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Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 11:34:49 2025

bkreader

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 11 11:56:39 2025, in response to Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 11:34:49 2025.

What is the justification for swapping the south terminals of the B49 and B68 and for eliminating the B2?

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 12:23:16 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 11 11:56:39 2025.

The MTA is claiming B49 buses would not get stuck in traffic in Sheepshead Bay, but there is just as much traffic on Brighton Beach Ave.

For the B2 they are claiming lack of ridership which is due to poor headways and the fact it serves limited destinations and needs to be extended west into Bensonhurst. But the MTA is not looking to increasing ridership by creating new markets,but to reduce service to lower operating costs. That should not be the purpose of a redesign.


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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Snilcher on Mon Aug 11 16:11:09 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 12:23:16 2025.

Also for the B2, the duplication of service with the B100.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 11 17:16:36 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Snilcher on Mon Aug 11 16:11:09 2025.

The B100 doesn’t serve Kings Plaza. There’s also a Lowe’s and a Home Depot a couple of blocks east of the mall on Avenue U. The problem is that since Doody’s closed last year, there are no decent hardware stores serving a large swath of Brooklyn. It’s a PITA to travel to and from Cropsey, Gateway Center, Gowanus, etc. I actually took the B2 this weekend because I needed to buy a new drill. Life will be harder when that route is gone.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 17:38:32 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 11 17:16:36 2025.

It would be better to extend the B2 to Mill Basin and eliminate the B100
.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 11 19:21:16 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 11 17:16:36 2025.

Is there really that much of a market for service between Kings Highway specifically and Kings Plaza? The Brighton Line already has access to KP via the B3. The B100 actually stops closer to that Home Depot and Lowe’s because it stops a long block away at Avenue T, as opposed to the 5 short blocks for the B2 for Lowe’s and another 2 for HD.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 19:59:12 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 11 19:21:16 2025.

The B2 provides better centralized access to Marine Park than the B100.

I think the B2 should be extended to Mill Basin replacing the B100 and the B9 should replace the B41 to Bergen Beach. I would keep the B41 Bergen Beach to the Junction rush hours only. The B9 would provide a new connection to the Brighton line. The B2 also should extended west along Ave P and 65 St to Bensonhurst.


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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Snilcher on Mon Aug 11 20:27:03 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 19:59:12 2025.

The B2 also should extended west along Ave P and 65 St to Bensonhurst.

I always wondered why those two thoroughfares never had any bus service on them.

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(350380)

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 20:39:51 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Snilcher on Mon Aug 11 20:27:03 2025.

It’s because the standard is a bus route every half mile apart. Without service on those streets the buses are every three quarters of a mile apart, greater than the standard, and with service on those streets the service is closer than every half mile. 65 St is only a quarter mile from 65 St. That’s why I suggested 65 St service only stop at even numbered avenues to make all bus transfers.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 12 11:30:53 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 19:59:12 2025.

The B2 is at best one block away from the B100.

Even if you extend the B2 instead of the B100, it’s better off running on Fillmore than U and thus not serving KP.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 12 11:34:11 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Snilcher on Mon Aug 11 20:27:03 2025.

I haven’t wondered about that, what is curious is why they’re wider than the other parallel streets.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Aug 12 15:51:39 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 12 11:34:11 2025.

There is a wide street in the numbered streets every mile except for north if 65 St. I've wondered why 45th or 39 weren't wider.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Aug 12 15:52:46 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 12 11:30:53 2025.

It would serve Kings Plaza on Ave U.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 12 16:51:47 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Aug 12 15:52:46 2025.

And the B100 on Fillmore is better than that.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 08:28:19 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 12 16:51:47 2025.

So let them keep both routes and turn the B100 into a rush route where it makes no stops on the portion it operates one block away from Ave R.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 13 16:38:43 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 08:28:19 2025.

Why would that be better? Eliminating the Fillmore stops?

Eliminating the B2 theoretically allows the runs to be reallocated to the B100 and frequency increased.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 19:30:55 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 13 16:38:43 2025.

It would be better because the B2 along E 36 Street serves the neighborhood with a minimal amount of walking while Fillmore only serves the periphery of the neighborhood. Also, the B100 barely makes any stops outside of Mill Basin.Stops on Quentin Toad are every five blocks while on Ave R it is about every three.

And east of Flatbush,I would have the B9 Ave N which is two blocks from Fillmore and could serve former B100 users.


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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 19:32:34 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 13 16:38:43 2025.

Also, are they proposing to increase B100 frequency with the B2 elimination?

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 14 13:20:02 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 19:30:55 2025.

But it does stop frequently along Fillmore in Marine Park. In any case, what I was saying wasn’t about the B100 west of Flatbush, but east of it. It’s better off running on Fillmore east of Flatbush than serving Kings Plaza, even if it runs on R, 36th, and S west of Flatbush.

So you would have current Fillmore customers walk an extra up to 2 blocks to take a bus that takes longer to get to a local station (no B), as opposed to having Marine Park people walking up to 1 block more.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 14 13:29:05 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 19:32:34 2025.

