Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA? (389711) | |
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 07:31:16 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 06:49:03 2008. I don't care if it's GOP courts or not, and why do you even mention that? I don;t give a rats ass if it's Dems or Repubs saying this should be.And "religious" beliefs....I don't care if it's religious beliefs or not, I think it's WRONG for a doctor to be forced to perform a procedure that he finds to be morally wrong, or against his religious beliefs. That is even more wrong than if there was a law outlawing abortion all together. Both wrong, but making a law to make someone do something they find wrong is reprehensible. I have no problem with abortions being legal, I feel that the person should decide. However, I find it VERY wrong if someone is forced to do something they find wrong. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 07:31:51 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 06:50:00 2008. I have no idea if it's done or not, what does that have to do with this? I said I find it reprehensible. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 07:33:20 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 06:53:36 2008. "Funding abortions" and making a "doctor perform an abortion against their will" are two TOTALLY different things. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 07:34:50 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 06:56:34 2008. She can go to a non catholic hospital and have an abortion. |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Dec 5 08:52:50 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 06:30:49 2008. My point is that IMO you won't be able to force doctors to do anything against their conscience(s) and you can't find any precedent for them doing so, or anyone forcing them to do so, either. I'm not gonna debate hypothetical instances.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Dec 5 08:58:42 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Fred G on Fri Dec 5 08:52:50 2008. I'm using the royal "you".your pal, Fred |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 09:04:27 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 4 21:26:26 2008. The govermnent has ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to make a doctor that doesn't believe in abortions to force them to do them, NOR does it have the right to make Catholic hospitals FORCED to do that.Agreed. I looked at the language in the bill and see nothing that would suggest such a compulsion. It says governments can't keep a woman from having an abortion, and that's all. But if the sponsors want to get the bill passed they probably should make that explicit. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 09:06:51 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 07:34:50 2008. She can go to a non catholic hospital and have an abortion.Not in countries where church lobbying has made all abortions illegal. (Note, in those countries there are also lots of people who are not regular churchgoers who are also opposed to abortion - I don't claim the church has singlehandedly blocked all abortions in any country.) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 5 10:52:11 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 06:28:49 2008. No I don't you lying trolling shithead. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 5 10:55:06 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 06:51:49 2008. It was obvious you were incorrectly referring to me. Hence why I called you an asshat who trolls and lies. And that's the truth. |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 11:56:29 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 07:34:50 2008. However...those Catholic hospitals also receive federal money. Using the precedent set in Rumsfeld v. FAIR, those hospitals would have their backs up against the wall. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 12:37:13 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 11:56:29 2008. However...those Catholic hospitals also receive federal money. Using the precedent set in Rumsfeld v. FAIR, those hospitals would have their backs up against the wall.Why is this a precedent? The case you cite is based on a law that specifically denies federal aid to those who bar military recruiters. There is nothing in FOCA that denies federal aid to those that don't do abortions. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 5 14:48:05 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 4 21:26:26 2008. The govermnent has ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to make a doctor that doesn't believe in abortions to force them to do them,..Let's make the situation a little more complicated. Suppose there is a therapeutic reason for the abortion, e.g. the woman's life is in danger or risks severe permanent damage, etc. What then? What's the obligation of the physician/hospital? Should they be obligated to inform the woman of these options and refer them to physicians/hospitals that do perform abortions? What is the government's liability, if it knowingly licenses physicians/hospitals that will not inform patients of life saving procedures because of "religious beliefs?" |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 15:17:40 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 5 10:52:11 2008. ...and you don't curse, uh huh. HYPOCRITE |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 15:21:29 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 5 10:55:06 2008. No I was refering to ANYONE who wears their religion "on their sleeve" Do you do that? You must or you wouldn't be so bent out of shape. Sounds like an admission if I ever heard one. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 15:50:33 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 15:17:40 2008. Of course you won't address this. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 16:15:20 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Dec 5 00:02:29 2008. THe notion of "perpetual virginity" was transferred to Mary from the Roman goddess Diana (and her Greek equivalent Artemis). Also, the "trinity" notion comes from such religions: Diana is in a trinity with Egeria (a water nymph) and Virbius (god of the woodlands), for example. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 16:22:53 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Dec 5 00:02:29 2008. "Perpetual virginity" is NONSENSE and they know it...It was just a scheme hatched by "the church" to keep people from the truth.. Many people say the same thing about the resurrection and divinity of Jesus. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 16:38:56 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 16:22:53 2008. There's a difference. The former is not in the Bible while the latter is. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 21:19:30 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 09:06:51 2008. I don't care about other countries, I only care about this one. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 21:20:13 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 11:56:29 2008. So what if there is federal money. Doesn't mean they have to do every procedure. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 21:25:40 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 5 14:48:05 2008. Every doctor doesn't have to know how to do, or have to do every procedure know to medicine. The government has NO right to tell a doctor he HAS to perform a surgury. And "informing" a patient of what options are available, and performing all those options are two different things. Who said anything about doctors/hospitals not "informing patients of life saving procedures because of religious/moral beliefs"? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 22:23:34 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 21:25:40 2008. Who said anything about doctors/hospitals not "informing patients of life saving procedures because of religious/moral beliefs"?If a woman had a life-threatening pregnancy and an abortion was one way of dealing with the threat to her life, I wouldn't expect the staff at a Catholic hospital to inform the woman of the abortion option. Would you? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 22:24:11 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 5 06:49:03 2008. What's a "GOP Court"? We have courts established by political parties now? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 22:24:57 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 21:19:30 2008. I don't care about other countries, I only care about this one.Well fine, but then your response to Adam is irrelevant bcause he never said he was referring to the US. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 22:33:48 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 22:24:57 2008. What's the title of this thread? Vatican and Obama, no? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 22:35:57 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 5 22:23:34 2008. There's a difference between life threatening pregnancy and other abortions. Life threatening pregnancy is a different case and a more extreme example. And that is still saving a life, so I can certainly see it. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 22:36:34 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 22:24:11 2008. I have no idea what he said that either. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 22:38:08 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 5 22:35:57 2008. Now remember, I am pro-choice (even though I find it wrong). |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 6 01:28:08 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by BMTLines on Fri Dec 5 05:03:15 2008. Got you... |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 6 01:30:09 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 4 08:39:04 2008. Bite Me...Hows That for "the end"...? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Dec 6 04:14:22 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 15:50:33 2008. Point proven, once again. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Dec 6 04:15:49 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Dec 5 15:21:29 2008. Another point you won't address, oh nutless wonder. TYPICAL |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Dec 6 06:23:58 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by BMTLines on Fri Dec 5 05:03:15 2008. heh...everyone knows a blow job is not sex, according to Bill Clinton. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Dec 6 06:24:41 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 6 01:30:09 2008. rotflmao |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 4 18:59:09 2009, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008. Looks like this hit the news again. The picture here, in the Washington Poast, is a bit rosier, but the thorns are still visible.
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