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| Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. (1479691) | |
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| (1479691) | |
Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:20:55 2017 BBCHysteria is rising as Trump is now five days late in waiving the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, which passed both houses of congress by an overwhelming margin in 1995, and became law by Clinton's failure to act. ("10-day rule"). Every six months the President may issue a waiver deferring the move for up to six months and every President has done so. Trump signed the last waiver early. Now it is five days since the December 1 deadline and no waiver (but a lot of noise). I can't find anything in The Act that says the President must say a single word or write a single word to have the Act go into effect automatically -- only if he doesn't want it to. |
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| (1479696) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Dec 5 12:28:38 2017, in response to Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:20:55 2017. America has just indicted(or was he found guilty?) a man in connection with an Erdogan/Obama gold smuggling ring of evading sanctions with Iran.That new/old nazi state has too many emergencies from day to day. Who let them in NATO again? |
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| (1479701) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:37:56 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by orange blossom special on Tue Dec 5 12:28:38 2017. Turkey was let into NATO because of their strategic position in the area.But Liberal Europe wouldn't let them in the EU, and many have charged it is racism. |
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| (1479705) | |
Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:49:11 2017, in response to Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:20:55 2017. Let the spontaneous demonstrations begin. |
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| (1479706) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 5 12:51:27 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by orange blossom special on Tue Dec 5 12:28:38 2017. Turkey under the Republican People's Party was not the same as Turkey under the so-called Justice and Development Party, and the purpose of getting them into NATO was to protect them, Israel and Europe from the USSR as well as keep the USSR out of the Mediterranean (plus stop the USSR from easily helping the national-socialist Egyptians under Nasser). |
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| (1479707) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:51:53 2017, in response to Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:49:11 2017. Yay! Finally Trump doing something I like. |
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| (1479709) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:55:51 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:51:53 2017. IAWTP. |
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| (1479719) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Dec 5 14:50:25 2017, in response to Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:49:11 2017. Very dangerous thing. The Arabs will go berserk. |
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| (1479727) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 15:12:07 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Dec 5 14:50:25 2017. This LAW has been waived, what, 43 times since it was passed (every six months). And what have we gotten for the waivers. The "Peace Process" advanced? Or no intafadas? Or no rockets from Gaza?Continuing to issue the waivers is giving in to mob rule, writ very large. |
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| (1479728) | |
The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 15:16:05 2017, in response to Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:20:55 2017. From the LAW:The Congress makes the following findings: (1) Each sovereign nation, under international law and custom, may designate its own capital. (2) Since 1950, the city of Jerusalem has been the capital of the State of Israel. (3) The city of Jerusalem is the seat of Israel’s President, Parliament, and Supreme Court, and the site of numerous government ministries and social and cultural institutions. (4) The city of Jerusalem is the spiritual center of Judaism, and is also considered a holy city by the members of other religious faiths. (5) From 1948-1967, Jerusalem was a divided city and Israeli citizens of all faiths as well as Jewish citizens of all states were denied access to holy sites in the area controlled by Jordan. (6) In 1967, the city of Jerusalem was reunited during the conflict known as the Six Day War. (7) Since 1967, Jerusalem has been a united city administered by Israel, and persons of all religious faiths have been guaranteed full access to holy sites within the city. (8) This year marks the 28th consecutive year that Jerusalem has been administered as a unified city in which the rights of all faiths have been respected and protected. (9) In 1990, the Congress unanimously adopted Senate Concurrent Resolution 106, which declares that the Congress ‘strongly believes that Jerusalem must remain an undivided city in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected’. (10) In 1992, the United States Senate and House of Representatives unanimously adopted Senate Concurrent Resolution 113 of the One Hundred Second Congress to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem, and reaffirming congressional sentiment that Jerusalem must remain an undivided city. (11) The September 13, 1993, Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements lays out a timetable for the resolution of ‘final status’ issues, including Jerusalem. (12) The Agreement on the Gaza Strip and the Jericho Area was signed May 4, 1994, beginning the five-year transitional period laid out in the Declaration of Principles. (13) In March of 1995, 93 members of the United States Senate signed a letter to Secretary of State Warren Christopher encouraging ‘planning to begin now’ for relocation of the United States Embassy to the city of Jerusalem. (14) In June of 1993, 257 members of the United States House of Representatives signed a letter to the Secretary of State Warren Christopher stating that the relocation of the United States Embassy to Jerusalem ‘should take place no later than . . . 1999’. (15) The United States maintains its embassy in the functioning capital of every country except in the case of our democratic friend and strategic ally, the State of Israel. (16) The United States conducts official meetings and other business in the city of Jerusalem in de facto recognition of its status as the capital of Israel. (17) In 1996, the State of Israel will celebrate the 3,000th anniversary of the Jewish presence in Jerusalem since King David’s entry. |
