00:29:06 2011. Socialism is quite different from MarxismNo it isn't. Even Utopian and Fabian variants have too much in common with Marxism to be truly distinct. And FTR, the "European socialism" you idolize but know nothing about is based in Marxism—very deeply. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 12 01:08:27 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 00:59:15 2011. So are kibbutzim? You're an antisemite. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 12 01:27:46 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 23:39:25 2011. fears about minoritiesLove those photos you posted. I'll bet that no more than 2% of your zip code is black. some of which proved to be correct. Crime. Declining schools. High foreclosures. You make it all sound so insignificant. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 02:36:18 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 12 01:27:46 2011. Meh, he just comes here to troll. Must've gotten banned from democraticunderground of something . . . |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 03:51:20 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:36:31 2011. You should be able to provide him with that or are you running low? Judging by your recent posts it would appear so. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 03:52:06 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 12 01:08:27 2011. I heard you were too. 8-) |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 03:54:51 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 12 00:40:21 2011. God you're a nosy fuck. You only use personal info against people. If they don't give you any you make it up. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 12 04:08:46 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 03:52:06 2011. Yeah, when I'm not busy crashing trains, try to put whatever spare time I have into that. :-\ |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 04:20:39 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 02:36:18 2011. ....as oppsoed to you who comes here to troll AND change titles that piss you off. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work Meh, he just comes here to troll. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 04:21:47 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 11 23:51:28 2011. Title just changed back to piss off trollog and make him change it again. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 04:24:29 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work Meh, he just comes here to troll., posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu May 12 04:21:47 2011. Title just changed back to piss off trollog and make him change it again. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu May 12 10:52:38 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 00:51:00 2011. Oh, I thought you said womens Lib was an expression not used anymore since the 1970's and Salaam got a LOL out of that. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 10:58:15 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Train Dude on Wed May 11 23:58:12 2011. Shoulda ran all the way up to the cranium . . . |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 12 11:13:56 2011, in response to Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 20:39:47 2011. having vacations and a place to live has nothing to do with socialism, in fact, it is the very opposite of socialism. Socialism technically is a vacationless workers paradise living in a dorm to support the collective, if you do not pull your weight, you are dead weight.Notice the democrats never address anything the actual working people want(and I don't mean teacher vacation pay bills named emergency "jobs bills") With this said, when I see any rap video I see no socialism, I see the most greedy version of capitalism that no whitey would even go for. Now I obviously did not address what you were saying directly, but I thought that should be pointed out in the subject. But I will say you are correct, even in the so called socialist chants today I see division and me first. I call it so-called because all I see is greedy people who want to take and not give, there appear to be no "true" socialist in the accepted term, they're more of pawns for a great ploy for the political elite. And yes it should be noted there is a lot of tribalism and divisions from every so called rich fake socialist I see speaking on the subject on a daily basis. But I will disagree with you on a single point. Speaking of socialism is the same as coke, pepsi, republican, democrat, new york or los angeles. The term people think of is the marketing, and not the reality of such. Socialism doesn't work for the reason you claim, but this is the fairy tale marketing version to sell to you. the REAL socialism does work, because of the marketing. The Rich elite class who push socialism get to shore up their power by telling these fairy tales and lies to people, therefore having it work every single time. Therefore, Socialism for what it really is unclothed works, but the phoney concept of how it is sold but never done isn't. *** but if you need good examples for your point, I felt the fake version of socialism has only worked(they all failed, but were enacted I should say) in small communial area's, communes, or groups. Even to some of the first settlers in the new world. Hence this demonstrates why ALL socialist movements required a very large percentage of it's population to be cleansed. There is also the aspect that like bugs, people all have to have the same group-think and goals and ideas in order to even be the one. Which subsects into ethnic groups. It is not because of any inherit racism; for anyone with the same ideals, wants, and attitude can be partially accepted into any group. It is more of a cultural issue until people introduce segregation into themselves. But I am all over the board in trying to reply to you with clarifications and additions without editing and thinking this out. Even though, the only people i see pushing the so called "socialism" are all fifthly stinking rich who coincidentally are the ones who give the least back, if any at all. Hence, how they use you as pawns, do as I say not as I do, and no leadership from the top down. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 11:15:01 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu May 12 10:52:38 2011. Oh, I thought you said womens Lib was an expression not used anymore since the 1970's and Salaam got a LOL out of that.The last time the term was used was when Frampton Came Alive. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 12 11:16:13 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by JayMan on Wed May 11 23:39:25 2011. "will rather live in misery themselves than do anything that may even marginally help out blacks and other minorities"He just helped your point with his preposterous and self-loathing racism which made no sense. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 11:18:32 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 12 11:13:56 2011. okay, so now tell us how you stole OBS's password and posted under his handle. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 11:29:13 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 00:59:15 2011. And yet no conservative has successfully explained to me why 5 weeks guaranteed paid vacation, free day care, mandated parental leave, and free universal health care are bad things without falling back on either "it's communism" (which it isn't) or without roundaboutly blaming colored people. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 11:33:05 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 11:29:13 2011. All the things you mentioned help families instead of the crony capitalists and the oligarchy.Conservatives have no use for families. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 11:33:47 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 12 11:13:56 2011. All socialism is the "fake version". Collectivism is unnatutral. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 11:34:42 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 12 11:16:13 2011. He oughta see what "European socialism" is doing to minorities over there before even typing word one. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 11:38:43 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 11:33:47 2011. All socialism is the "fake version". Collectivism is unnatutral.Congratulations on calling the creators of Israel "unnatural". We all know how much you hate the UN resolution that created a secure homeland for the Jewish people. You've said it many times yourself. |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 11:45:02 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by SMAZ on Thu May 12 11:38:43 2011. Congratulations on calling the creators of Israel "unnatural"The ones you might be thinking of (but most likely are not) didn't create Israel. They like to claim that they did, though. Now why don't you turn yourself in to the FBI?  |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't) |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 11:49:09 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work In America (not that it can't), posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 12 11:13:56 2011. Note that when I say socialism I mean the democratic mixed market/socialist system that exists in Canada and much of Europe and the other First World nations, not communism which everyone seems to be mistakenly thinking I'm advocating. Market economies are necessary for economic development, as contrasting Western with Eastern Europe or Japan and South Korea with China and North Korea demonstrate. But the kind of democratic socialism that exists in Western Europe clearly does work.The rest of what you're saying doesn't seem to be very coherent. Of course there is corporate bullshit in politics, of all stripes, that's true no matter where you go, and especially true in the U.S. That said, the biggest determinant of a country's economic success is the composition of its people, i.e., the average IQ of its populace. I find it interesting that you don't answer what I'm saying directly. What's the point of responding if you don't? How can we discuss the topic intelligently? |
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Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 12 11:50:17 2011, in response to Re: Why Socialism Doesn't Work, posted by JayMan on Thu May 12 11:29:13 2011. And yet no conservative has successfully explained to me why 5 weeks guaranteed paid vacation, free day care, mandated parental leave, and free universal health care are bad things without falling back on either "it's communism" (which it isn't) or without roundaboutly blaming colored peopleHave you been reading the news? Most of that is over and done with over there. Gone, finished, kaput. Maybe you should try reality instead of your dreamworld? |
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