I don’t think they are, but they should.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Snilcher on Thu Aug 14 14:33:27 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 19:30:55 2025.

But if you reroute the B9 to replace the B41 Bergen Beach branch, it will no longer provide service to Kings Plaza.

The B2 runs on E 36 St for only two blocks, so I guess your point is that it's closer to walk to it for more residents because it runs on Avenues R and S, not E 36 per se.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 14 15:39:20 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Snilcher on Thu Aug 14 14:33:27 2025.

If the B2 is extended west along 65 St, the B9 doesn’t need to serve Kings Plaza, and not too many locals go there now anyway.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Aug 15 16:39:25 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 14 15:39:20 2025.

Well, that’s a different story, but I was assuming the B2 and/or B100 would still end at KH.

But going back to the east Fillmore section, giving them the B9 replaces their trip to an express station with a longer trip to a local station.

Anyway, why would you extend the B2 anyway? If locals aren’t going to KP, why do they need a direct bus to Bay Ridge?

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Snilcher on Fri Aug 15 22:30:42 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Aug 15 16:39:25 2025.

But going back to the east Fillmore section,

As opposed to the Fillmore East? :-)

giving them the B9 replaces their trip to an express station with a longer trip to a local station.

Which reminds me of a decision made by the Queens redesign which confounds me: replacing the 14th Avenue corridor Q20B service to Flushing with the Q76 to Jamaica and moving the Q20B to 20th Avenue, meaning that on the more populated stretch (14th Avenue) what was formerly a moderate-length trip to a common subway/business juncture will now be a very lengthy trip to a farther-away subway station with a longer journey into Manhattan, while the Flushing access is flipped to the less populated (20th Avenue, at least what I gather from the map) stretch.

What were they thinking?


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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Allen45 on Sat Aug 16 16:31:03 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Snilcher on Fri Aug 15 22:30:42 2025.

The Q20B was never used much anyways.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Snilcher on Sat Aug 16 17:10:32 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Allen45 on Sat Aug 16 16:31:03 2025.

As compared with the Q20A? At least the Q20A ran through an area with actual streets, as opposed to the stretch of 20th Avenue where the Q20B ran.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 16 22:17:00 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Snilcher on Sat Aug 16 17:10:32 2025.

You’re flipping the designations. The Q20A was 20th and the Q20B was 14th.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Aug 17 06:32:21 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 13 19:30:55 2025.

I would agree that at least as much as between Gerritsen and East 36th a single route (be it called B2 or B100) should not use Fillmore since it's a "peripheral" avenue at that point and both Ave R and Quentin would be more central to the gap between Kings Hwy and Ave U (with Quentin having several blocks of stores as well -- they almost put up parking meters recently from what I understand).

But it has become clear that the greater priorities of the redesign are both stop eliminations and turn eliminations so they'll unfortunately never go for any unnecessary use of East 36th Street (as easy and fast as those turns may be -- not all turns are equal).

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Aug 17 06:41:08 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Aug 17 06:32:21 2025.

Just wanted to add that Ave R is much more preferable to Quentin despite Quentin's shops because of the public school, double-parking, and deliveries that occur there. Thinking about it again, Quentin isn't that central anymore especially nearest Gerritsen when Kings Hwy has come far enough south.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Snilcher on Sun Aug 17 11:24:43 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 16 22:17:00 2025.

Let me rewrite it, then.

As compared with the Q20A? At least the Q20B ran through an area with actual streets, as opposed to the stretch of 20th Avenue where the Q20A ran.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 17 11:55:28 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Snilcher on Sun Aug 17 11:24:43 2025.

And yet weirdly the Q20A was the busier of the two.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 21 11:37:52 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Aug 15 16:39:25 2025.

The B2 is underutilized which is why the MTA wants to get rid of it. It really only serves one purpose, to serve the Kings Highway Subway station and transfers to the B44 and B49. Extending it westward toward Bay Ridge makes it a useful route with many transfers turning many three bus trips into two bus trips which is more important than direct service to Bay Ridge.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Aug 21 11:40:19 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 14 13:29:05 2025.

But they won’t since the goal of the redesign is to save money, not improve service.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Aug 27 16:49:48 2025, in response to Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 11 11:34:49 2025.

I live 3 blocks from Kings Hwy Brighton.
I've taken the B100 to Kings Plaza when it was there and no B2 in sight or even on the app. B2 is supposed to be a 20 minute headway, they constantly drop a bus and hardly run at that headway (non-rush) when I'm traveling.

Yes it is a two block walk from the B100 to the Mall.

The one thing not brought up here is young employees without a car working at the mall. Long ride on a bus down Utica or Flatbush, the B2 was quick from the Express Subway stop. Now what?

When I worked my part time job (30 years) and had to be at the Mall at 6am. It would be that first departure from East 16th Street at 5:30a that would get me there even on Sundays.

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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Aug 27 16:53:40 2025, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign needs another look, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Aug 27 16:49:48 2025.

Yes, eliminating the B2 is a mistake.

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