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| For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again (1389439) | |
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Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 13:15:09 2016, in response to For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 12:51:32 2016. Donald Trump is much worse than either Reagan or Carter. Say what you will about Reagan being an actor, he had been the capable governor of California for eight years. |
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| (1389445) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 13:24:21 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 13:15:09 2016. I didn't vote for Reagan in 1984 either, though with the miracle of hindsight, I would have no trouble voting for him if I had it to do over.I don't intend to vote for anyone on the ballot but you think I should vote for Hillary? |
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| (1389447) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 13:32:26 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 13:24:21 2016. Yes. |
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| (1389448) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Aug 23 13:34:02 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 13:24:21 2016. Hillary Clinton definitely has her issues. Admittedly, I lean liberal, but Trump is the perfectly storm for why I definitely wouldn't cross the aisle at this point. Does absolutely nothing for any interests I care about, and that's truly an understatement. |
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| (1389453) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 13:58:35 2016, in response to For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 12:51:32 2016. I honestly am not sure who but it was probably Frank Zappa, which I still consider a better choice than my 2000 vote for Ralph Nadir.If you voted for Nadir you sure hit bottom. :) |
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| (1389455) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 23 14:17:00 2016, in response to For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 12:51:32 2016. You won't say which one you fear and which one you hate?You were certainly wrong about one of them. |
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| (1389456) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 23 14:30:39 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by WayneJay on Tue Aug 23 13:34:02 2016. what interests do you care about?And do any politicians really care about any of our interests? I doubt it. |
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| (1389457) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 14:46:55 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 13:58:35 2016. Yes. |
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| (1389458) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 14:47:58 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 23 14:17:00 2016. Take a guess. |
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| (1389459) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 14:50:06 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 13:32:26 2016. Can you express a positive why without bringing up Trump? |
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| (1389460) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 14:53:45 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by WayneJay on Tue Aug 23 13:34:02 2016. OK. But for me that doesn't translate to my vote for Hillary. |
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| (1389461) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 14:59:04 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 14:50:06 2016. Experience.Intelligence. Ability to negotiate with hostile adversaries (whether Putin or Ryan). Middle of the road foreign policy (neither Cheney nor Sanders) Too liberal for your taste but in combination with a much more conservative Congress will probably get some mildly progressive initiatives to work. Sneaky and underhanded as a person but not really more so than the average politician. (Every president since Carter has been a sneak one way or the other, and look how much you love that non-sneak, Carter.) |
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| (1389466) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 15:02:13 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 14:50:06 2016. Why not bring up Trump? There are only two choices, and one of them is unbearably horrible. If somehow the two choices were Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, I'd support Cruz. |
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| (1389467) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Aug 23 15:09:48 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 23 14:30:39 2016. My interests are consistent with those of most liberals who are somewhat close to center. Also with many who are slightly right of center, especially those who are disgusted with today's GOP.I would agree that politicians really don't care about their constituent's concerns. |
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| (1389468) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 15:09:57 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 15:02:13 2016. You would support Cruz? There are reasons he has been described as the most hated man in the Senate. And I don't normally quote John Boehner on anything, but publicly calling Ted Cruz 'Lucifer in the flesh' has a ring of truth to it. |
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| (1389469) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 15:14:06 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 15:09:57 2016. I would support Cruz against Trump simply because I less fear Cruz's finger on the nuclear button.I do agree both are capable of ruining the world economy if they ever convince Congress (Cruz that we should go on the gold standard, Trump a 45% tariff on Chinese goods). |
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| (1389470) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Aug 23 15:19:09 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 14:53:45 2016. OK, fair enough. In terms of voting... To not vote is absolutely not an option for me. Growing up, my parents drilled into my brother and I that the rights we have are never to be taken for granted.For me, Trump is a worse choice for POTUS be far. In fact, I'd say he's the perfect example of who should not be at the helm. I get that others feel differently. It is what it is |
