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| Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital (1235530) | |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 18:39:03 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 23 16:20:32 2014. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/17/opinion/jochen-bittner-whats-behind-germanys-new-anti-semitism.html?_r=0 |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 23 19:26:07 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 18:39:03 2014. The problem isn't so much that the "Old Germans" aren't teaching the "new Germans" about tolerance and acceptance of Jews. It's that the "new Germans" are Muslims who have very little love for Jewish people or non-Germans who sympathize with antisemitism. It's arguably the same situation in the rest of Europe with France being the case that was mentioned earlier. In the US, while there's far less numbers of Muslim immigrants, there's a sizable chunk of the native non-white population that isn't exactly sympathetic to Israel either. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Oct 23 20:02:10 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 18:35:52 2014. Many of them left to get away from it when things went down hill. Others were trapped and couldn't leave. It was a horrible situation. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Oct 23 20:07:14 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 23 16:20:32 2014. So Mitch45 was wrong? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Oct 23 20:20:13 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Oct 23 20:02:10 2014. Here's an interesting story of a very indirect escape from Germany starting in 1939 |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 20:32:43 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Oct 23 20:02:10 2014. Not according to members of my father's family, who were there. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 20:39:06 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 23 19:26:07 2014. My point. Germany won't be able to enforce its anti-bigotry laws against these people. You can't legislate away hate. What will eventually happen is that these "new Germans" will only vote for people who share their anti-Semitic views and German politicians, seeing which way the political wind is blowing, will start to ignore and/or weaken its laws.Jews are always the first. But we're never the only ones and we're never the last. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 22:31:55 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Oct 23 20:07:14 2014. I don't think so. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:16:51 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Oct 23 11:48:13 2014. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data." |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:16:53 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Oct 23 07:45:19 2014. So you're saying that modern democratic France is the same as Germany at the fall of the Wiemar Republic?Odd though the circumstances may be, I'm nonetheless entitled to invoke Godwin's Law. You lose the thread. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:00 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Oct 23 10:39:36 2014. To move to Berlin? What, so it's forever tainted? Centuries after the last Nazi is dead and buried, and Berlin is just another unremarkable city in United Europe, it'll still be The Nazi Capital® to be shunned by all good people? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:01 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 23 09:53:28 2014. I've travelled to and through 10 countries. Guess which one I found the least tolerant and the least inviting? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:03 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by DANd124 on Thu Oct 23 10:31:18 2014. People who want to leave also need to fin a country to take them in.I found a list! Though you may want to scratch Greece and replace it with Israel. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:05 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Oct 23 09:44:11 2014. Democratically elected governments will follow the vox populi, if they wish to remain in office. Therefore, it's important to look at the number of antisemitic incidents, even though they are committed by the society's least influential. Antisemitic incidents have been rising in France and have progressed beyond graffiti.Democratically elected governments will not follow the discontented and disenfranchised and washed up. Antisemitic incidents may be "rising" but no one's provided any actual numbers worth getting alarmed over. It's not too difficult to imagine that the National Front may be included in a coalition government in the future. Absent a crisis, it's not going to happen. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:08 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by subfan on Thu Oct 23 06:25:10 2014. No, not really.Yes, really. Any country which has (a) compulsory military service and (b) an actual war of aggression will have at least a few people leave the country out of objection. In fact interviews with those who've moved to Germany... So who conducted these tens of thousands of interviews? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:10 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Oct 23 07:59:32 2014. So you support slavery? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:18:46 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 15:51:00 2014. ... wishy-washy...Srsly? You've never seen them then. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:18:51 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 18:35:52 2014. ...and in every other country. America has a much stronger pro-fascist movement than Germany these days. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Oct 24 06:40:14 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 23 19:26:07 2014. That's a problem in France even worse. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 07:58:26 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:05 2014. Democratically elected governments will not follow the discontented and disenfranchised and washed up...Consider the Republican party's "southern strategy." It emerged after Republicans and northern Democrats passed civil rights legislation in the mid 1960's. The of Lincoln saw an opportunity to gain power even though it meant repudiating the principles on which it was founded. Today they have become the champions of the "discontented, disenfranchised and washed up," what we used to call "white trash." Absent a crisis, it's not going to happen.[the National Front being included in a coalition government] There's an economic crisis in Europe that is similar to that in the 1930's. A decade's worth of job entrants will have a lower living standard than their parents. Plus ça change. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 08:15:02 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:16:53 2014. So you're saying that modern democratic France is the same as Germany at the fall of the Wiemar Republic?No. My observations concerning why Jews are leaving France is the experience of their French parents. There was a lot of antisemitism in 19th and early 20th century France. That antisemitism was exploited by the Popular Front government's opponents. The parents of today's French emigres lived through that period and taught their children their mistakes. As the saying goes, fool me once... |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:22:41 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 07:58:26 2014. Consider the Republican party's "southern strategy."Yes— court the massive power base of racists in the South. Not the handful of thugs spraying graffiti and committing the occasional violent crime; racism was so entrenched with such majority support that lynchings were treated as local festivals. It's not even remotely comparable to modern France. It emerged after Republicans and northern Democrats passed civil rights legislation in the mid 1960's. The of Lincoln saw an opportunity to gain power even though it meant repudiating the principles on which it was founded. That anyone had to fight for civil rights legislation proves that racism was a mainstream position, and not limited to the discontented and disenfranchised and washed up. Today they have become the champions of the "discontented, disenfranchised and washed up," what we used to call "white trash." Are you kidding me? I'm not sure what country you're looking at, but here in the US, the Republicans are the champions of privileged and powerful people who think the oppressed are oppressing them by not submitting to oppression— rich people who think it's so burdensome that they have to occasionally offer pocket change to the people who actually earned the fortunes they sit on; white people who think black people are oppressing them by demanding not to be shot in cold blood, men who complain that women are depriving them of their "right" to have sex without consent, and so forth. America's discontented, disenfranchised, and washed up tend to be the people who were screwed over by conservative/Republican policies, and the vast majority of them aren't white. There's an economic crisis in Europe that is similar to that in the 1930's. Hardly. Europe is better off than America and America is better off than anyone was in the 1930s. A decade's worth of job entrants will have a lower living standard than their parents. But a better standard of living than my parents (or at least most people of their generation) and definitely a better standard of living than me. Comparing the economic malaise of today to the Weimar Republic is absurd. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:24:20 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 08:15:02 2014. pwn3d |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:24:53 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:16:53 2014. LOL! You need to better pick up on context and nuance. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:28:24 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 23 22:31:55 2014. Explain why you don't think so. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:29:47 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 08:15:02 2014. No. My observations concerning why Jews are leaving France is the experience of their French parents.Do you have any cites for either of those assertions? Personally, I've only heard of Jews trying to get into France. There was a lot of antisemitism in 19th and early 20th century France. Luckily, today we have 21st century France. The parents of today's French emigres lived through that period... Parents? Seriously? For World War 2, grandparents maybe. For the 19th century, that'd be great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents. Remember, the original post is about young people— their parents wouldn't have been born until after the Nazis were defeated. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:32:58 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:24:20 2014. I'm trying to work your tendency to jump the gun and prematurely shout "pwn3d" into a joke about PE but I don't have the time right now. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:33:31 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 00:17:10 2014. OF you, yes. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:33:45 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:24:53 2014. OK then, Errapin Stati, exactly what did I miss?*makes popcorn* |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:35:30 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:32:58 2014. You have plenty of time in general, based on your long, drawn out, incorrect posts in reply to me and others. And combine that with you insomnia. And why the hell are you up so early in the morning if you have insomnia? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:35:55 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:33:31 2014. So you support slavery being legal? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:39:39 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:35:30 2014. You have plenty of time in general, based on your long, well-written, accurate posts in reply to me and others.They don't honestly take that long to write. You're a rather easy target. Also, fixed that for you. And combine that with you insomnia. What about you, Insomnia? What do you have to say for yourself? And why the hell are you up so early in the morning if you have insomnia? I have work to do and it won't go away because I haven't slept. Arrangements have been made to adjust my work schedule accommodate my sleep disorder, but the work does still have to be done. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:40:12 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:35:55 2014. OF you, yes. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:40:49 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:33:45 2014. Niasshole, he already replied to you and told you. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:41:30 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:40:12 2014. So you want the 13th Amendment repealed? On what basis? |
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Re: Waves of young Niassholes find a home in Insomnialand |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:43:07 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:39:39 2014. I didn't say that. You lied. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:46:00 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:40:49 2014. And I replied to him, demolishing his, erm, bizarre argument. Do try to follow along.By the way, nice trying to hide the fact that you don't understand what this thread is about. I asked you for an explanation, maybe you should offer one. |
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Re: Errapin Stati Loses Argument, Fcuks With Subject Line |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:47:45 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Niassholes find a home in Insomnialand, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:43:07 2014. Where did I lie? |
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Re: Waves of dolphins find love in Niletstan |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:52:34 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:41:30 2014. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
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Re: Nilet lies, people dies..wait |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:53:18 2014, in response to Re: Errapin Stati Loses Argument, Fcuks With Subject Line, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:47:45 2014. Right there. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:55:05 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:46:00 2014. You didn't demolish him. That's the point. Do I have to explain eVERyTHiNg to you? |
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Re: Sounds Like Someone Needs A Juicebox |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 09:14:29 2014, in response to Re: Waves of dolphins find love in Niletstan, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:52:34 2014. 
