Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida

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Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018 Many injuries
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Thu Mar 15 14:41:54 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* CNN reports multiple causalities:(
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by SLRT* on Thu Mar 15 15:18:07 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:41:54 2018.* I understand that was a brand-new bridge. Some engineers are in big trouble.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by bingbong* on Thu Mar 15 15:24:08 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* It's pretty completely flattened. I wonder if it's a design flaw, manufacturing flaw (it was prefabbed) or a construction / assembly flaw (did I hear correctly that it was built by drones?)
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Thu Mar 15 15:25:04 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 15 15:18:07 2018.* Something went horribly wrong, and people suffered or died? , as a result. It could be an engineering problem or a materials problem or a concrete curing problem or ??????
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Mar 15 15:29:14 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* Two workers are said to have been replacing material, possibly tie bolts, on the incomplete bridge when it collapsed. The technique in use is called "accelerated bridge construction (ABC)", and is the first span in the world to use "self-cleaning concrete". Numerous vehicles on the highway below are crushed. How sad.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Thu Mar 15 16:02:57 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Mar 15 15:29:14 2018.* Oh, my!😥
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Thu Mar 15 17:41:13 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by bingbong on Thu Mar 15 15:24:08 2018.* Clearly Trump's fault.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by FtGreeneG* on Thu Mar 15 18:09:55 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* Wow sad seemingly senseless tragedy.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Thu Mar 15 18:10:57 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* It had been assembled off-site and moved to the location on Saturday. That tends to sound like it hadn't been properly fastened to whatever it was resting on.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Thu Mar 15 18:30:02 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 15 15:18:07 2018.* More here than meets the eye. One of the two contractors is said to have had other safety issues. In addition there were new materials and new methods used in buildings the bridge.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Mar 15 18:36:06 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by AlM on Thu Mar 15 18:10:57 2018.* From what I can see of the collapsed bridge, it looks like the live load wasn't anywhere near being properly carried across the roadway. I recall my erstwhile instructor at heavy rescue class, Francis Brannagan (who wrote a seminal textbook on structural collapse in fire and EMS operations), saying bridges, no matter how small, need twice the support for their live loads, than appears necessary, due to wind shear and other factors. Here, the incomplete bridge appears to be missing some underside members. I could be wrong, as this is a new type of bridge, but still...
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Thu Mar 15 18:50:12 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Mar 15 18:36:06 2018.* The Daily Mail has pictures of the bridge in place before it collapsed. It has lots of diagonal internal struts. So either those struts were horribly defective or else the bridge wasn't resting properly on its end supporting structures.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Mar 15 18:53:05 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by AlM on Thu Mar 15 18:50:12 2018.* Something clearly wasn't doing job. When the cause is discovered, I'm sure many a head will roll.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Thu Mar 15 19:47:21 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Mar 15 18:30:02 2018.* In addition there were new materials and new methods used in buildings the bridge. Do you think maybe a center support would have taken the stress off of the center of the bridge ?
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by FtGreeneG* on Thu Mar 15 19:55:02 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 15 19:47:21 2018.* I dunno if it was a center support problem I'd assume just the middle of the bridge would have crumbled to the ground. Based on the pic it seems like the our viewing POV left of the bridge was the problem since it's collapsed while the right side stayed intact.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Thu Mar 15 19:55:25 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 15 19:47:21 2018.* All the triangular struts should have served the purpose of carrying the load. But look over at the left. I hadn't seen this picture before. It looks like the base of the bridge just fell off its underlying pillar.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Mar 15 20:15:10 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by AlM on Thu Mar 15 18:50:12 2018.* Trump Jr
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim* on Thu Mar 15 20:31:02 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 15 19:47:21 2018.* Damn...sudden death for the poor souls caught up in wrong place, wrong time situation. May they rest in peace. The yellow tarp shown is usually used to cover a fatality. Truly a painful image to see.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Thu Mar 15 20:47:01 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* terrible who built this
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Thu Mar 15 20:57:09 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Mar 15 18:53:05 2018.* IAWTP
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by bingbong* on Thu Mar 15 21:26:11 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 15 19:47:21 2018.* Latest speculation as to a cause is the bridge unit was incorrectly attached to the moorings. Looking at that picture, that's totally possible. Last report I saw has four lost in this. That's four more than anyone would have wanted.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Dave* on Thu Mar 15 22:21:54 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 15 20:15:10 2018.* Quiet now, Luch. Adults are speaking.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Thu Mar 15 23:38:42 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Mar 15 19:55:02 2018.* A center support may have at least slowed its collapse (or kept the entire right side up), preventing some of the deaths. They should stop trying to be fancy. Pedestrian bridges are a boring solved problem. They don't even need to be ugly like our 1960s-70s era ones: There. Simple, basic bridge with pretty plants. ✔ Built on the cheap ✔ Not an eyesore ✔ Safely flowing traffic underneath
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Fri Mar 16 06:43:28 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Mar 15 20:31:02 2018.* Damn...sudden death for the poor souls caught up in wrong place, wrong time situation. May they rest in peace. The yellow tarp shown is usually used to cover a fatality. Truly a painful image to see. I heard on the news that they were waiting for the light to change. They didn't have a chance. Bill Newkirk
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[VIDEO] Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Fri Mar 16 07:36:41 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.*