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| (1389471) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 15:19:10 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 15:09:57 2016. All that tells anyone is that I hate Trump that much that I'd vote for the devil before him. |
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| (1389472) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 15:28:22 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 15:19:10 2016. Well, Trump's finger on the nuclear button might be less risky than the devil's.I might even vote for Trump over David Duke, though that would be a hard choice. |
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| (1389474) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 15:35:55 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 15:14:06 2016. I worry more about Hillary's bellicosity, frankly.I'm amused by the Democrats 'ginning up the idea that Trump will blow things up*, and their discovery of the joys of Red Baiting. Hillary's campaign manager, Robby Mook, suggesting Trump is a "puppet of the Kremlin." I haven't heard talk like that for decades, and not from Democrats. And therein we have a notable difference between Trump and Hillary that has caused Trump trouble: Trump does his own dirty work. When Hillary wants to put out trash on the other candidate she does it through toadies so she has deniability. As to tariffs, have you dealt with them directly? I have. They are a fiscal and political tool and a not inappropriate response to currency manipulation. *I am reminded of an ad involving a little girl, a daisy, a countdown and a nuclear blast. As someone memorably said "They told me if I voted for Goldwater, we would have have a larger war in Vietnam, and sure enough, I voted for Goldwater and we had a larger war in Vietnam." |
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| (1389475) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 15:39:54 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 15:35:55 2016. They are a fiscal and political tool and a not inappropriate response to currency manipulation.Clinton would have good economic advisers that can work out the details of effects of various economic proposals. That cannot be said of many of the other 20+ people who were running for president, including Sanders and the one whose name may not be mentioned. |
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| (1389476) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 15:40:41 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by WayneJay on Tue Aug 23 15:19:09 2016. OK. |
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| (1389482) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Aug 23 17:58:05 2016, in response to For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 12:51:32 2016. You sure it doesn't feel like 1985? |
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| (1389496) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Aug 23 18:35:59 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 15:35:55 2016. There's evidence of the ties to the Russian oligarchs, and not just Manafort. These are currently being investigated, it'll take some time because the deals are quite opaque, buried within corporate entity on top of corporate entity.Trump has a just enough unstable personality that the fear of him becoming unhinged and so much as attempting to us a nuclear weapon in some conflict, ongoing or something he starts, is rooted in actual reality. He obviously doesn't have any qualms about it, or much awarenss of the consequences of using a nuke. |
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| (1389512) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:50:42 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by bingbong on Tue Aug 23 18:35:59 2016. Oh please. Trump is far from ideal, but that's just riculous. |
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| (1389513) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:51:43 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 15:28:22 2016. Yeah, the nuclear scare tactic they drummed up is ridiculous |
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| (1389516) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 19:54:12 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:50:42 2016. You're not worried at all? |
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| (1389518) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:56:52 2016, in response to For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 12:51:32 2016. Interestingly, in this whole thread, I haven't seen anything saying what is great about Hillary to vote fore her. The only theme that comes up is that she's not Trump. Doesn't bode well to me to make me want to vote for her. (That doesn't imply I support Trump). |
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| (1389520) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:59:48 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 19:54:12 2016. About that? No. Again, I am uneasy abouteither of tthem, but that is certainly not even remotely one of the reasons. |
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| (1389521) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 23 20:00:03 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:51:43 2016. His ability to overreact and flip out of minor shit is pretty serious. Could you imagine his rage and retribution over something significant?The military is very likely to cut the cord on the big red button, but I can definitely see him pounding it with a hammer. |
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| (1389522) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 20:00:06 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:56:52 2016. I guess you didn't read through the thread.I answered SLRT and got silence. It's hard for conservatives to admit that she's competent and moderate. |
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| (1389531) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 20:07:13 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 20:00:06 2016. I didn't respond because I don't see where she's demonstrated the qualities you attribute to her. The only competence she possesses have the initial WJC. |
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| (1389533) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 23 20:11:09 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 20:00:06 2016. It's downright impossible when the echo chamber will never mention it and there's no escape from it for them. |
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| (1389537) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Aug 23 20:27:39 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 13:15:09 2016. He might be worse than Reagan or Carter but he ain't worse than Hillary Clinton. |
