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| Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control (1331854) | |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 18:37:07 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 18:33:57 2015. Your point is interesting but irrelevant. I was rebutting the claim that gun owners shouldn't pay onerous taxes because auto owners don't.I agree that taxes on guns in excess of reasonable levels would very likely be found unconstitutional, and rightly so. But that wasn't the argument being made. |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 9 18:40:07 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 18:37:07 2015. LOALM |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 18:41:24 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 18:37:07 2015. Why would that be the case if they are to be used for a dedicated fund for gun victims and enforcement costs? Thats pay as you go, nothing unconstitutional about that. These are actual gun related needs to be met. Even the NRA whines about enforcing existing laws, here's how to pay for it. |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 18:58:05 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 18:41:24 2015. It is unconstitutional because you are charging for the exercise of a right guaranteed by the Constitution. No different than the government saying pay a huge publication tax to defend against any defamation claims. |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 19:05:11 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 18:58:05 2015. It is unconstitutional because you are charging for the exercise of a right guaranteed by the Constitution.Only if it's unreasonable relative to associated expenses. The courts have not overturned NYC's gun permit fees. $113/gun/year |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 19:06:06 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 15:23:31 2015. what they innocently call "closing the gun show loophole" is really an attempt to ban family members and friends from selling or gifting guns to each other.It's a Trojan Horse by the anti-Second Amendment crowd. |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 19:10:05 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Dec 9 16:46:08 2015. The Second Amendment was created when the United States was a very different place.Has it been repealed once the nation changed? |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:11:08 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 18:58:05 2015. If they id this common sense solution it old not be, as it would be folded into to cost of buying a gun, nothing prohibits that. Having a right and being able financially to exercise it are two different animals. Ask a poor pregnant texan how that rolls. But do it quickly, she might be dead soon. |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:11:58 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 19:05:11 2015. Add a zero, or better, two to the end of that number and we're getting to what a gun costs America. |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:17:54 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:11:58 2015. That would definitely be struck down. |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 19:18:22 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 19:06:06 2015. You mean when I sell a gun to my Uncle Joe, it's not in the public interest that he go through a background check? |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 19:20:43 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:11:58 2015. ???300 million guns x $113 = $40 billion. I doubt that you can demonstrate that gun violence costs the country more than that annually in financial terms. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:22:02 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 19:06:06 2015. If you cannot pass a background check you should not have a gun period. What if I purchase a gun because I know I can pass it and gift it to a friend who is a wife beater and wants to kill his wife? Government has every right to make sure that guns are only in the hands of a purchaser who can pass a background check |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:24:19 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:11:08 2015. Show me where in the Constitution it says the right to an abortion shall not be infringed |
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Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 9 19:24:36 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 19:06:06 2015. I had to go through that thanks to the otherwise bullshit NY SAFE Act, and I did not find it to be an unreasonable burden. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:30:42 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 19:06:06 2015. Wrong. Transactions like that can be processed through a licensed dealer so the paperwork to follow the gun can be handled legally. Yes, there’ll be taxes to pay, but that's a transfer thing, inheritance always involves some taxes (ever inherit a car?). And a background check would be a part of the transaction, as it should be.Guns are horrible gift. "I wish you'd kill something" is a terrible sentiment. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:32:45 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 19:10:05 2015. It should be. At least modified to reflect modern reality. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:42:56 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:24:19 2015. Show me where the Constitution says government, any government (meaning state or local), has the right to interfere in personal medical decisions. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:43:56 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:42:56 2015. 10th Amendment |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:44:34 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:17:54 2015. That's what it costs the taxpayers. It won't be struck down.it's totally realistic. $113 barely covers the cost of processing paperwork. It does othing for victims of gun violence. It doesn't cover the cost of enforcing gun laws. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:50:25 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:44:34 2015. All laws cost money to enforce. Administrative costs tied to what it actually costs to process the licenses that will be allowed. $11300 per year to a "victim" fund that is unconstitutional |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:51:26 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:42:56 2015. I answered your question now answer mine - where in the Constitution does it say that the right to an abortion shall not be infringed? |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 19:55:26 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:11:58 2015. You and your husband own guns. Are you willing to pay $11,300 per gun per year every year? |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 19:56:54 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 17:44:47 2015. The Army has been around since 1775? When are you claiming there was no army? |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 19:57:37 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:32:45 2015. Spoken like a Marxist. |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 19:58:16 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 18:18:57 2015. Funny things, facts. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:08:36 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 19:20:43 2015. We would not be collecting that in the course of a year. I'm proposing a one shot thousand(s) dollar tax on lethal weapons purchases to fund a victims relief fund and enforcement of gun laws. Were guns not so prolific, and so many gun owners inept in handling their weapons, society as a whole would not be suffering this domestic war and its carnage.That figure is for a NYC handgun permit. Not all guns are handguns. Hunting shotguns that are not capable of killing a human being would be handled differently. The issue is guns that can kill a human being. That includes some legal rifles. A ban on semiautomatics is also completely reasonable, and SCOTUS this past week said as much. |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 20:08:59 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 18:34:51 2015. ROTFL!The militia acts provided the president the authority to organize state militias. It was that era's version of the National Guard. It has nothing to do with regulating guns owned by private, non-militia citizens. Protip: The Georgia gun ban has nothing to do with federal law. It was also declared unconstitutional by the Georgia Supreme Court. And do you know what law their SC used as authority to make its decision? The Second Amendment. You know, the one that allows "citizens the privilege of keeping and bearing arms in defense of themselves and their country.” More and more it's obvious you don't understand the difference between state laws and federal laws. Maybe you should sit out future discussion on the topic and let the adults continue the conversation? |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:10:21 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 9 19:24:36 2015. The SAFE At is the only decent thing Cuomo has accomplished. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:16:28 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:51:26 2015. The decision is Roe v Wade. It determines that medical privacy is determined at the Federal level, and if you think that's wrong, remember it s the only thing that will insure your voice in your medical treatment, in mandating that wall of doctor/patient privacy, when single payer finally arrives. It alone ensures the government gets no part in your medical decisions.The day that decision comes own s something I've waited on for a long time. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:18:52 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:50:25 2015. Its a one time tax attached to the purchase of a lethal weapon. Its not too much. Think of what the costs are when someone gets shot. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 20:23:03 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 19:56:54 2015. When are you claiming there was no army?There wasn't really a United States Army from 1783 to 1796. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:23:14 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:16:28 2015. so now you like Supreme Court decisions? |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Dec 9 20:24:28 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:23:14 2015. Here |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:26:54 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 19:55:26 2015. You are also NOT PAYING ATTENTION. A ONE TIME SALES TAX on the purchase of a gun is what I'm talking about. Like $1000 or more. Use the money for gun violence victims and gun law enforcement. The added cost would hopefully prompt these owners into being extra careful with their lethal weapon. The costs all these gun incur on society should be borne by the gun owners, 70% of America does not own, or want any part of, a gun. Why should we pay for some GCMs obsessions!Much as I'd love to see a yearly thing I understand that's not feasible. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:27:24 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 19:18:22 2015. What you do with Uncle Joe is none of the public's business.If you know that Uncle Joe is violently insane and commits a crime with a gun you willfully gave him, you will be held liable for that in a court of law. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:28:07 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 19:22:02 2015. see my response to AlM |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:30:23 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 19:30:42 2015. Guns are horrible gift. "I wish you'd kill something" is a terrible sentiment.No, they are the gift of Life. "I wish you have the means to protect yourself from someone wanting to kill you" is a loving sentiment. |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 20:30:43 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:26:54 2015. Too bad for you that's unconstitutional. It just sucks being you, doesn't it? |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:31:50 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 19:57:37 2015. Lulz. I'm as capitalist as they come. Problem here, as I see it, dead people are not good customers. Nor are they repeat customers. So, as a capitalist, I want as many living people ready to buy my stuff as I can get. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:34:39 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 20:08:59 2015. Well guess what? Thy did. After all, they had to ensure that these militia guys were competent. Which we could use a LOT more of in these times with all the GCMs about. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 20:35:22 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:16:28 2015. As a matter of jurisprudence Roe v. Wade was awful. If you don't believe me just read what Ruth Bader Ginsburg has said. The constitutional basis is dubious on the best day as it speaks of emanations from penumbras and not the actual text of the Constitution. Therefore I will take that as no, there is no explicit text saying the right to an abortion shall not be infringed. I will also ignore your gross mischaracterization of the holding of Roe. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 20:36:22 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:18:52 2015. Think of what it costs when someone is libeled or knifed or hit with a brick. Yes it is too much. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:37:03 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:27:24 2015. It is if Uncle Joe puts a bullet through someone's liver without airtight proof it was in self defense it is.He may be the crazy uncle. Only a real, thorough background check will tell us for sure. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:37:08 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 20:08:59 2015. PWN3D!!! |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 20:37:44 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 9 20:23:03 2015. Most but not all of the Continental Army was disbanded. A small residual force remained at West Point and some frontier outposts until Congress created the United States Army by their resolution of June 3, 1784. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 9 20:38:30 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:31:50 2015. So let's ban knives and bricks and anything that can possibly kill people. Turn in your dog because a few crazed owners breed dangerous ones |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:38:33 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:30:23 2015. That doesn't work. Dd this erlier this afternoon...http://www.vpc.org/press/self-defense-gun-use-is-rare-study-finds/ |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 9 20:39:20 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:37:08 2015. Yessir.It's not hard to do. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 9 20:40:47 2015, in response to Re: Gun Proliferation In The US Is Out Of Control, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 9 20:26:54 2015. How about a $10,000 tax on each abortion?The monies raised would be used to aid victims of rape and teenage prostitution and to cure STDs and other societal maladies that stem from sexual activity. Abortion, of course, would continue to remain a constitutional right. |
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