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St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 16:58:48 2010 Yesterday, I marched in the St. Pat's For All Parade in Sunnyside, Queens. The parade, now in its 11th year, is an all-inclusive parade honoring St. Patrick as the patron of New York City. St. Pat's For All was organized in response to the Ancient Order Of Hibernians' continuing policy of not permitting gays and lesbians to march in their parade on Fifth Avenue. The AOH parade is the only annual parade in NYC which specifically excludes a group of New Yorkers.Mayor Bloomberg (I-UES), Public Advocate Bill DeBlasio (D-Park Slope), Comptroller John Liu (D-Flushing), and City Council Speaker Christine Quinn (D-Chelsea), all spoke on the stage before the parade. Mayor Bloomberg even went so far as to say "this parade is what every parade in New York should be--open to all New Yorkers, end of story." Now, while I do understand the Catholic theme of the Fifth Avenue parade, and the beliefs and policies of the Catholic Church towards gays, the fact does remain that the AOH parade occurs on a public street paid for by all taxpaying New Yorkers. Would the city allow the Carribbean Day Parade on Eastern Parkway to specifically exclude whites, or the Columbus Day Parade (also on Fifth Ave.), to exclude blacks? Think about it... |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:02:18 2010, in response to St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 16:58:48 2010. I never could understand it either ... after all ...
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:05:43 2010, in response to St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 16:58:48 2010. Oh man. I saw that on ny1 last night, along with some parade in Richmond Hill and it reminded me of the Shamrock Shake thread, and how race/ethnic/sexually orientation minded NYC is compared to the real United States.You people have your own fucking parades, but you won't rest until you keep fucking with the St.Patrick's Day parade. Fucking crazy. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:07:22 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:02:18 2010. Jay-Zee has his own parade if he choses to go. Let the Irish-Catholics have their own as well. No big deal, unless you just like to stir shit up. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:08:08 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:07:22 2010. Of COURSE I do! That's what I do ... heh. But men in dresses shouldn't be so worried who's watching. :) |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:09:49 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:08:08 2010. But the radical elements like Jay-Zee won't quit. They want to march in the St. Patrick's Day parade to ADVOCATE and POLITICIZE when they have their own fucking parade which gets plenty of publicity. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:15:17 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:05:43 2010. Your separation of the "real United States" and New York City, and your repeated use of the F-word in reference to this inclusive parade, is disturbing. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:15:20 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:09:49 2010. Speaking of radical elements, any teabaggers coming? :) |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:16:15 2010, in response to St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 16:58:48 2010. Gays aren't allowed to march in the St. Patrick's Day Parade? Wow! I had no idea. I knew that they excluded gay organizations, but I didn't realize that you had to be straight to march. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:19:03 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:02:18 2010. All kilted up, but still revealing...LOL! |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:19:08 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:16:15 2010. Perhaps they're worried about being out-vogued. :)
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:20:21 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:19:08 2010. That is a distinct possibility. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:22:00 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:19:03 2010. You'd think they'd cover up properly with knee socks. I'm half Irish and half Scots ... talk about your internal conflicts of which skurt to wear. :) |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:22:02 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:16:15 2010. Gays can march in the St. Patrick's Day Parade along 5th Avenue.But not under their own banner. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:23:31 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:22:00 2010. Aren't you "skirting" the issue? LOL! |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:23:39 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:15:17 2010. No. The fact that NYC has to have a separate parade to pander to YOU is disturbing. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:24:20 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:22:02 2010. Don't Ask Don't Tell on Fifth Avenue. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:24:53 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:23:31 2010. I don't think Roddy Piper would like all these comments about men wearing "skirts". |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:26:52 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:23:39 2010. The city doesn't have the St. Pat's For All Parade to "pander" to me, or anyone else. St. Pat's For All is a nonprofit, and gets its parade permit from the city like every other group. The fact that the AOH would rather lose their parade than share it, is what's disturbing. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:28:23 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:22:02 2010. Then that's completely different and I agree with Luch. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 8 17:30:25 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:23:31 2010. When I was a wee lad, got dragged up to East Durham every summer to learn how to strangle a cat (bagpipes), wear a skurt ... the whole nine metres. I like to remind the hibernians every now and then that they dress like girls when they get all flustered over the issue. That's how I learned how to fight properly. Heh. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:32:55 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:24:20 2010. In a few days I suspect hearing on the news a gay and lesbian group demanding to include their group on the parade. I don't know what group but we'll find out soon enough. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:33:02 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:24:20 2010. Maybe they just want the parade to be about St. Patrick's Day without adding a gay agenda. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:37:05 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:26:52 2010. The AOH have their parade and if they don't want to include gays marching, that's up to them. And we'll see what happens if they lose their permit to parade. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Mar 8 17:38:29 2010, in response to St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 16:58:48 2010. The Ancient Order Of Hibernians' does NOT have a "continuing policy of not permitting gays and lesbians to march in their parade..." What they don't permit it for gays and lesbians to march as a group under their own banner, the same way they don't have a heterosexual group marching under their own banner or for that matter any other sexually oriented group. I am sure there are many homosexuals marching in the St. Patrick's Day Parade. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:39:14 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:32:55 2010. Gays and lesbians have been asking to march in the St. Pat's parade down Fifth Avenue for close to two decades now...and get turned down every year. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:40:25 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:37:05 2010. Would you say the same thing if the Al Sharpton wanted to have a parade and specifically exclude whites? Should the city give him a permit? |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:44:22 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:39:14 2010. And it seems that every year Gays and lesbians have been asking to march in the St. Pat's parade down Fifth Avenue. But it always seems they ask at the last minute. Have you heard anything about them asking about inclusion to the next parade? |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:44:53 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:40:25 2010. That's not the same thing. A more similar example would be if Al Sharpton had a parade for a black cause and wanted to exclude an anti-abortion group. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 8 17:45:16 2010, in response to St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 16:58:48 2010. Patron of NYC? Conservative Irish Catholics sure won't like that aspect alone. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:46:03 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:40:25 2010. If he applies for the parade well in advance of the date he wants he should get it. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:48:27 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 8 17:45:16 2010. I'm sure naming St Patrick as a patron of NYC is merely a selling point. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:49:53 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Mar 8 17:38:29 2010. There are several gay and lesbian Irish organizations, such as the Irish Lebian and Gay Organization (ILGO) which wish to display their pride as lesbian and gay Irish people. Irish heritage is not exclusively heterosexual, and the AOH will not let ANY group march in their parade which identifies itself as gay or lesbian, including the NYPD's Gay Officers' Action League (GOAL). The aim of the AOH in prohibiting gays from marching openly and proudly is to create a parade that does not acknowledge their presence in Irish heritage or society as human beings.In other words, gays are permitted to march as long as they remain "invisible". Straight people are accepted de rigeur in the AOH parade, there is no animus against them which needs to be overcome. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:50:26 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:44:22 2010. ILGO asked to march in January. They were turned down. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:51:43 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:48:27 2010. Mayor Bloomberg pointed out later yesterday afternoon that St. Patrick has been the patron of New York City since 1802. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 8 17:54:39 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:48:27 2010. If they really want to be inclusive, they ought to invite the Orange Order to march.BTW, what about the other patron saints of the British Isles? We've got St. Andrew's Day (patron saint of Scotland; actually the apostle Andrew) on November 30th, St. George's Day (patron saint of England) on April 23rd, and St. David's Day (patron saint of Wales) on March 1st (which we missed already). Time for parades on those days, maybe? |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:56:34 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:44:53 2010. But the AOH parade is to celebrate Irish Heritage, but they exclude their fellow Irishmen and women. If Sharpton had a parade for a Black cause, and excluded Black pro-lifers, then the comparison would be apt. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:56:50 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:50:26 2010. They had 2 months to hash it out with AOH and maybe they would have come up with an agreement by now. The publicity might have helped them. But it seems every year it always seeems like a last minute request. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 8 17:57:40 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:56:34 2010. How far back of Irish heritage? "Hibernia" is the old Roman name for the island. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:58:21 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:56:50 2010. It's reported in the media as a last minute request. For at least the last decade, ILGO has applied to march right after New Years' Day. They get turned down within a week of applying, every year. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 17:58:36 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:51:43 2010. I must have missed when he said that. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:59:05 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:26:52 2010. Then drop the fucking St. Pat's part and just have a "Parade for all" if that's how you really feel.You just want to fuck around and be a radical troublemaker and get all excited because politicians have to pander to your ilk and show up at such parades, while ny1 has to cover it like it's a legit parade. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 17:59:32 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:40:25 2010. We're not talking about racism, so stop changing the subject. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 18:00:20 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 8 17:57:40 2010. Gays and lesbians have been around as long as people have, and that means gays have existed all through Irish history, whether closeted or not. I think it matters not "how far back" the AOH goes. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 18:01:30 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:51:43 2010. He wasn't speaking for attribution, but in a private conversation with a few of us at the parade. Somebody asked him when St. Patrick became NYC's patron, and he gave that date. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 18:02:44 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Easy on Mon Mar 8 17:33:02 2010. That's it. And the Jay-Zee's of the world won't just show up to march in the parade. They'll do stupid shit, like waving a rainbow flag with a shamrock on it. Or make up stupid political banners. They will go to be disruptive and political, not because they genuinely want to be part of a St. Patrick's Day parade.Jay-Zee and parade's like this are what is wrong with NYC. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 8 18:04:20 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 18:00:20 2010. It does highlight divergent heritages though. Irish society is not a singular continuum. While LGBTs have been in all permutations, this makes the argument about the particular heritages stand out now. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 18:05:06 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 17:49:53 2010. You and your kind are on the same level as the people who go to the Israeli Day parade and yell all kinds of anti-Semitic shit at parade goers. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 8 18:06:04 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 8 18:01:30 2010. you people have your own parade. leave the St. Patrick's Day parade alone. |
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Re: St. Pat's For All Parade |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 8 18:06:40 2010, in response to Re: St. Pat's For All Parade, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 8 17:54:39 2010. Saints Andrew, George and David are all not Irish nor assoicated with Ireland. Patrick wasn't Irish but from Franch. But he lived and worked as a priest and missionary in Ireland.Maybe if the Orange Order was invited to this year's parade there might be some conflict with the Northern Irish and the Free Irish from the rest of the country. I don't think the conflicts over there have really died down completely. |
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