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| (1389545) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 20:41:51 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 20:00:06 2016. But Iddon'tsee she displays ccompetence or moderation. |
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| (1389547) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 20:44:30 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 20:41:51 2016. Then I guess you're stuck with Trump. |
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| (1389550) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Aug 23 21:04:29 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 23 19:51:43 2016. Not really. |
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| (1389561) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 21:28:39 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Aug 23 20:27:39 2016. No, he's not. He is by far the worst person ever scared up by any major party as their nominee. And it's not just his lack of political experience. Wendell Willkie was also a businessman who had no political experience, but Trump is worse. |
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| (1389565) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 21:44:36 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 20:44:30 2016. Who, of course, is a paragon of competence and moderation. |
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| (1389566) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Aug 23 22:09:38 2016, in response to For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 12:51:32 2016. 1980 was my first Presidential election. I wasn't happy with Carter (in fact, I voted for Ted Kennedy in the democratic primary, not that it did any good (I lived in Caifornia then, and they were last in those days), but I figured, the devil you know...Of course that was the year that a petulant Jimmy conceded before the west coast polls closed. I got home just before 6 PM (was in school and working at USC), so I turned on the TV before walking down the street to vote. Imagine my surprise when I found out the election was over :( I voted anyway (for Carter). He remains the worst president of my lifetime (I was born near the end of the Eisenhower administration). Among other things,he sined the Airline Deregulation Act, which screwed some smaller cities that had fairly good airline service. One of them was Willard Field at Champaign/Urbana, IL. I lived there for 3 years in the early 70s while my mother was a graduate student at the University of Illinois. back then, Ozark was the local airline, had quite a few flights at CMI, with DC-9 jet service and larger props (Fairchild-Hiller FH-227Bs). So preregulation at CMI:   Today:  Yep. 5 flights on Jungle Jets (4xORD, 1xDFW). :( Needless to say, the last time I went to C/U (June 2006), I flew WN FLL-MDW and drove down. Only a 2-hour drive, and hardy any traffic on I-57 (even driving Cicero Av from MDW to 57 wasn't terrible). And I will do the same if I return in the future. Jimmy Carter SUCKS!!! >:( |
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Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 24 00:48:43 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 23 21:28:39 2016. Aaron Burr came close (though it turned out he was a very decent leader of the Senate). He probably would have made major efforts to profit personally from being President had he been elected. Of course, it was only by accident that he came into contention for the job, he wasn't actually a nominee. |
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| (1389594) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Aug 24 01:55:50 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 13:24:21 2016. If you don't want to support H or T this time around, vote for someone else. Anyone else. Third party, write in the name of the dog down the street, anything. Show them that you cared enough to vote, but did not care for the candidates that bubbled up to the top.The only wasted vote is the vote not cast. |
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Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 24 02:10:23 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Aug 24 01:55:50 2016. Libertarian, 1980 myself. About the only thing that remains of what was originally there is "NONE OF THE ABOVE" as a ballot choice. Make them do it over and we'll wait until there's someone worth voting for. My only regret of once being a Libertarian. We never got that. :( |
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| (1389629) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Aug 24 09:20:19 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Aug 24 01:55:50 2016. write in the name of the dog down the streetI don't like the dog down the street. Could I write in my own dog, or would that be nepotism? |
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| (1389630) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 24 09:22:02 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Wed Aug 24 09:20:19 2016. No, caninism. |
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| (1389633) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Aug 24 09:29:46 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 23 20:44:30 2016. No I'm not. |
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| (1389639) | |
Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Aug 24 09:53:47 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Aug 23 22:09:38 2016. I favored Ted Kennedy too. He lost the nomination by a single Chappaquiddick. |
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Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 24 09:59:08 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Wed Aug 24 09:29:46 2016. You don't accept the premise that Clinton is competent. You don't accept the premise that Clinton is less bad than Trump. Johnson and Stein aren't going to win.So if everyone who thinks like you votes like you, our next president will be Trump. |
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Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Aug 24 10:02:24 2016, in response to Re: For me, personally, it feels like 1980 all over again, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 23 13:24:21 2016. though with the miracle of hindsight, I would have no trouble voting for him if I had it to do over.Really? With the miracle of hindsight, it would make LESS sense voting for him today, knowing what we know about his mental state. |
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