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| Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. (343441) | |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Mon Sep 13 11:33:09 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 12 14:33:08 2021. Fascinating historical analysis, as usual. Questions:1. When was Roosevelt Avenue so named, and was it after one of our Presidents or a governor? Did it have a different name upon creation and get renamed later? 2. Do you have any insight about the original Q46 (the one that ran on Roosevelt Avenue, not today's Union Turnpike route formerly known as Q44A)? The lack of bus service in the region surrounding the 90th Street / Elmhurst station is stunning to me. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 11:44:01 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Mon Sep 13 11:33:09 2021. 1. Teddy Roosevelt I would think. The only governors named Roosevelt were the two who later became president.2. The old, shorter, Roosevelt Avenue that ended at Woodside Avenue was named as part of Greenpoint Avenue. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 15:11:05 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 12 07:34:14 2021. I understand that the Q53 is very popular north of Queens Center, and I am not a fan of cutting service back to Queens Center per se, but I most definitely understand why the MTA wants to do that.Consider these factors: The MTA's proposed Broadway bus route between Ravenswood and Rego Park that would duplicate the Q53, the similarly duplicative (M) and (R) trains, heavy traffic on Roosevelt Avenue, Broadway, and Woodhaven Boulevard that surely doesn't help the reliability of such a long and busy route, and that the other 3 Woodhaven Boulevard routes terminate at Queens Center Mall. All that being said, I can most definitely see where the MTA is coming from, even though I understand that such a cut would really suck for the riders. You do have a good point with the route losing its connection to LaGuardia service with such a cut, but that could be resolved by extending the Woodhaven buses to LeFrak City, extending the Q72 to 63rd Drive and Woodhaven Boulevard, or even circuitously extending the Q72 to Queens Center from its current terminal. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 15:24:55 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Sun Sep 12 11:20:53 2021. Good points, in that case then yeah I would simply reroute the Q70 so that it serves the Marine Air Terminal.As for ridership to the Marine Air Terminal, the M60 actually gets some good ridership there, the Q47 and Q48 not so much. I do believe that a rerouted Q70 would be much more popular than the Q47 is, look at how quickly the Q70 took over the M60's spot as the preferred bus route to/from LaGuardia. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Sep 13 15:53:09 2021, in response to Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by William A. Padron on Thu Sep 9 20:16:50 2021. The bus stops probably cost too much to maintain. covid hit the budget pretty hard. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 16:03:30 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 12 14:33:08 2021. Thank you again for these historical gems that give much needed context behind the formation of our complex bus system today.I can't believe that cemeteries used to be such a huge ridership draw that they designed routes that were made just to serve them. A modern day similarity to this is how the LIRR chose to spend some money on rebuilding the little used Pinelawn station during the Ronkonkoma Branch double-tracking project instead of abandoning it like I thought they would. I also remember reading on here a few years back that the Q32 suddenly diverts up 82nd Street because of a then "new residential development" in Jackson Heights that the route's original operator wanted to serve, but this clearly wasn't the case. Anyway, even with the (7) train as well as the MTA steering away from duplicative routes, I think that a Roosevelt Avenue bus route through Corona would do really well (so well, I'm surprised that dollar vans haven't jumped on this market yet), but I agree that it shouldn't be the B24, which would ideally be rerouted up 39th Street/Steinway Street to serve commercial Astoria. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Mon Sep 13 16:21:09 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Mon Sep 13 11:33:09 2021. 1. I am not certain of the origins of the name "Roosevelt" for the new avenue, but I would be fairly confident it was not named for President Roosevelt because at the time of the planning of the avenue, the early 1910s, the president was still alive, having just left office in 1909, and not dying until 1919. There are some interesting articles in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle from that decade, discussing its building, as extension of Greenpoint Avenue from 58th Street to just short of the present subway portal in Flushing (there was initial criticism for ending Roosevelt Avenue in a "field" and not continuing it up to College Point Boulevard and connect it to what was then Amity Street; but, of course, the proposal to connect with Amity Street was accepted).2. On February 27, 1939, Triboro Coach petitioned the Board of Estimate for various amendments to its franchise, and for adding to it a new route along Roosevelt Avenue to be designated “Sunnyside-Corona.” This 