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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Fri May 4 19:27:30 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 14:30:14 2007. Nope, you can't blame that mental illness on religion. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 19:29:24 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 19:26:56 2007. Why couldn't she eat her vegetarian diet and let you eat what you wanted?I know a couple like that. The wife won't eat meat or chicken; the husband likes steak. They respect each others' choices. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 19:29:59 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 19:29:24 2007. Jack Sprat would eat no fat; his wife would eat no lean . . . |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 19:30:01 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:13:43 2007. And on an innocent baby no less. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Fri May 4 20:00:48 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:18:44 2007. You got that right. Vegetarianism and veganism in particular are SERIOUS MENTAL DISORDERS. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 20:32:05 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:53:25 2007. You can thrive on it but you have to really plan carefully. You have to balance your protein sources (combining beans, corn and rice, for example) to make sure you get all the essential amino acids. You need a source of Omega-3 mono and polyunsaturated fats (olive oil, peanut oil) and a variety of grains, fruits and vegetables, paying close attention to things like calcium and Vitamin D (calcium sources like broccolli and getting 20 minutes of sun exposure each day to make vitamin D).I do not recommend this for infants and children. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 20:32:52 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 19:29:59 2007. 8-) |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri May 4 21:39:23 2007, in response to Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:23:43 2007. Sounds just like the same situation on an episode of 'House Md' Guess they don't watch that show.. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 04:44:27 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by BIE on Fri May 4 20:00:48 2007. No, vegetarianism is not. Veganism is the extreme one.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 04:51:19 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 04:54:08 2007. I don't see anything more than neglect in reading about the case. In fact I'd say the defendants are neglecting themselves as well. Further I'd say the defendants could be on the retarded side of the scale, if not simply slow. They don't test you for a parent's license, well, not yet anyway.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 04:56:15 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:16:04 2007. Dammit, Dick Wolf isn't returning his calls...your pal, Fred |
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Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 05:04:32 2007, in response to Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:23:43 2007. Although not as compressed, time-wise, knowing what we know now, isn't it criminally negligent to allow a child to become 2 or 3 times his normal body mass and sentence him to major health issues later in life? Diabetes is just one problem I can think of but there are more. Do you think that this case with the Vegans will shed light on this problem we have in our country? Or do you think it's only Vegan whack jobs who are doing harm? I'd say allowing your kid to become obese is negligent parenting, too. Do we need to take another look at the idea that maybe some people shouldn't be parents? Should there be a license or certification?your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 05:59:24 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 19:29:24 2007. Why couldn't she eat her vegetarian diet and let you eat what you wanted?The "now" was a typo. It was supposed to be, "that's NOT why we broke up". There were other reasons we broke up, not the food thing. I accepted her eating habits, and she never tried to push her ideas on me either. I was just saying that it was odd sometimes. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:01:33 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 04:44:27 2007. Yes, I agree with that. Vegetarianism is okay, so long as you get your proper nutrition. The only thing is though that vegetarians seem way too overly skinny. I find that to be worse than overweight people sometimes. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:02:58 2007, in response to Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 05:04:32 2007. Not the same as starving your baby to death. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 06:33:26 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:02:58 2007. Still being a negligent parent.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 06:34:55 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 06:33:26 2007. Still being a negligent parent and still killing your kid, although more slowly. This has nothing to do with Vegan/Meateater thing.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:59:50 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 06:34:55 2007. Allowing your kid to eat junk food may be irresponsible, but it's not even close to starving your kid to death. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 07:05:06 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:59:50 2007. I mean allowing your kid to become obese, not simply eating junk food.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 07:20:50 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 07:05:06 2007. Yes, very irresponsible, but not the same as starving your kid to death. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 07:45:58 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 07:20:50 2007. I think it's negligent, not merely irresponsible, to allow a child to become obese and subject to diseases like diabetes and heart ailments. I agree that starving a child is worse in the short term, but know that negligence is negligence.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 10:10:39 2007, in response to Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 05:04:32 2007. Should there be a license or certification?For that matter why not take kids away at birth and turn them over to a government concentration camp to raise them. Kids will be indoctrinated in political correctness and proper nutrition. Yes I am being sarcastic but sometimes I feel that is where all this control is ultimately heading.... |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 10:22:17 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 10:10:39 2007. I agree with your last statement, to be sure. Sometimes I wonder...your pal, Fred |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 11:55:36 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 07:45:58 2007. I don't even see them as remotely comparable. Kids can and do feed themselves. Babies rely on their caregivers. Overeating is a bad behavior and there is often a genetic component. And being overweight makes all of those bad things that you have listed more likely, but not a certainty. Similarly being thin doesn't guarantee that you won't suffer from those ailments. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 12:49:07 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 19:26:56 2007. Vegetarianism is totally different than veganism, and it's origins are based in the desire to improve health as nutritional sciences developed in the 19th century. It had nothing to do with any view that eating animals is "cruel". Veganism should be classified as an eating disorder. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 12:51:51 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 11:55:36 2007. My point is parental negligence, not "this is worse than that". Of course starving an infant is worse. That's beside the point. Kids feed themselves under parental guidance and if the parents are negligent, the kids will show it.As for someone being 2 or 3 times the normal body mass, I'd say it's pretty much a given that it's extremely unhealthy. your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 12:53:43 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by BIE on Fri May 4 20:00:48 2007. NO! Vegetarianism is a legitimate alternative diet, no different than the Scarsdale Diet or the Atkins diet. The only difference is that the latter two are designed for weight loss, not overall health. Vegetarianism eschews animal meat because of the ill effects a diet heavy in it creates. It was never meant to be an alternative for those who think eating meat is "cruel". Oddly enough, Hitler was a vegetarian. He was certainly cruel to man and beast alike. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 12:54:52 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:01:33 2007. LOL not the ones I know! Perhaps beer has something to do with it?your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 12:56:17 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:01:33 2007. Vegetarians are usually people who carefully monitor what they eat, so they probably don't indulge in large amounts of the junk food like the rest of us do, even if no meat is involved. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 12:57:44 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 04:56:15 2007. He's probably out getting Sam Watterson's wheelchair fixed. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 13:25:39 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 12:57:44 2007. Ohhhh....damn, that's cold!but I had to wipe a little coffee up... your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat May 5 14:25:44 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 06:01:33 2007. Humans were not evolved as herbivores, or we'd have teeth like horses and cows. We evolved as omnivores, so we eat both meat and vegetables.If you are a Vegetarian, you are flying in the face of an established fact. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Sat May 5 14:41:40 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat May 5 14:25:44 2007. YES!!! |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 15:12:40 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat May 5 14:25:44 2007. Correct for now, but we're still evolving. Who's to say where we're headed? Also, much of our current diet (high in sugars, salts, red meat, etc.) does also not fit our current evolutionary state. That's why we have so many obese people and diet related health problems. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat May 5 16:15:10 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 15:12:40 2007. Evolution is a process that takes hundreds of centuries to occur. It's not an overnight happening.At one time, fat people were an indication of being well off, not a problem. Look at the "Captains of Industry" in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries - all very large (obese today) men. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 16:31:09 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat May 5 16:15:10 2007. The meaning of obesity has radically changed in the past 100+ years. You're right, back then fatness was considered a sign of success, that you could afford all the food you wanted. Today, the more affluent among us are generally thinner than the poor, because they can afford to eat healthy, wheras the poor must eat the cheaper, less healthy foods available. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat May 5 16:35:56 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 10:22:17 2007. My son is a Vegetarian. He will eat fish, like salmon. Also, not being a Vegan , he eats eggs and drinks milk. So it's not too bad.His wife is the same , but she will eat chicken. Her brother is a Vegan, and he almost destroyed my kitchen last Thanksgiving making all of his "stuff". And boy does he want to show you how good it is. Try this, try that.... |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Sat May 5 16:37:08 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 16:31:09 2007. It isn't as much economic as it is awareness and yes, LAZINESS. I guarantee you that it can be cheaper to purchase the foods for a healthy diet if you have the knowledge and recipes and are willing to cook healthy foods. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 16:39:45 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by BIE on Sat May 5 16:37:08 2007. Most poor do not have access to such information, and their daily lives probably drive them into seeking comfort with food that pleases them but is not healthy. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Sat May 5 16:52:25 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 16:39:45 2007. True. It is too bad that this information isn't utilized by more of the poor. The quintessential comfort food is Macaroni and Cheese. (a pound of Velveeta, 7 ozs. of Sharp Cheddar, a quarter pound of butter, an ounce of grated parmesan and a pound and a half of drained and cooked macaroni in a large casserole dish heated in a preheated 350 Deg. oven for 25 minutes.) My arteries are HARDENING just thinking about it. I make it when I have to feed large groups. Don't EVEN get me going on my Hanukkah Kugel. Small amounts of lean meat together with vegetables are a far better choice for routine eating. Cheaper, too. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat May 5 16:57:10 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by BIE on Sat May 5 16:52:25 2007. Don't EVEN get me going on my Hanukkah Kugel. Small amounts of lean meat together with vegetables are a far better choice for routine eating. Cheaper, too..A lot, not all of Jewish foods are fattening. I remember my overweight grandmother, saying, eat, eat, you are so skinny, Chuckie. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Sat May 5 17:01:36 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat May 5 16:57:10 2007. Basically take one of EVERYTHING in the grocer's dairy case and mix it with cooked and drained noodles and add raisins if you want a dessert Kugel and put it in the UNIVERSAL preheated 350deg. oven for 25 min. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 5 17:03:59 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 04:51:19 2007. I don't see anything more than neglectThe jury disagrees there. They found that the two parents weren't idiotic or incompetent enough to be regarded as merely neglectful, and saw malice in their practice regarding the newborn. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 5 17:06:18 2007, in response to Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 05:04:32 2007. Does the original subject trouble you that much?For the record, I'd classify it as gross negligence, but if you want to up your scenario to attempted murder, I won't disagree with you. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 18:21:09 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by TransitChuckG on Sat May 5 16:35:56 2007. OTOH I'm a carnivore - will only eat veggies if they are shoved down my throat or drowning in butter and salt. But give me a juicy prime rib and I will eat it RARE with no meat sauces, salt or spices of any kind - just the meat!!! |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat May 5 19:03:39 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 18:21:09 2007. I can't eat raw meat. It has to be at least medium cooked. I prefer well done.I am being treated to a steak tomorrow for dinner. the guys from my department at WAL*MART are taking me out. When i retired, it snowed ,then others things came up, so finally we are going out. |
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Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat May 5 21:57:59 2007, in response to Re: Isn't Letting Your Kid Get Obese The Same Kind Of Negligence? (was Vegan couple ), posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 5 17:06:18 2007. I call it negligence in both scenarios, which was my point all along.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by JPC on Sat May 5 22:26:00 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 20:32:05 2007. Isn't vitamin B12 the biggie? |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Sat May 5 22:32:13 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 12:53:43 2007. hitler used to point out that "elephants are mighty animals that cannot stomach meat." |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 5 22:32:29 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat May 5 14:25:44 2007. I am far from being a vegetarian.... |
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