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| (1479731) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 15:26:11 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 15:12:07 2017. IAWTP |
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| (1479733) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 15:36:00 2017, in response to The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 15:16:05 2017. One thing I might add:Regardless of the status of so-called "East Jerusalem," the portion of the City of Jerusalem referred to as "West Jerusalem" is internationally-recognized as sovereign Israeli territory, not subject to any sort of so-called "occupation." The government of Israel and the institutions thereof which are located in the capital are all located in that section of the city and the embassy will also be so-located. |
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| (1479736) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 15:46:11 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 15:36:00 2017. Jerusalem was supposed to be an "International City" after World War II. But Jordan closed the area that they controlled so no Jews and no Israelis could enter it. Shanties were set up on the Western Wall and Jews couldn't visit their many religious places or even the historic "Jewish Quarter."And the world was OK with that. And the Catholic Church was OK with that, until the Jews controlled the entire city, then they called for an "International City" once again. Why are Jews always expected to show love to groups that have shown nothing but hatred for them when they have the upper hand? |
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| (1479739) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Dec 5 15:49:50 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:51:53 2017. About as stupid as it gets but sure, go for it. |
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| (1479743) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 16:07:12 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 15:46:11 2017. It is an "International City, being controlled by The International Jew.To add to you post, the Jewish Quarter was completely razed by Jordan. The reason that it looks like the "newest" and most well-maintained of the four-quarters is not because of extra investment by Israel, but because it all had to be built and rebuilt in the last 50 years. |
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| (1479744) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 16:09:34 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 16:07:12 2017. Yes. |
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| (1479757) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Dec 5 17:30:20 2017, in response to Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:20:55 2017. Are the "statement(s) of the interests affected" as required by section (7)(3) for previous waivers available? |
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| (1479764) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 18:42:44 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Dec 5 17:30:20 2017. Actually you can find at least some of them on a [dot]gov site. |
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| (1479770) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 19:12:57 2017, in response to Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:20:55 2017. Is he crossing the Red Line at Metro Center, Gallery Place or Fort Totten? |
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| (1479792) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 5 20:35:54 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 19:12:57 2017. Which Metro Center? :)  (I know you meant the Washington one, but it's kinda cool that two systems have a station named Metro Center which both have a heavy rail Red Line running to it.) |
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| (1479802) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 5 21:25:39 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 5 20:35:54 2017. Say, that's on topic. Where's the bus stops, just to balance this invasion out? |
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| (1479819) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 5 23:03:30 2017, in response to The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 15:16:05 2017. The legal position is great. I believe that Jerusalem is the eternal, undivided capital of the State of Israel. I believe that while it is necessary to create a Palestinian state, little if any of East Jerusalem will be part of said state. The Old City must remain under Israeli control.That all being said, Trump's plan to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and/or to move the embassy there, however symbolic these declarations might end up being, is bad for US interests, bad for Israel, and bad for the Jews. |
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| (1479820) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Tue Dec 5 23:08:06 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 5 23:03:30 2017. You're welcome. |
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| (1479830) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 6 01:34:19 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 5 23:03:30 2017. Why? |
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| (1479832) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 6 02:40:41 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 19:12:57 2017. Alewife |
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| (1479835) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 03:37:40 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 6 01:34:19 2017. What is the capital of Israel? |
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| (1479836) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:14:27 2017, in response to Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:20:55 2017. Fuck Turkey. |
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| (1479837) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:15:29 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:51:53 2017. WOW! WOW! I'm impressed. |
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| (1479838) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:15:48 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by SLRT on Tue Dec 5 12:55:51 2017. Me too |
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| (1479839) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:16:15 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Dec 5 15:49:50 2017. Elaborate. |