4.0 mile route was described in the petition as: “Starting at the intersection of Queens boulevard and 46th street; thence along Queens boulevard to Roosevelt avenue ; thence along Roosevelt avenue to 108th street; thence along 108th street to 50th avenue; thence along 50th avenue to 111th street; thence along 111th street to Bus Fair Terminal; also along 111th street between 50th avenue and Roosevelt avenue ; also along Roosevelt avenue between 111th street and 108th street ; also along 104th street between Roosevelt avenue and Corona avenue; also along Corona avenue between 104th street and 50th avenue ; also along 50th avenue between Corona avenue and 111th street.” James D. McGann, the director of franchises, characterized this route as a temporary to serve the World’s Fair, and not to operate beyond November 1, 1940. The Board of Estimate adopted a resolution, consenting to the operation, at its meeting on March 30, 1939. The foregoing is documented in the April 28, 1939, issue of the City Record. Subsequently, on May 24, 1939, Triboro Coach petitioned the Board of Estimate for making this new route permanent, and not just for the duration of the fair. At this point the route was designated as route Q46 (this time being measured as 4.3 miles in length) , and according to Mr. McGann, the reason for the route was: “The operation of the proposed route between 58th and 83d streets on Roosevelt avenue and between 103d and 108th streets, is presently legalized. The new route will afford the residents of Corona, Jackson Heights and Woodside, a service to the Long Island Railroad, the Independent Subway station at 60th street and Roosevelt avenue and the express station of the Independent Subway at 74th street and Roosevelt avenue. The route will likewise connect with Routes Q-18, Q-23, Q-24, Q-29, Q-33 and Q-38, all of which are presently operated by this company.” At the same times, new routes Q45 and Q47 were part of the same petition. The foregoing was discussed at the October 5, 1939, meeting of the Board of Estimate, and is documented in the November 1, 1939, issue of the City Record. Consent was granted by the Board of Estimate at its November 2, 1939 meeting (see November 29, 1939, issue of the City Record), with the franchise contract signed by the mayor on December 12, 1939. Apparently, the Q46 route was not all that successful, for on August 21, 1952, the Board of Estimate consented to the elimination of the Q46 route, along with the modification of other routes, and the addition of new routes Q50, Q51, and Q52. The amendment to the franchise contract was signed by the mayor on October 3, 1952. (New route Q50 was essentially the Eliot Avenue portion of current route Q38, with its Ridgewood turn-around loop at Metropolitan Avenue. New route Q51 was essentially the Ditmars Boulevard portion of current route Q69. New route Q52 was essentially current route Q69. Had MTABC been more knowledgeable or sensitive to history, it might have renumbered route Q19A as route Q51, and renumbered route Q19B as route Q52. When most recently operated by Triboro Coach, routes Q19A and Q19B were actually programmed, with respect to the issuance of farebox-issued transfers, as routes Q51 and Q52.) |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Mon Sep 13 16:46:18 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Mon Sep 13 16:21:09 2021. 1. I am not certain of the origins of the name "Roosevelt" for the new avenue, but I would be fairly confident it was not named for President Roosevelt because at the time of the planning of the avenue, the early 1910s, the president was still alive, having just left office in 1909, and not dying until 1919.Because the avenues to the north were named after presidents - Polk (37th), Fillmore (35th) and Hayes (34th) - it seems likely that Roosevelt was named for Teddy. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 16:46:26 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 12 14:33:29 2021. The background regarding this racial tension is much appreciated. Considering this happened during the late 70s/early 80s at the dawn of the crack era, I unfortunately can't say that their worries were unfounded, but they were surely overblown. You mentioned Canarsie, which to this day is still a very quiet and decent working class neighborhood that has done well post-"white flight".You can also look at Forest Hills, which has had a busy subway station connecting it to areas like Jamaica and Queensbridge within minutes for decades now, and it remains one of the wealthier areas in the city with a nice little bustling shopping strip along Austin Street. Glendale, Maspeth, etc missed out for sure! |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 17:53:52 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 16:03:30 2021. Back in the 19th century cemeteries were huge draws. Before public parks became common, cemeteries were sites of picnics and such, and this lasted for some time after there were parks. Also, people tended to have more dead relatives back then to visit and honor, given shorter lifespans and bigger families. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 21:33:32 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 17:53:52 2021. Thank you for that kind of morbid, but insightful context. Now that I think about it, the Q67 was referred to as "Q67 Cavalry Cemetery" on the service guide that's on the back of the Queens Bus Map for a long time. