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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 27 01:06:42 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 27 00:45:02 2006. they began somewhereand sometime |
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Posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 01:47:33 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 26 19:12:06 2006. The Fourth of July -- National Interest Presidents Day -- Respect for what has become all our past Chief Executives. Memorial Day -- Respect for those who upheld and died for our liberties. Labor Day -- Honoring WORKERS. Not welfare queens, not chiselers. Union or Non-Union. New Years Day -- Internationally recognized celebration of the New Year. Oh Bullshit. International Day to Recover From Hangovers. Veterans Day -- Respect for the living soldiers who upheld our liberties. Thanksgiving -- Day of reflection upon our fortune. Religious festivals are not BS amongst the religions that celebrate them, but should be nonentities to a nation with no established religion. Unfortunately, keeping businesses open on holidays like Christmas or Good Friday would bring commerce to a screeching halt as a large percentage of the workforce just won't make it in. So some concession has to be made. And besides, who doesn't like an extra day off? Kwanzaa, Valentine's Day, Halloween, Mother's Day and Father's Day are all piles of dreck holidays meant to extort money from us or contrived to forcibly celebrate something that should be celebrated without the need for a specific day to concentrate on it to the exclusion of all other days. Not only that, but they exclude large segments of society that cannot celebrate them due to reasons largely beyond their control. Did you ever feel like shit on Valentine's Day because you didn't have a significant other? What about Father's Day after your drunken Dad walked out on your family? Again, end of rant. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 01:51:03 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 01:47:33 2006. New Year's Day is debatable. It is pretty much a non-event in my family. However, we celebrate a New Year in Saptember or early October with much greater "fanfare."In my experiences, most things don't close on Good Friday. |
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Posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 02:02:32 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 26 23:11:11 2006. Kwanzaa was invented and contrived to celebrate SOMETHING during the month of December that wasn't as whitebread as Christmas or ::horrors:: as Jewish as Hanukkah by malcontents who didn't want to be seen celebrating holidays that they deemed "weren't theirs" due to tortured arguments about the racial meanings behind those holidays. So they adopted the Hanukkah menorah to light candles over a period of days, and adopted the Christmas tenets that amount to good will toward your fellow man, and bingo! They have a "holiday" they can call their own and that they can celebrate that isn't Christmas or Hanukkah, and that they can browbeat people into accepting as a legitimate "third holiday" of the season, lest they be considered racist. Ingenious. |
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Posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 02:11:43 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 01:51:03 2006. September is so much more natural a time to celebrate New Year's Day. It's the start of a new academic year. It's near the Autumnal Equinox. The weather is mild the world over. It's at the end of what amounts to a two-month "weekend" called Summer in the Northern Hemisphere. Now back to work with gusto! It's at the start of the harvest season, which marks the near-end of the growing season. It approximates the Jewish New Year. I'd love to lobby for September 1 (or Labor Day, for that matter, even though it is not on the first of the month) to be New Years Day. As for things being closed on Good Friday, many financial offices such as banks and stock brokerages get the day off, and many Union entities get the day off as well. More than enough people to cause headaches to the day's economy. |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Dec 27 02:26:40 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 26 19:12:06 2006. Freedom Day. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 02:42:35 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 02:11:43 2006. Being from DC, my primary barometer is what the federal government does. The Federal Government is open on Good Friday. Additionally, practically all shops and businesses are open, too. Sure, some people take off, but it isn't like Christmas or Thanksgiving where practically everything is closed. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Dec 27 02:44:29 2006, in response to Kwanzaa begins today, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Dec 26 03:15:26 2006. I don't celebrate Kwanzaa but I have respect for those who do, so I guess I'm going to say Happy Kwanzaa too. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 02:53:46 2006, in response to Kwanzaa begins today, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Dec 26 03:15:26 2006. The phrase "first fruits" was lifted from a Hebrew holy day (annual Sabbath) which occurs on the third day after Passover.Ron Karenga is a Marxist, and there are collectivist sentiments expressed in the principles of the holiday. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 27 03:50:07 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 02:53:46 2006. i am not with ronseen him lectue in long beach college etc.. thats about it |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 27 05:16:48 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 02:02:32 2006. Since this is You..[and I love your posts],we'll continue.It not about Christmas..nor that other holiday.. Its about PEOPLE. Its about family...strenghtening ties to the people that came before us..and what that represents TO US. It about NATURE..ART...LIFE..LOVE...JOY..PAIN and remebering your place in Gods plan. Its not meant to take away..but to build..make stronger the FAMILY FOUNDATION. Those who say it was created by some disgrunted person have that right..but I don't care one wit. You see..I stand by these little things on a daily..treating my family and friends with respect that they deserve..for being my FRIENDS and companions.Remembering the past..looking forward to the future. Simple. Thats my take on it. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 09:37:16 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 02:02:32 2006. I always thought of Kwannza as a cross between Channakah and Christmas. There's no mistaking the candle thing as influenced by the Menorah, and there's no mistaking the timing, a day after Christmas.... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Dec 27 09:44:55 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 27 00:45:02 2006. And Kwanzaa has a tradition now, too. "Establishment" simply means doing it long enough so people get used to seeing it every year.By that measure, Kwanzaa already qualifies. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 09:54:35 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 26 23:17:07 2006. It may be "made up"..but then so are ALL SO CALLED HOLIDAYS..Every holiday was "made up" at some point, religious or non-religious. Kwanzaa just happens to be a new one, that's the only difference. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Dec 27 10:01:33 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 01:47:33 2006. You have to wait for Valentine's Day to feel bad about not having a date? How about every Saturday night?21 years ago, I spent the whole academic year without a date (the campus was full of beautiful and superficial women who liked jocks and frat boys and rich guys). I got some dinner by myself at the school barfeteria because I couldn't afford anything other than the school meal plan, then walked back to the graduate dorm. It was satyurday, and as I walked in a dozen couples walked out into the evening - every girl in the place is in a tiny dress she's "almost wearing " and the guys are smiling confidently, because they are going to "get lucky" tonight. I remember sometime later going to a friend's wedding. Every couple on the wedding was either "Luke and Laura" (from General Hospital ) or Richard Gere and Kim Cattrall or (you pick your favorite). Nobody was more than a size seven and the average bra size was 36. My friend thoughtfully seated me at the singles table. While that was a good thought on his part, he could not have foreseen that the girls at the singles table would bolt at the first opportunity they got and stay as far away from me as possible, lest I waste their valuable time. I spent 90% of dinner sitting by myself because the single ladies were hunting the jocks or the brain surgeons they thought were hiding at some other table. I admit it was hard for me not to get paranoid. I was happy for my friend, of course, but when I left the wedding, frankly, I was pissed. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:25:04 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 01:47:33 2006. Thanksgiving -- Day of reflection upon our fortune.Thanksgiving began as a religious holiday. Unfortunately, keeping businesses open on holidays like Christmas or Good Friday would bring commerce to a screeching halt as a large percentage of the workforce just won't make it in. Good Friday? Good Friday is not even a required church day. And it's not even an ounce commercialized, like Christmas has been. Good Friday is strictly a religious day, but without any fanfare. It's not a required church day, and while services are said, mass is not performed in Catholic Churches. And when do things close on Good Friday? Valentine's Day, Halloween, Mother's Day and Father's Day are all piles of dreck holidays meant to extort money from us or contrived to forcibly celebrate something that should be celebrated without the need for a specific day Those are all "Hallmark" holidays. The church has even totally disassociated itself from St Valentine's day. It began too as a religious day, but it is now only 100% secular. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:26:52 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 02:11:43 2006. September is so much more natural a time to celebrate New Year's Day.Why? It's a totally secular day. The end of one year, and the start of the next. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:27:29 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 02:42:35 2006. The Federal Government is open on Good Friday.So is everything else. Where did this faulty notion that things close on Good Friday come from? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:28:23 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 01:51:03 2006. New Year's Day is debatable. It is pretty much a non-event in my family. However, we celebrate a New Year in Saptember or early October with much greater "fanfare."So because you are of a religion that has a religious new year you can't make yourself partake in the secular new year celebration? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:28:59 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 01:51:03 2006. In my experiences, most things don't close on Good Friday.You are correct, I never heard of that before. |
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Posted by BMTlines on Wed Dec 27 10:30:20 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Dec 27 09:44:55 2006. By that measure, Kwanzaa already qualifies.It will qualify if it is still around a thousand years from now - till then it doesn't IMO. |
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Posted by BMTlines on Wed Dec 27 10:35:45 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:27:29 2006. The New York Stock Exchange used to close - I'm not sure they still do though |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:39:50 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 26 22:55:38 2006. Jesus made more wine when they ran out at a certain wedding in the Bible.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:41:40 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 26 23:11:11 2006. Also..where do you think "christmas" came from?Certainly didn't have anything to do with Jesus..and it certainly didn't have anything to do with God. That's what people don't seem to understand. Christmas is CERTAINLY not a holiday that was sanctioned by Jesus, or even wanted to be celebrated. Christmas started out as a Mardis Gras type of holiday, manufactured into a religious holiday, centuries after Jesus even walked the earth. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:43:04 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 26 23:39:39 2006. Of course, if Jesus never existed (and I'm saying IF) then Christmas is manufactured too.Doesn't matter. It wasn't a holiday sanctioned by Jesus. It IS a made up holiday. In fact, it was a holiday manufactured to be a religious holiday. |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Dec 27 10:57:02 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:27:29 2006. Where did this faulty notion that things close on Good Friday come from?It's a state holiday in Connecticut. Schools, state and local offices, and most banks are closed. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 10:59:17 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:25:04 2006. Thanksgiving began as a religious holiday.How so? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:00:37 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:28:23 2006. Why should he have to partake? As long as he isn't DENOUNCING it, I don't see any problem. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:04:00 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:41:40 2006. Christmas started out as a Mardis Gras type of holiday, manufactured into a religious holidayThen why would the various churches accept it? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:05:02 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:00:37 2006. It doesn't matter either way, but he said is not parting because he celebrates a religious new year in the fall. And yes, he is denouncing it: "New Years is debatable" as to being a 'real' holiday" was a quote. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:05:13 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:43:04 2006. It wasn't a holiday sanctioned by Jesus.Um, the whole Christian religion is made up. AFAIK, none of it was "sanctioned by Jesus". He lived and died and then a while later some people started a religion about him. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:07:29 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:05:13 2006. Um, the whole Christian religion is made up.So is the Jewish religion and ALL religions. Christianity isn't any more made up that Judaism or any of the other ones. Just because one believes in one of the religions doesn't make their religion any less made up than another religion. And for the record, Jesus did start the religion through his teachings. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:13:33 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:05:02 2006. If your life isn't really based upon the secular calendar, then why should you have to partake in a holiday celebrating the new year? If your life is instead based upon say the Jewish calendar, then it makes total sense that you would not have anything to do with the secular new year. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:13:45 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Dec 27 10:57:02 2006. That's odd, I couldn't imagine why. Like I said, it's not even a required church day. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:15:53 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:13:33 2006. Does he have a job? Does he do anything involved with bookeeping, money, whatever? All aspects of business, etc rotate about the normal secular year. I don't understand these notions that if it isn't religious, it isn't important. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:16:44 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:07:29 2006. No, Judaism claims that the Torah was written as directly told over by G-d, and I believe, but could be wrong, that the parts written after "the Jews received the Torah in the desert" were written in real-time (still as told over by G-d). Those events were not just written about many many years later, as I believe were the events in your Bible. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:18:07 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:15:53 2006. I thought many/most financial things were determined by a year that ends June 30 or other such "fiscal years"? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:19:55 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 10:59:17 2006. The Pilgrims started it as a day to give thanks to God. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:22:07 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:18:07 2006. How do you pay your taxes? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Dec 27 11:26:30 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:18:07 2006. I thought many/most financial things were determined by a year that ends June 30 or other such "fiscal years"?Some businesses follow a "fiscal year" and others use the normal calendar year. Generally, those that use a fiscal year do so because their business tends to be seasonal, and ending the year on some day other than December 31 more accurately reflects a full year's worth of business and minimizes year-to-year carryovers. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:28:08 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:04:00 2006. Some churches only accepted only recently, very recently in the scheme of things. Many Protestant churches didn't open their doors on Christmas Day.Everything you need to know about the Christmas (that was only embraced in the 19th Century in America) is right here: http://www.history.com/minisites/christmas/viewPage?pageId=1252 |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:28:09 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:19:55 2006. It's nowhere near as simple as that. It is basically the post-harvest holiday celebrated worldwide. Each person who celebrates it thanks their own god, not the god of one specific religion. Then, from wiki:The proclamation by President Washington in 1789, was a recommendation of a resolution established by both Houses of Congress establishing the first national Thanksgiving Day on November 26, 1789. The reason for establishing Thanksgiving was "to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness. Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be--That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the tranquillity, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us." (signed) G. Washington, The Massachusetts Sentinel, Wednesday, October 14, 1789 It is not a religious holiday. It is a post-harvest / patriotic holiday. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:29:15 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:22:07 2006. With a check or credit card or electronic transaction. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:32:43 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:28:09 2006. In the 1600's....Even though we think of the harvest festival as "the first Thanksgiving," the colonists did not use a name for their autumn celebration. The occasion was not called "Thanksgiving" because the word had a completely different meaning to the Pilgrims. To them, a day of "thanksgiving" was actually a religious holiday set aside for giving thanks to God. As a result, the Pilgrims would never have given such a religious name to a secular day marked by feasting, dancing, singing, and playing games. Instead their harvest celebration was simply identified by the season and the activities involved. It wasn't until the nineteenth century that the feast we know today acquired the name "Thanksgiving." |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:32:43 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:28:08 2006. That link is nice, but they weren't celebrating Christmas, i.e. the holiday with Christ's name on it! Now there is such a holiday, and I see nativity scenes on church lawns, and I've heard of "Christmas Mass". So it seems many Christian denominations/churches celebrate a Christian holiday called Christmas. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:36:17 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:29:15 2006. And what are the dates they base your taxes on? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:38:54 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:32:43 2006. That seems to say there was no one specific pilgrim holiday called "Thanksgiving", rather "thanksgiving" was a TYPE of holiday for them. And the paragraph is saying that our "Thanksgiving" holiday today IS NOT THEIR RELIGIOUS holiday, but is instead their autumn celebration, which they did not call "Thanksgiving". |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:39:30 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:32:43 2006. They do now, but that wasn't the case until very recently.Christmas Outlawed Irving reinvents Christmas in the 19th Century Americans reinvent Christmas yet again |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:39:31 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:36:17 2006. The secular calendar year. But home is my life based upon how much taxes I pay? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:42:01 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:39:30 2006. Yes! Today the Christian churches celebrate a Christian holiday called Christmas. That's my whole point. It is a religious holiday. If Judaism made up a holiday today that had to do with something Jewish, it would be a religious holiday as well! |
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