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| (1479840) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:16:37 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Dec 5 14:50:25 2017. Bring it on. |
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| (1479841) | |
Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:17:02 2017, in response to Re: Multiple Source: Trump Telephoned Abbas and Jordanian King he is moving Embassy, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 15:26:11 2017. Me too. |
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| (1479842) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:19:17 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 19:12:57 2017. Clark juntion. |
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| (1479843) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:20:34 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:19:17 2017. Please disregard, I just read your answer in a another thread. |
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| (1479844) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:22:02 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 03:37:40 2017. Please disregard. I just read your answer in another thread. |
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| (1479847) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 07:40:27 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 5 23:03:30 2017. Let's ignore the "eternal, undivided" stuff.That the Arabs and their political fellow travelers have been able to force American presidents to waive American law for 22 years out of fear of violence is shameful. Every time an American president has issued a waiver (including Trump 6 months ago) of US LAW essentially against fear of violence, the Arab world has been handed a victory in maintaining their fantasy that they can deny the reality of the "Zionist Entity" in their Umma. |
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| (1479850) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 07:47:50 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:14:27 2017. Stuffing and a good gravy helps a lot. |
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Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 6 07:55:16 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 6 02:40:41 2017. AlewifeThat's where you pahk you cah. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 6 07:57:48 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 6 04:14:27 2017. 
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Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 08:05:00 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 6 02:40:41 2017. That's fishy. |
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Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 08:12:06 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 5 16:07:12 2017. Good first sentence. |
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| (1479857) | |
Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Dec 6 08:43:06 2017, in response to Re: Turkey Draws a Red Line Against U.S., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 5 21:25:39 2017. Happy now? That is the southbound bus stop on Flower St at 7th St in downtown Los Angeles. The main entrance to the 7th St/Metro Center station (Red, Blue, Purple and Expo lines) is to the right. I didn't feel like googling the location of WMATA Metro Center. |
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Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 6 08:52:16 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 6 01:34:19 2017. Goading a bunch of violent hostage takers (which is essentially what militant Palestinians are) may be legal and still not a good idea.Same as with goading North Korea, though of course North Korea's power over the hostages it holds is broader and stronger than the Palestinians'. |
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Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 09:02:48 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by AlM on Wed Dec 6 08:52:16 2017. Yes, fear of violent hostage takers is an important driver of foreign policy.Better give them whatever they want. |
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Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Dec 6 09:08:21 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 09:02:48 2017. We've seen how well that has worked out during the Clinton, Bush II and obama administration. Perhaps another 8 years of burying our heads in the sand will work out better. |
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| (1479861) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 6 09:20:57 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 09:02:48 2017. I am not professionally qualified to deal with hostage takers. But 40 years worth of American diplomats, both Republican and Democratic, have concluded that a particular approach is the best one.I am concerned about Trump second-guessing them on a purely emotional basis. I don't think he is any more qualified to deal with hostage-takers than I am. |
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| (1479864) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Dec 6 09:47:38 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 5 23:03:30 2017. I can't help but think that your feelings about the wisdom of the US recognizing Jerusalem as the Capitol of Israel is more about the President and less about the policy. |
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| (1479865) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 09:49:10 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by AlM on Wed Dec 6 09:20:57 2017. So you think the law is a mistake?And you think requiring the President to certify a waiver every six months is a formality. And you compare international relations to hostage taking? Hostage situations resolve, and not over 22 years and not by benefiting the hostage takers. |
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| (1479866) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Dec 6 09:49:26 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 5 23:03:30 2017. I can't help but think that your feelings about the wisdom of the US recognizing Jerusalem as the Capitol of Israel is more about the President and less about the policy. |
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| (1479867) | |
Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 6 09:52:12 2017, in response to Re: The U.S. Legal Position on Why the Embassy Should be Moved., posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 6 09:49:10 2017. And you compare international relations to hostage taking? In the cases of Palestinian militants and North Korea, yes. Both are saying, give us what we want, or we'll hurt/kill these people. |
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