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| Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days (731590) | |
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| (733159) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 16:13:25 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 15:19:39 2011. That's because the '66 was built with heavier steel than the Mustang II was. Cars of the '60s were not designed to be powered by puny little I-6 engines. They were designed to carry the big V-8 brutes. On the other hand, the Mustang II was designed to carry a 4 or 6 cylinder engine. Only a hue and cry by car nuts and magazines compelled Ford to shoehorn the 302 V-8 under the hood. And an emasculated engine it was - it produced well over 300 hp for the '72 Mustang but by '76, it was about 1/3 of that. |
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| (733161) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 10 16:18:36 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 11:40:22 2011. Look up "fiero" in an english-spanish translator ... truth in advertising! :) |
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| (733162) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:21:01 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:01:55 2011. Oh, so it's the picture. Yes, it's basically an "Omni 024" coupe turned into something with a bit of power (175 horsepower in a car weighing less than 2500 lbs). The Shelby GLHS is a collector's item; only 1,000 were built. |
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| (733164) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:24:23 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 16:13:25 2011. Thanks for the info....but to make my point....not all 60s cars were good and not all 70s cars were bad...Yes, the 60s housed the muscle cars....but it's overrated...Yes they were super fast, but cars of the 70s..not all...could easily be tweaked to perform once bought. They only had to be sold with emissions equipment in place.....You could take it home, remove it...easily tweak timing, change heads, install dual exhaust and you were working with basically the same engines as the 60s cars..Today's cars don't allow for that....by design and law as they have to be tested periodically..but regardless of how cars perform today, other than the Challenger,Camaro and Mustang, you can have them..They are plastic drones with no character.......I don't care how fast they are....They are now appliances....and started that in the 80s.....while the last era of machines that cars always were existed in the 70s...for the last time.... |
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| (733165) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:26:23 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 10 16:18:36 2011. Truth in advertising??? I assume you know that the entire GTO campaign of the 60s--where it beat the Ferrari-was a lie......not the Shelby claim of the same, but the GTO was all bunk on what they claimed it did.....Today, those peole would be sued and jailed for false claims....but it's looked upon fondly as the "Good Ole Days"........(right--say whatever it takes to sell the car) |
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| (733166) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:27:38 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:21:01 2011. OK---I'll agree....just don't sneeze in it or you'll blow out the windows and dent the fender....lol |
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| (733167) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:27:42 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 16:13:25 2011. 1972? The 302 was not rated at 300 horses for that year. The 302 also was only available with a 2-barrel carburetor. The 351 Cleveland was the most powerful engine for that year, but quite derated. |
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| (733168) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:30:00 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:26:23 2011. I assume you know that the entire GTO campaign of the 60s--where it beat the Ferrari-was a lieproff? |
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| (733169) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:31:31 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:30:00 2011. Go on youtube and look it up....There are interviews with Jim Wangers...the man who was behind it all....bad toupe included....He laughs about it with great memory.....it sorta ticked me off frankly... |
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| (733170) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:32:15 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:24:23 2011. regardless of how cars perform today, other than the Challenger, Camaro and Mustang, you can have them..They are plastic drones with no characterThere are modern muscle cars other than the Challenger, Camaro and Mustang? (The Corvette ZO6 and Dodge Viper GTS aren't in consideration here.) |
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| (733171) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:34:41 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:31:31 2011. Who? |
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| (733173) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:35:50 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:32:15 2011. No--personal taste of mine---The Vette is ugly without hidden headlights and the Viper is great, but I liked the original body style better.. |
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| (733175) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:38:09 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:34:41 2011. Jim Wangers is the Godfather of the GTO--on an advertising level--John Delorean designed it....but the race with the Ferrari happened but under false pretenses....The actual engine in the GTO was a 421 but that's not what Pontiac told everyone......The competition engine they told Ferrari the GTO had was smaller....Go on youtube and search JIM WANGERS GTO RINGER |
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| (733189) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 10 16:53:17 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 16:30:00 2011. Heh. Yep ... Enzo made a point of that repeatedly, even back then. :) |
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| (733190) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 10 16:54:13 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:26:23 2011. Fiero: fire.(or to quote from the movie, "The In-Laws" ... "there are FLAMES ... on my car.) |
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| (733196) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 10 17:05:51 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 15:15:41 2011. I've had many Cougars and T Birds....78,79(2), 86, 88....loved all of them...My grandmother had a 72 Montego, 351C--great car...My Uncle had a brand new 74 Cougar....that started my love of them......It still smelled new with 98k on it when he sold it...Nice; I have a '69 Thunderbird (bad frame, unfortunately). I had a friend with a '79 convertible (among others); note the license plate: 
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| (733201) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 17:10:24 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:24:23 2011. "You could take it home, remove it...easily tweak timing, change heads, install dual exhaust and you were working with basically the same engines as the 60s cars"And you also completely voided the car's warranty. Plus, even if you do all that, you're still left with a '70s car body and chassis that is much heavier and overstyled than the cars of the '60s were. Take my '75 Grand Prix with the 400 inch engine. Stock, it made 180 hp and 320 lb-ft of torque. The car weighed 4,144 pounds. Lets say you do everything to the engine that you mention above and get the hp level to 275-300, which is about where the 400 inch engines were in '69 through '72, before the GP got big and fat. You're still stuck with a '75 Grand Prix with its bloated body and chassis that will never handle or perform as well as a '69 - '72 model would. Now, if you're talking about doing all that to the engine and then pulling out of the car to put it in another car, that's a whole other ballgame. |