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by FYBklyn1959* on Fri Mar 16 09:17:09 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Dave on Thu Mar 15 22:21:54 2018.* +854,300,427,125
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Dave* on Fri Mar 16 09:52:23 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* Saw on the news this morning that the bridge was undergoing a stress test. An inspection afterwards revealed that several cables were loose. Engineers ordered that they be tightened and while that was being done, the bridge collapsed.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Fri Mar 16 09:54:02 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Dave on Fri Mar 16 09:52:23 2018.* One report I heard suggested that one of those cables snapped while being tightened.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Fri Mar 16 11:37:22 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Dave on Fri Mar 16 09:52:23 2018.* Sadly, that makes sense. This reinforces understand why, when routine work goes on, for example a crane delivering sheetrock to a building, they usually block off all traffic. Nothing should go wrong, but every now and then something does.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by FtGreeneG* on Fri Mar 16 11:48:48 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Dave on Fri Mar 16 09:52:23 2018.* I know hindsight is 20/20 but I wonder why the street wasn't closed off during and after the stress test when it was revealed cables needed to be tightened.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Fri Mar 16 12:19:02 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Mar 16 11:48:48 2018.* Different local cultures and regulations. I pass by a few construction sites on my way to work, and if they are doing anything at all involving equipment they will block off the sidewalk and possibly even the street. But that's NYC.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Fred G* on Fri Mar 16 13:04:06 2018, in response to Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 15 14:36:46 2018.* Ouch. Everybody involved is going to be raked over the coals.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by FtGreeneG* on Fri Mar 16 14:03:14 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 16 12:19:02 2018.* Have a feeling those rules about to change in FL.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Fri Mar 16 14:47:12 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 16 13:04:06 2018.* I agree.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by FYBklyn1959* on Fri Mar 16 17:19:54 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Mar 16 11:48:48 2018.* Probably should have, but that is a major east-west arterial in that area. It is actually US 41, so it continues past the populated area to the west coast of Florida and will take you to Naples, Bonita Springs, Fort Myers, etc. May go all the way to the Tampa Bay area. I actually use SW 8th St to get to work, but I go in the other direction, west of the Florida Turnpike Homestead Extension. (the crash site is about 1/2 mile east of the Turnpike). I have been on that stretch of the street, but not for many years.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Catfish 44* on Fri Mar 16 17:37:08 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 15 23:38:42 2018.* A properly designed truss should be able to cross that roadway without a problem. It looks like they are getting too cute for themselves with that wacky truss design. The brilliant minds of the 21st century.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Fri Mar 16 18:06:44 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 16 17:37:08 2018.* Oh well,.....
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Fri Mar 16 18:12:40 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 16 17:37:08 2018.* Here, I think the designers disregarded Brannagan's Law, because they were overconfident in their CAD software. Brannagan's Law is still applicable, even in this century.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Catfish 44* on Fri Mar 16 18:17:02 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Mar 16 18:06:44 2018.* This is reminiscent of the collapse of that walkway in the hotel in KC 1981
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Fred G* on Fri Mar 16 20:20:55 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 16 18:17:02 2018.* Yes!
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Catfish 44* on Fri Mar 16 21:03:12 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 16 20:20:55 2018.* And remember what the cause of that was?
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Fred G* on Fri Mar 16 21:11:36 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 16 21:03:12 2018.* They revised the design and the revision was never thoroughly checked
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by jimmymc25* on Fri Mar 16 21:25:41 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Mar 16 06:43:28 2018.* That's the thing.....something as simple as stopping for a light. And then then the collapse.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Fri Mar 16 21:38:39 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 16 21:03:12 2018.* The upper walkway was hung from rods, and then the lower walkway was hung from rods that dropped down from the upper walkway. So the upper walkway had to support the load of both walkways, which wasn't the intended design. Basically, the nuts holding the upper walkway onto the rods just pulled through the walkway. All the weight of both walkways, and all the people on them, was being held up just by a few square inches of nuts. An engineer approved the revised design over the phone without really having seen exactly what he was approving.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Fri Mar 16 21:40:17 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 16 18:17:02 2018.* This is beginning to look different. The design of this bridge was probably fine - it just wasn't properly set onto its base, and they tried to adjust it while traffic flowed underneath. It looks like it just slipped off the base it was supposed to rest on.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Catfish 44* on Fri Mar 16 21:40:45 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 16 21:11:36 2018.* Chump behavior professionally and morally. Let alone using practices that have been proven reliable. Suspending a walkway shouldn't be fatal to 100+ people when we have suspension bridges standing for decades. When they want to get cute and show how much better they can do it than before they get to big for their britches.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by AlM* on Fri Mar 16 21:48:46 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 16 21:40:45 2018.* Florida doesn't look like an issue of getting cute with the design. It looks more like an issue with correctly installing a properly designed bridge. Agreed that Kansas City was a matter of getting cute and careless and making the design so simple and lightweight that it just didn't work.
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by Catfish 44* on Fri Mar 16 23:08:37 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 16 21:48:46 2018.* Fair enough. What kind of a truss did Florida use?
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Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Fri Mar 16 23:17:53 2018, in response to Re: Pedestrian bridge collapses in Florida, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 16 21:48:46 2018.* The original skywalk design for the Hyatt Regency was just fine. It was altered, and approved, sight unseen, by an engineer over the phone, without a single calculation being made, to see if the revised design could actually carry the load.
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