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Re: Errapin Stati Lies Repeatedly |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 09:15:12 2014, in response to Re: Nilet lies, people dies..wait, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:53:18 2014. Right where?Oh right, you just told another lie. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 09:16:20 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:55:05 2014. You didn't demolish him. That's the point.Aw, I'm sorry if this thread is beyond your understanding. :( *pat* *pat* Why don't you come back once you've grown up? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 09:49:32 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:22:41 2014. I think you just agreed with me that a democratically elected government does not prevent antisemitism from gaining traction. This is despite your assertion to the contrary. The only argument you used is that the Republicans courting of racists differs from mainstream French parties making alliances with the antisemitic fringe is that American racism is so deeply entrenched, etc, etc. I would argue that antisemitism is as deeply entrenched in the French and European psyches.Today they have become the champions of the "discontented, disenfranchised and washed up," what we used to call "white trash." Are you kidding me?... The answer is yes. I paraphrased your your characterization of bigots. I'm sorry, if I omitted an explicit sarcasm note. Europe is better off than America... Here's a sobering assessment of the current state of Europe's economy. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 10:02:46 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Nilet on Fri Oct 24 08:29:47 2014. I've only heard of Jews trying to get into France.Here's one citation, there are many others. Parents? Seriously? It's probably their grandparents. What's important is that the 1930's experiences were told and became part of the current generation's mindset. Those experiences are real to them. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Oct 24 10:54:56 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 24 08:55:05 2014. He believes that if he says so, "it is" and also believes that if people grow tired of responding to his endless rants and games.... "He won" the argument.He doesn't realize that the last word (which in his insecure self he seems to need for his ego) doesn't equate winning an argument. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 18:15:06 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 09:49:32 2014. I think you just agreed with me that a democratically elected government does not prevent antisemitism from gaining traction.Correct. A democratically elected government alone is not sufficient to prevent antisemitism from gaining traction. This is despite your assertion to the contrary. You misunderstood that post— I didn't say that democracy was an absolute barrier to antisemitism, but rather, that a democratic government will not enact unpopular antisemitic policies just because they're supported by a politically irrelevant fringe movement. The only argument you used is that the Republicans courting of racists differs from mainstream French parties making alliances with the antisemitic fringe is that American racism is so deeply entrenched, etc, etc. I would argue that antisemitism is as deeply entrenched in the French and European psyches. You can argue it if you like but I doubt you could back it up— I'd much rather be in France than be in the South today, let alone be black in the South, let alone be black in the south in the 60s. The answer is yes. I paraphrased your your characterization of bigots. Except that wasn't my characterisation of bigots— discontented/disenfranchised/washed up refers to the politically disconnected; the fringe movements who lack mainstream support. In the south in the 60s, racial equality was a fringe position and the discontented/disenfranchised/etc were mostly black. In (most of) Europe today, antisemitism is a fringe position— a bit more popular, maybe, but still a fringe position. Here's a sobering assessment of the current state of Europe's economy. Unpleasant, to be sure. However, while parts of Europe do seem to be worse than the US overall, it's not nearly as bad as you seem to be implying. How are those unemployment rates calculated? |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 18:15:08 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 24 10:02:46 2014. Here's one citation, there are many others.I suppose they are then. The actual risk of antisemitism is still low, but the fear of something does tend to have only a passing relationship with the actual risk. It's probably their grandparents. Probably. What's important is that the 1930's experiences were told and became part of the current generation's mindset. Those experiences are real to them. Most likely. With my family, though, it's the 1950s experiences. |
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Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 18:15:15 2014, in response to Re: Waves of young Israelis find a home in the former Nazi capital, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Oct 24 10:54:56 2014. He believes that if he says so, "it is"That's a perfect description of Errapin Stati and a fairly accurate description of yourself. and also believes that if people grow tired of responding to his endless rants and games What rants? What games? Links or it didn't happen. "He won" the argument. No, that's up to LuchAAA to decide. He doesn't realize that the last word doesn't equate winning an argument. You're not very bright, are you? Regardless of who "wins" the argument, I'm right and you're wrong. Regardless of who gets the last word, I'm capable of making rational arguments while you throw temper tantrums like a young child. (which in his insecure self he seems to need for his ego) Nope. Just basic SIWOTI syndrome. Plus I may or may not be submitting your quotes to a website dedicated to making fun of crazy people on the internet. And it's fun. You and Errapin Stati are like tennis balls— not very productive, not capable of reason or intelligent though, but a lot of fun to hit with blunt instruments. |
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