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 21:33:38 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 17:53:52 2021. Thank you for that kind of morbid, but insightful context. Now that I think about it, the Q67 was referred to as "Q67 Cavalry Cemetery" on the service guide that's on the back of the Queens Bus Map for a long time. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Mon Sep 13 22:00:51 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 21:33:32 2021. The cemeteries of Queens County drove transit route development. The Q67 was a big route, hitting Calvary, Mount Olivet, and Lutheran . . . and later Mount Zion. And not only did B24 hit Calvary, but also B29 went to the foot of Penny Bridge, at which point passengers walked over the bridge to the back end of Calvary (meeting up with LIRR passengers alighting at Penny Bridge station). The Q54 as well, doing well with Lutheran and Saint John, as well as the newer Jewish part of Linden Hill. Other parts of Queens County, too. Sundays were a busy day for street railways to the cemeteries. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Tue Sep 14 01:17:48 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Mon Sep 13 16:21:09 2021. "New route Q52 was essentially current route Q69." I believe you meant to write Q49.Did the Q38 (which at the time did not include the Eliot Ave. portion) actually connect with the Q46 then? Was it extended from its 62nd Drive / 108th St. terminus to serve the World's Fair, or was it already serving the area near 111th St. and Corona Ave.? I also find the Q46 description confusing. Did it use all 3 north/south streets (104th, 108th, 111th) or just two of them? And where was the Bus Fair terminal? |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Tue Sep 14 01:23:25 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 16:46:26 2021. Regarding Forest Hills, there was a controversy in the late Sixties (during the Lindsay era) over a proposal to build an affordable housing project in the area bounded approximately by 108th Street, 62nd Drive and the Grand Central Parkway and Long Island Expressway. (That was pretty far from the subway compared with the Continental Ave. region.) (White) folks in the neighborhood strenuously objected, for the usual reasons. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Sep 14 14:36:47 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Tue Sep 14 01:17:48 2021. I still don't get some of the new route designations . . . they remain Q19A and Q19B in my mind, and I have to translate (sometimes inaccurately) to the new designations!Yes, route Q38 did connect with route Q46 at 111th Street station. Route Q38 was not “extended” from 62nd Drive to serve the World’s Fair, but had, from its 1934 beginning, served the 111th Street station as a route terminus. It was cut back to 62nd Drive in 1952, presumably as part of the planned upgrading of Horace Harding Boulevard. Service on route Q38, terminating at the 111th Street station, while operating immediately adjacent to the 1939-40 world’s site, was not created specifically to serve the fair, having been instituted five years prior thereto, by Affiliated Bus Transit Corporation in 1934. The Q38 was authorized to operate from the Metropolitan Avenue station (using the same turn-around, via Admiral Avenue, that had been used by the Q67 prior to its recent extension to Fresh Pond Road), to 63rd Road, much as it presently operates (but operating two-way on 78th Street and not using 77th Place), and then continuing from 63rd Road via Apex Place, 62nd Drive, Colonial Avenue (north of the Long Island Expressway the avenue is now the westbound service road), Corona Avenue, and 111th Street to Roosevelt Avenue (turning-around via Roosevelt Avenue, 114th Street, and 41st Avenue). When route Q46 was added to the Triboro Coach franchise in 1939, the Q38 was modified slightly, by adding additional turn-around streets at the 111th Street station terminus. With the same franchise modification in 1952 that eliminated route Q46, the Q38 was also cut back from Roosevelt Avenue to 108th Street (turning-around via 63rd Road, Apex Place, 62nd Drive, 108th Street, and 63rd Road). Thus, the 111th Street station lost two of its three surface transit connecting routes at the same time (assuming actual actual discontinuance coincided with the eliminations from the franchise, and with only the Q48 remaining). The lack of a crossing of the Long Island Expressway at Colonial Avenue was almost certainly the cause of its cutback, and were it to have used the 108th Street crossing thereof, it would have effectively just duplicated route Q23 in doing so. (Even if the Q38 were returned to 111th Street after crossing the expressway, there really is no significant passenger traffic on 111th Street, especially compared to 108th Street.) Many routes were provided with alternative turn-back and short-turn locations, and in that respect the Q46 route description was not unusual. The fair terminal would have been immediately south of 50th Avenue (not quite sure exactly, but near the Terrace on the Park parking lot). |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Tue Sep 14 21:13:35 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Tue Sep 14 14:36:47 2021. Thanks for the great and detailed historical Q38 info. Of course, it ran two-way on 63rd Road until that street and its parallel streets were made one-way some time in the 1960s, which is when it stopped running on Apex Place and began using 62nd Drive westbound to Queens Blvd.That said, don't traffic planners take existing bus routes into consideration when plotting crossover locations for expressways? But I guess something similar happened to the Q17A (Q30) and Q31 that caused both of them to move over from Fresh Meadow Lane to Utopia Parkway at the LIE (and ultimately be removed from Fresh Meadow Lane entirely). The way I remember the new numbers for the Q19A and Q19B -- and I think they did a good job picking these -- is that the Q19B -> Q49 is in the vicinity of the Q47 and Q48, while the Q19A -> Q69 is closer to the Q66 and Q67. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:29:45 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Mon Sep 13 22:00:51 2021. Thank you for the further insight into this.I see the B29 on my 1969 Brooklyn Bus Map, but its route looks unintelligible from the B24 (poorly designed map IMO). In my 1974 Brooklyn Bus Map, I see no B29, but what I presume was a similar route in the B30, which traveled from Kingsland/Meeker to 54th Road/48th Street via Greenpoint/Review, but by then I imagine that route just carried ghosts (pun intended) considering how it was just a cemetery feeder to the LIRR, B24, B48, and Q67 that served no subway stations. On my 1995 Brooklyn Bus Map both the B29 and B30 are nowhere to be found, presumably long gone by then. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:33:17 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Tue Sep 14 21:13:35 2021. Seconded on appreciating the history behind the oddest route in the city in the Q38.On a slightly related note, I do believe that to this day there is untapped demand for a route between Flushing and the 111th Street “Knowledge Corridor”, as well as between Flushing and LeFrak City/Queens Center, and I am glad that the MTA is looking to fill in those gaps with their QT7 and QT58 routes in their redesign. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:35:48 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Tue Sep 14 01:23:25 2021. I haven’t been there in a long time, but honestly I thought those were projects lol. The Pomonok Houses are also nearby, with Q64 buses funneling Pomonok residents to Forest Hills everyday for decades and nothing has happened. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 15 00:35:12 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:33:17 2021. The Q38 is odd only because two parallel routes were linked together at one end. I seem to recall the same type of thing having been done in Los Angeles--in the San Fernando Valley--and I know the same thing was done in suburban Chicago when West Towns Bus Company put together its route 15 (later RTA route 315) on Austin Boulevard, Ridgeland Avenue, and North Avenue.I think that with all the flaws in the Queens bus route redesign, they did get the Q58 (mostly) correct. The problem has long been the meadows between Flushing and Corona, and when the routes were laid out there was only Northern Boulevard (then Jackson Avenue) and the Long Island Expressway (then Strong's Causeway). But now that Roosevelt Avenue has been pushed through (going on almost one hundred years now), it make sends to have the local service take the more direct route via Roosevelt Avenue, and providing more direct service. And with the Long island Expressway service roads avoiding the congesting of Corona Avenue, it makes sense for the limited stop service to go that way into Elmhurst. That said, there's no need for the limited stop buses to then head up to Queens Boulevard at Broadway-Grand Avenue, and better to just keep going westward along the L.I.E. corridor. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 15 10:01:55 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Sep 13 15:53:09 2021. What maintenance? How often does bus stop signage need to be replaced and how often are poles knocked down? The only maintenance needed is snow removal, and do you really think they would clear bus stops faster if there were fewer of them? |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Wed Sep 15 11:14:39 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:33:17 2021. Ironically, it might be easiest to change the present-day Q38 terminus from its current northern end (near Lefrak City) to 111th St. and thence possibly to the Roosevelt Ave. Flushing corridor.A long time ago I had envisioned extending the B59 from its at-the-time terminus at Grand Ave. and 72nd St., to run via 57th Ave to the Lefrak/Corona area and ultimately to 111th St and then the Willets Point station on the Flushing line. But now that the B59 goes to Rego Park, that put an end to that pipe dream. Still, maybe the B59 could be extended along the old Q38 routing to serve the same end. |
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| (343541) | |
Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Wed Sep 15 11:18:13 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 15 10:01:55 2021. What about the Digital Time arrival displays (or paper schedules) for those additional bus stops which we were just discussing in another thread? Aren't those part of bus stop maintenance? |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 11:51:53 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 15 00:35:12 2021. The service roads aren’t continuous west of Queens Blvd, through, so the buses would have to turn onto QB anyway. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 11:57:15 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Tue Sep 14 21:13:35 2021. Remember the old Q44 route? It turned onto the GCP service and then down 150th St to Hillside, but because 150th lacked a bridge over the GCP, northbound buses had to loop around to Parsons. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 12:01:13 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:29:45 2021. The B29 was exactly identical to the B24 and it was signed as B24/29.The B30 was called the “B24/29 Shuttle.” Around 1970 they dropped the bizarre double-number and the B24/29 Shuttle became the B30. There were no actual route changes between 1969 and 1974. The B30 was eliminated in 1995. You might have the first map without it. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 13:49:12 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:35:48 2021. It was a housing project, but it was different from others, with it being structured as a coöp, and then recently it was privatized. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 15 15:14:20 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Sep 14 23:35:48 2021. Pomonok was a LIRR stop for a couple of year in the 1920's I think that is why the ped overpass is there. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 15 15:33:00 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 11:57:15 2021. The Q44 operated along 150th Street, at least in part, because at the time it started operating, Main Street had not yet been extended to Queens Boulevard. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 15 15:35:04 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 12:01:13 2021. Route B24 was Greenpoint Avenue, B29 was Meeker-Marcy Avenues, and then they were combined as B24/29 (much like Q25 and Q34 were combined as Q25/34). |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Wed Sep 15 15:43:11 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 11:57:15 2021. Yes, I remember the old Q44 on 150th Street well. That loop-around was only in one direction and about a block's worth, so not a major inconvenience. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 23:17:25 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 15 15:33:00 2021. I know. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 16 20:23:44 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Wed Sep 15 11:18:13 2021. Paper schedules have been discontinued and the percentage of bus stops with digital arrival displays is a very small percentage of bus stops. They are not being maintained now. So you mean to tell me if they eliminate half the bus stops, then those signs will magically start working? |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 18 16:27:35 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 16 20:23:44 2021. Buses rarely arrived at the scheduled times anyway.Sorry,but just last night,I waited for 45 minutes for a bus,that Bustime kept telling me was 25minutes. What made this crazy was the fact that the bus kept vanishing from Bustime GPS tracking. The posted sign boxes at bus stops were GUESSTIMATES at best.. Traffic Always screws with bus schedules. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:12:07 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 15 00:35:12 2021. All excellent points! I was actually going to propose to the MTA for the new QT7 to skip Grand Avenue/Queens Boulevard as well, and instead travel non-stop on the LIE between Queens Center and 69th Street, rejoining Grand Avenue there.I do still think that the Q59 alone wouldn’t be enough for Grand Avenue though so I would cut the B57 back to Downtown Brooklyn and extend that route to at least Queens Boulevard as well. I never liked the B57’s terminus, it doesn’t even go to the “heart” of Maspeth around 69th Street, it just ends at some diner at the edge of an industrial area. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:22:44 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Wed Sep 15 11:14:39 2021. Good idea! I have a similar idea, except mines would essentially split the Q38 into two, with the Eliot Avenue portion being restructured into somewhat of a Q58 clone.It would start at Ridgewood Terminal, traveling down Myrtle, Forest, Metropolitan, and Eliot before continuing to Flushing using the route you described. I would probably have evening service end at 108th Street since the attractions along 111th Street will be closed then and you’ll have the MTA’s proposed QT7 and QT58 to take you between LeFrak and Flushing, but I feel like such a route could most definitely get decent ridership, or at least more ridership than the QT77 abomination that the MTA proposed. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:24:08 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 12:01:13 2021. Thank you for the background on that! My map is from September 1995 so you’re on the money with that as well. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:25:17 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 15 15:35:04 2021. Oh do I wish NICE would stop with that same nonsense with the “n40/41”. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:27:40 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 15 13:49:12 2021. Thanks! I remember getting to that stop for the first time and thinking that I had to be on guard, but once I saw who was hanging around the buildings I figured that maybe they were just more low key projects like the one in Staten Island off the S52 in Arrochar. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:30:18 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 15 15:14:20 2021. I couldn’t find anything on Google about that 🤔… If the LIRR had a station there then that means that it would be on the Central line right? |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 18 23:46:01 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:25:17 2021. They should also get rid of the N20G and N20H and give them proper numbers. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 19 02:49:23 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 18 23:46:01 2021. How about the Q12 going to Great Neck, and reducing the N20G to operate only at times when additional capacity is required to supplement the extended Q12? Maybe some Q12 limited trips to Great Neck at peak periods. The N20G and N20H labels could be retired, with just a handful of peak-only N20 trips operating through between Flushing and Hicksville, and all other N20 trips operating only between Great Neck and Hicksville. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Sun Sep 19 10:55:08 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:22:44 2021. you’ll have the MTA’s proposed QT7 and QT58 to take you between LeFrak and FlushingI presume you meant QT8 rather than QT7. Btw, the spelling of Lefrak as LeFrak is something I haven't seen in a long time. It strikes me as an attempt by Jewish folks to sound more Gentile (like LeVine). |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 19 12:18:48 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Sun Sep 19 10:55:08 2021. Apologies, I’ve been meaning to say QT6 (the MTA’s proposed BRT version of the Q58) not QT7 this whole time. The Lefrak thing is something my phone autocorrects to on its own for some reason, didn’t pay it any mind until now. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Sun Sep 19 22:04:28 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 19 12:18:48 2021. D'oh. I meant to say QT6 but somehow it came out QT8. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Sun Sep 19 22:08:41 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 18 20:22:44 2021. Or one could restructure the Q38 and Q39 routes so that the southern portion of the Q39 (via Forest Ave. to 61st and Cooper) became part of the Eliot Ave. half of the Q38, and the Q39 from Queens Plaza would proceed (past the Metropolitan M station) via the 63rd Drive portion of the Q38 to Forest Hills. The problem with that plan is that the Q38 and Q39 have vastly different schedules/headways; Q39 service is more frequent than Q38 service, plus it has 24-hour service which the Q38 does not. That wasn't a problem when the Q45 and Q47 were combined, since they had similar levels of service to one another. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 19 22:30:32 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 18 16:27:35 2021. A few years, BusTime told me there would be no bus for 20 minutes so I started walking. Then one minute later, a bus came by and luckily the driver stopped. I told him Bus Time said I had to wait another 20 minutes. He said, why would you trust the MTA? |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 20 03:27:21 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Snilcher on Sun Sep 19 22:08:41 2021. I have a bad feeling that service along Penelope Avenue will soon be a distant memory. The problem with service along Penelope Avenue is that serves mostly medium-density residential areas, but few areas with significant job density save for the Rego Park shopping area, which alone doesn’t generate enough ridership to make the route efficient, neither does the (M) station at Metropolitan Avenue, which has always been shunned by Q38 and Q67 riders for whatever reason. It also doesn’t help that if you’re heading towards Manhattan on the (R) train, you’d have to circle back all the way to Rego Park whereas the nearby Q47 and Q29 routes take a straighter path to the the (R) train.Maybe the community will end up saving some (probably barebones and still underutilized) service along 63rd Drive and Penelope Avenue, but it will never reach its full potential so long as it forgoes Queens Center and “commercial” Ridgewood along Myrtle Avenue, which are the most significant ridership generators in that area. |
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Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Mon Sep 20 11:01:18 2021, in response to Re: Q66 Bus Stops Discontinued Every 4 Blocks Or So., posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 20 03:27:21 2021. My guess is that riders avoid, or undervalue, the M train station because it only goes to Lower Manhattan and you have to change trains to get to midtown or downtown. During the years that I lived in Middle Village and worked in Lower Manhattan, taking the Q38 to/from the M station worked out very well for me, especially because I was guaranteed a seat on the M in the morning.The advantage of the Q47 and Q29 over the Q38 is mainly the connection to the 7 train, plus it's more of a walk if you don't live close to 80th Street or Dry Harbor Road. And of course the Q38 serves Queens Center via its Eliot Avenue half, but you're correct to point out that there's no bus connection to commercial Ridgewood unless you're close to the Q58. |
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