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| (733209) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 10 17:23:31 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 17:10:24 2011. The Grand Prix! My very first car was a 1970 Grand Prix Model "J", with the 400...(the "automatic stick" read P/R/N/D/S/L, and we used to joke that the 's' stood for 'super'...LOL!) I LOVED that car! It was a rocket. Of course, in the winter, it took about 10-15 minutes of driving before the heat started working, and it was very cranky if you tried to start it in single-digit temps, but in good weather, what a car!I cried for a week when a drunken driver knocked it from where it was parked, up over the sidewalk, and into a warehouse wall. The souse was driving a '60s Buick Electra 225. Made my beautiful car into a piece of modern sculpture. I was in the 7-11 across the street getting a Slurpee. I had been out of the car all of three minutes when it happened. Never owned anything like her again. :( |
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| (733211) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 17:27:11 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 16:35:50 2011. That's a relief. I was afraid that you'd mention the BMW M3 V8 (414 horses at a screaming 8100 revs), Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG (451 horses), Audi RS4 (420 hp), or any of those other foreign cars . . . |
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| (733217) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 17:33:21 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 10 17:05:51 2011. Very nice--I also had a 78 T Bird-Diamond Jubilee Edition--creme with a copper half roof....great car---much like the 79 in your pic. |
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| (733218) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 17:34:59 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 17:10:24 2011. Well--we disagree on styling--yes, the 60s cars were leaner, but I loved the tanks of the 70s....hp was second over stlying for me... |
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| (733220) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 17:36:20 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 10 17:27:11 2011. Oh God no--hate em... |
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| (733245) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 18:10:09 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 10 17:23:31 2011. Yep...the GP was my first car, bought her with 59K on the clock in September of 1981. It was a Model J as well, but by '75, Pontiac stopped putting the "Model J" moniker outside the car, as two new trim levels, SJ and LJ were available and only those trim levels got exterior badges.My GP had a very similar interior to the Firebirds of the mid-'70s. The front buckets were exactly the same as in the Firebird and the dashboard was similar as well. The GP had an awesome driving position. Like yours, it was very cranky on cold mornings and took forever to warm up. I had it from September 1981 until April 1985, when the repairs started to spiral out of control. I went through two transmissions and a bunch of alternators. It sat in my backyard until 1989, when I sold it for $250 to another GP nut in my neighborhood. My favorite GP's are the '69 through '72 models. Two other GP's stand out in my mind, though. My friend had a stunnng '67 GP - midnight blue, buckets, floor shifter, mag wheels with the "PMD" caps, the works. And then the damn fool got into an accident and totalled it. I never forgot that car. Another friend bought a red '74 Model J when we were high school seniors in 1982. The car had a 455 but it was on its last legs, having been abused for years by its prior owner. He tuned it up and it lasted for a few months but it eventually seized. He bought a 4.9 liter turbo engine from a wrecked '80 Trans Am and installed it in the GP. It looked weird in the bay - the engine was 301 inches in bay designed for a 455. But it was fast as hell. The car met its demise a year later when it lost a wheel on the Interboro. |
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| (733247) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 10 18:14:57 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by MickeyG on Thu Feb 10 17:34:59 2011. Some of the '70s cars were pretty nice, even after the emissions regs, oil embargo and insurance industry got through with them. But as far as performance went, they were all show, no go. The '74 GTO was a travesty, the '75 and later Chargers were basket cases and the 360 Plymouth Road Runners of the late '70s (gussied up Volares) were jokes. |
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| (2015049) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 03:15:22 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 10:46:34 2011. Why would anyone bother restoring a '77 Town Car?If you have to ask, then you simply will never understand. |
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| (2015059) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Apr 30 11:29:24 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:05:06 2011. It was 1971 Pontiac LeMans |
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| (2015060) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 11:33:41 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Apr 30 11:29:24 2025. "For a typical 1971 LeMans with a 350 V8 and automatic transmission, expect around 8.5 seconds"I have twice that acceleration |
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| (2015062) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Apr 30 11:53:56 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 11:33:41 2025. I had a ‘72 LeMans back in the summer of 1996. Compared to the VWs I had up to that time it could haul ass. |
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| (2015063) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Apr 30 12:18:24 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 8 12:29:23 2011. I have 5 cars over 30. All of them are suitable for daily driving. |
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| (2015076) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 14:10:30 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 03:15:22 2025. Looks good to me. If one has the money, a restomod might be the way to go. |
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| (2015077) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 14:17:56 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 14:10:30 2025. Weights about 5000 pounds with the driver. Not sure if that's not including all of the fluids or not.Weren't you one of the people worrying about heavy cars destroying our roads? This thing weighs more than a Model 3. |
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| (2015078) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 14:31:52 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 14:17:56 2025. Something the size of a Model 3 is not supposed to weigh over 4,000 lbs. Let's not go there. |
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| (2015079) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 14:33:05 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 14:17:56 2025. Only if the driver is well over 300 lbs would a Town Car sedan weigh in the 5K range. |
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| (2015083) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 16:08:29 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 14:33:05 2025. Gemini said it weights 4800 pounds. I assume the average person residing in America (including and especially illegals) would top it above 5k. |
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| (2015094) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 17:06:31 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 16:08:29 2025. Well, the type of illegal that would go for a car like that would most likely be the MS-13 or TdA. |
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| (2015101) | |
Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Apr 30 22:10:38 2025, in response to Re: The (Not So Good?) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 30 17:06:31 2025. rofl. only if you can put tiny wheels on it. |
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