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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 29 23:21:17 2020, in response to S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 29 22:50:27 2020. While not the same thing, did NJT's 319 ever do some long-distance deadheading? |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 30 01:21:55 2020, in response to S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 29 22:50:27 2020. While it’s not as long as the deadhead run you are referring to, the B-4 bus has a similar situation. At one point, the depot was changed (I’m not sure what the old one was) to Gleason in Sunset Pk. Even though the runoff from Shore Rd to Gleason is shorter, the timetable shows the last trip as finishing in Sheepshead Bay and the budd running all the way back to Gleason instead of running back to Shore rd and running off from there. I think the problem is that if the runoff was made a scheduled trip and subsequently the depot was changed and the trip were no longer required, the local politicos would perceive it as a service reduction and demand it be restored even though it wasn’t necessary in the first place. If Suffolk bus were to make it a revenue run and circumstances changed so that it wasn’t needed, someone out there might insist it be restored. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Pelham Exp on Tue Jun 30 06:02:45 2020, in response to S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 29 22:50:27 2020. I believe they stay in Southhampton at the Hampton Jitney garage where the 10C & 10B layup overnight. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 30 08:08:19 2020, in response to S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 29 22:50:27 2020. A couple of buses are assigned to Hampton Jitney, as opposed to Sunrise Coach. The companies are combined for contract purposes.But they must do a lot of deadheading between Greenport and Orient Pt is you try to play bus tracker looking at the schedule. They never did any Shelter Island deadheading. In the old days (until the early 1980's) when service was 4 frequencies per day, and held down by 2 GM Fishbowl freight buses, one was kept overnight somewhere in the Hamptons or Sag Harbor at a trucking outfit lot. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jun 30 09:47:43 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 30 01:21:55 2020. The B4 was at Ulmer Park. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:00:50 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 29 23:21:17 2020. Only during the summer I believe, 1 bus deadheads from Egg Harbor Garage to New York while another bus deadheads from Meadowlands Garage all the way down to Cape May(!). The rest of the year though all runs that start in New York come out of Meadowlands and all runs that start in Atlantic City come out of Egg Harbor. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:09:20 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 30 01:21:55 2020. Good point, I guess leaving it as a deadhead does allow for some flexibility on the operator's behalf. If Twin Forks Transit decides one day that they want to have that second to last trip park in the Southampton Garage instead they would easily be able to do so in this situation.That B4 deadhead that you mentioned is pretty extreme though, normally the MTA isn't adverse to converting runs like that into revenue short turn trips, as you'll see on routes like the M101 or Q44 whose terminals are pretty far from the depots that operate them. The Q44 should really be reassigned to West Farms or Jamaica on that note, but I don't want to get off topic. 🙂 |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:22:33 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Pelham Exp on Tue Jun 30 06:02:45 2020. Thanks for the info. Looking into that on Google Street View at Hampton Jitney's garage in Southampton, you're definitely correct. I hope Darius McCollum doesn't see all those buses out in the open and get any ideas. 😂 I wonder if they ever had to use one of their coach buses on the Suffolk Transit routes, that would be quite the catch. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:40:43 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 30 08:08:19 2020. Thanks for the history behind the route's operation. I can't believe that at one point it only ran 4 times daily seeing how poor LIRR service out there has always been, and how important that route is to eastern Suffolk.If you look at the schedule, you'll see that the first trip of the day from East Hampton to Orient Point has a 60 minute runtime between Southold and Greenport, and even gets passed up by the next trip on weekends. So I'm guessing that the first trip probably comes out of the Southampton garage, and does some kind of a driver and/or bus swap in Greenport. If I were traveling from say Southold to East Marion that would annoy me, but judging from yesterday's ride and couple of rides on the route before it, no one really rides the S92 past Greenport anyway. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 30 18:59:04 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jun 30 09:47:43 2020. That's what I though but I wasn’t sure. In that case the run off from Sheepshead Bay to Ulmer was definitely shorter than all the way back to Gleason. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 30 19:08:16 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:40:43 2020. Either that is a misprint with the times one hour too late east of Southold or else they swap buses at the garage.I rode it from Hampton Bays to Orient Pt and back to Greenport in late September 2018. People use it for ferry connections. Several people got off the ferry with suitcases and took it it their B&B in Greenport. Freight bus modified by Hudson Body: http://forum.bustalk.info/viewtopic.php?p=27499&sid=42e452f45991b34cf384040cd2948486 The North Fork was an entirely different place prior to it being wine country. It was quiet and quaint. Except for Friday - Sunday, most LIRR patrons took the LIRR bus from Huntington until MTA sabotaged the route with their incompetence in 1972. Hampton Jitney has essentially taken over that market ever since while LIRR thinks it is still 1955 and potato fields. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 30 19:12:53 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:09:20 2020. Unfortunately most bus route terminals are not conveniently close to the depots they operate out of. One Bkln route the B37 3 Ave is based at Gleason depot which is virtually in the dead center of the route. That last inbound trip leaves Shore Rd at exactly midnight and runs off from Barclay Ctr and the last outbound trip lvs Barclay Ctr at exactly midnight and runs off from Shore Rd. I do recall when I lived in Wash Hts that the #3 route which terminates at 193 St Ft George ran off back to 135 St/Bway in service where it ran off to the old 132 St (now Manhattanville) Depot. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Pelham Exp on Tue Jun 30 19:28:30 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:22:33 2020. One of the contributors on this board stated that he knew of 1 time a 10C from Montauk broke down and dispatch instructed one of the Luxury Coaches to take passengers on down to East Hampton Vilage. Though it didn't stay in service beyond that. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Jun 30 21:53:22 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jun 30 18:09:20 2020. I'd expect the Q44 to stay at Stengel as many of it's runs will run on and off at Main St-Roosevelt Ave. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 1 22:30:41 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 30 19:08:16 2020. Either that is a misprint with the times one hour too late east of Southold or else they swap buses at the garage.I'm hoping it's the former, because if it's the latter it would make much more sense to do kind of what the S66 does by ending the existing trip at Greenport and creating a new short-turn trip between Greenport and Orient Point. If it's just a driver swap that shouldn't take a whole hour. I rode it from Hampton Bays to Orient Pt and back to Greenport in late September 2018. People use it for ferry connections. Several people got off the ferry with suitcases and took it it their B&B in Greenport. Freight bus modified by Hudson Body: http://forum.bustalk.info/viewtopic.php?p=27499&sid=42e452f45991b34cf384040cd2948486 Those are some really cool photos, appreciate you sharing that. I clearly stand corrected on no one riding it past Greenport, maybe I just caught a couple of lightly used trips. Judging by those photos it appears that the route was originally some kind of hybrid between a Greyhound-type service for connecting ferry passengers and a barebones rural transit route until the eastern end started developing more. Its evolution to what it has become today is truly remarkable. As generally conservative as Eastern Suffolk is, looking at how the 10C and S92 were the first Suffolk Transit routes to get Sunday Service, how they were able to get a second bus put on the 10B, and how they always lobby for better rail service, they surely do value the few public transportation options that they have. The North Fork was an entirely different place prior to it being wine country. It was quiet and quaint. Except for Friday - Sunday, most LIRR patrons took the LIRR bus from Huntington until MTA sabotaged the route with their incompetence in 1972. Hampton Jitney has essentially taken over that market ever since while LIRR thinks it is still 1955 and potato fields. Even Riverhead? I imagine that Riverhead has been what it is today for quite a while with the courts, aquarium, and water park there. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 1 22:36:39 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Pelham Exp on Tue Jun 30 19:28:30 2020. Good call by dispatch, waiting on a rescue bus in Montauk that's coming all the way from Southampton, especially in summer traffic? No thank you. Regardless, looking at that Google Street View of their garage, they had 3 buses (2 if that Gillig Phantom there was just waiting to be scrapped) sitting around in the middle of the day, when the 10B and 10C only require 3 buses combined, so they appear to have a good spare factor, and their buses should be pretty well maintained.Of course all of that goes out the window if the Street View was captured on a Sunday. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 1 22:41:02 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by WayneJay on Tue Jun 30 21:53:22 2020. Which is a real head scratcher. Unlike the Q25 and Q65, I can confidently say that at least half of Q44 riders ride through Flushing, and demand is pretty even on both ends of the route, with plenty of riders taking it between Jamaica and The Bronx. Conversely, much fewer people ride through on the Q20. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Jul 2 00:24:48 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 1 22:41:02 2020. I totally agree in regards to the Q44. Almost makes sense to have it be a split route between Stengel and Jamaica, except that Jamaica depot doesn't have artics. I don't know the rules, but wouldn't it be a huge union issue if the TA wanted to move the Q44 to West Farms since it would be taking work from a Queens division union as well as moving from TA to OA? |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 01:09:33 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by WayneJay on Thu Jul 2 00:24:48 2020. Splitting the Q32 between Stengel (TA) and 54 St (now Quill I believe) (OA)didn’t seem to raise too many eyebrows. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 2 01:56:45 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by WayneJay on Thu Jul 2 00:24:48 2020. In NYCT routes can be swapped no problem even if a MaBSTOA depot is involved. The union(s) might fight it, but might lose in arbitration as they did when the Q32 became Stengel only. MTA Bus however is a whole different beast, which is why some pretty operationally nonsensical deadheads still exist in that company, like the B100 to Spring Creek or BxM6 to Eastchester. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 2 02:31:58 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 01:09:33 2020. It did, but the union lost that battle. NYCT can do whatever they want in that aspect as long as they keep it in NYCT. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Pelham Exp on Thu Jul 2 05:49:07 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 1 22:36:39 2020. The 10B and 10C are using the Spirit of Mobility Vans these days. The 1011 Orion which you see parked along the wall is used on the S92. That one seems to be assigned to that location as its always parked in that garage when not in service. That Gillig Phanton Im guessing is 5041/5042 which was previously used by the 10B and 10C prior to the Spirit of Mobility's arrival. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 2 09:15:14 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 1 22:30:41 2020. When it was Sunrise Coach with 4 frequencies and freight buses, there was no service east of Greenport, and no Sunday/Holiday service at all.I also remember seeing "torpedo" freight buses at Riverhead that came up from someplace on the south shore, either GM or Flxibles. Riverhead had a nice downtown. But no tourist stuff in the area. The LIRR added Road'n'Rail bus service to not only cut rail service to the the RPO train once a day, plus summer Friday and Sunday extras to handle business beyond what a bus could handle, but to keep Greyhound out of the East End. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 2 10:04:09 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 1 22:30:41 2020. I remember to track that bus today. They seem to be still running on Saturday scheduleThere was bus #7004 coming into Southold around 9:25am, got as far as the bus garage, a mile west of downtown Greenport, I zoomed in, and it is parked along the side of the building. No sign of the next scheduled bus. The one after that was #1010 just outside Riverhead on Route 24, but has been sitting still for 30 minutes and counting. Must have broken down At 1005am , there is the next bus #7005. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Jul 2 12:29:35 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 30 19:12:53 2020. M3 short-turns are at St Nicholas & 125th. M4/5 short-turns are at Broadway & 135th |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Jul 2 15:11:41 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 01:09:33 2020. Good point, I forgot about that split. At one point JAM was handling some of the Q44, but I imagine that wasn't an issue. However, to pull the Q44 totally from TA and assign to OA... The way folks have talked about union work/various locals and such... I'd think such a move would ruffle some feathers. Admittedly, I'm on the outside as I've never worked for NYCTA nor have I been in a union. I'm asking because of things I've read regarding the unions. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Jul 2 15:19:05 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 2 01:56:45 2020. I see. Thanks for the info. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 16:24:58 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by WayneJay on Thu Jul 2 15:11:41 2020. It wouldn’t be a total pullaway, just splitting runs between the 2 depots and agencies. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 16:26:53 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 2 01:56:45 2020. When did the Q32 become Stengel only and what did the TWU get in return for the loss of the MABSTOA runs? |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 16:28:51 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Jul 2 12:29:35 2020. Well I’m going back to the VERY early days of MABSTOA. At that time the old 132 St depot was still being used. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri Jul 3 12:22:09 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 30 19:12:53 2020. Yes, I remember that of the M3 and M4. Also, as a child I lived near to West Farms Sq, and I recall many (then) Bx20 runs would operate to 225th St-Bway and then pull in to KB depot.Same with the routes that normally passed through West Farms Square. All of them (then, Bx26, Bx38 and Bx40) would terminate at West Farms Sq then run off to West Farms depot (Bx26, Bx36), and COL depot (Bx40). |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri Jul 3 12:28:00 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 16:24:58 2020. Looking in from the outside... I'm actually suprised they haven't done it at this point. Given the length of the route it seems to a be prime candidate and possibly better use of resources for West Farms to handle some Q44 runs. |
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Re: S92 Deadhead Observation |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri Jul 3 12:35:33 2020, in response to Re: S92 Deadhead Observation, posted by randyo on Thu Jul 2 16:26:53 2020. Would it (at least partially) have been some of the work after 126th St (MAN) depot closed? |
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