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| B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train (323549) | |
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| (323550) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Apr 20 08:34:17 2017, in response to B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by nh153 on Wed Apr 19 22:09:12 2017. Based on current schedules, overnight the B42 is scheduled to pull out of Rockaway Parkway at :00, :20, and :40 past the hour, which is appropriate given that the L train arrives at :15, :35, and :55, allowing a 5-minute buffer (lost time en route on the train, plus people changing vehicles).Likewise, overnight, the northbound B42 terminates at the station 6 minutes before the departure of the L train, perhaps a slightly long but still very reasonable and smooth buffer. During the day, in my opinion the L train runs so often (barring any GOs or irregularities) that coordination with the B42 is largely unnecessary. Even if you scheduled such coordination, it could potentially backfire if the connections are too close. Neither trains nor buses run perfectly on time, and even if you set it up, say, for there to be 3 minutes between the arrival of the L and the departure of the B42, well, how quickly those 3 minutes are lost en route on the L (even just one unexpected event en route can erase those 3 minutes). And if during the day you hold the B42 because there's an L train even 1 minute away, and there is heavy traffic, it may be difficult for that run to get back up to speed for future trips (meaning that future L train riders will be waiting longer because the B42 is still finishing up its previous trip). To summarize, at night it's good to have coordination. But once the L train frequency becomes over 10 tph, as it is for most of the day, it really doesn't matter anymore. |
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| (323553) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Apr 20 10:47:43 2017, in response to B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by nh153 on Wed Apr 19 22:09:12 2017. The Bx15 also runs every 20 minutes north of 149th Street to replace the 3rd Ave el. Nowadays the B15 runs every 15 mins for a good chunk of overnights. |
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| (323560) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Apr 20 17:22:02 2017, in response to B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by nh153 on Wed Apr 19 22:09:12 2017. I took the B42 when I was three years old in 1952 and the last and first stop has always been on the other side of the Belt Parkway with no stop at the pier regardless of what any map shows.I always thought that was extremely dumb and shows the NYCTA /MTA just doesn't care. So in 1978 when I was at the Department of City Planning I spoke to the group working with the National Park Service on ways to improve transit to the Gateway National Recreation Area. I suggested that at least in the summer the last stop be at the Pier. It would require no extra route mileage and would have cost nothing. They asked for it and the dumb bureaucratic response was that it could not be done because at that time bus passengers would have had to wait in an area where there was dirt and there was no money to add sixty feet of asphalt. So the group asked the Feds to pay for it and I do not remember what their answer was but bottom line it was never done. Now traffic lanes have been removed and there is ample safe room for people to wait and still it is not done. The MTA and city keep talking about encouraging the use of bass transit, but refuse to do something so simple as this. Perhaps it is time to ask again just to see what type of nonsense excuse they offer this time. |
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| (323575) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 22 16:42:13 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Apr 20 17:22:02 2017. Now you know why in many of my posts I refer to the MTA planners, or what passes for planners, as a “cesspool of incompetence!" |
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| (323576) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Apr 22 18:00:14 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 22 16:42:13 2017. I haven't seen your previous posts, but I fully agree with you. There are at least a dozen route modifications in Brooklyn that I thought of as far back as 1972 which took the MTA as long as forty years to think of. I have about forty more. So I guess I will have to wait another 160 years until they realize what I knew as long as 40 years ago.Let's see what I proposed in 1972 that was eventually done: B38 extension. B11 extension eastward of 18 Av. B43, B47, B57 western extension south on Jay, splitting B61 into two routes and incorporating B77, elimination of B75, and B1 along 86 Street. (Part east of 25 Av, I recommended in 1975 which they accepted along with other southwest Brooklyn changes I recommended (including elimination of B21, western extension of B3, B36 modification from Neptune to Avenue Z and rerouting of B49 to serve Sheepshead Bay station. I also recommended in 1972 moving the B44 from NY Avenue to Rogers Avenue and replacing New York Avenue service with a new route and straightening B49 to continue north along Ocean Avenue. (Only the B44 SBS was moved to Rogers.) Now with the B41 SBS proposal they are proposing to reroute the B9 to Bergen Beach which I also proposed in 1972. If that happens it will be about fifty years since I proposed that one. |
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| (323587) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 23 08:23:46 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Apr 22 18:00:14 2017. Now with the B41 SBS proposal they are proposing to reroute the B9 to Bergen BeachI hadn't heard this. Is there an official proposal out there? Would Bergen Beach lose service going north on Flatbush Ave? And how would B9 riders take to losing their ride to Kings Plaza? |
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| (323588) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by northshore on Sun Apr 23 08:30:23 2017, in response to B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by nh153 on Wed Apr 19 22:09:12 2017. The B42 goes back to the days of the BMT which provided a free transfer from the Canarsie Line to the trolley to Canarsie Pier. It was actually considered an extension of the subway line.Today I think the "L" train should be coordinated withe the bus. Trains should wait until the bus arrives, and buses should wait until the train arrives. |
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| (323589) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 09:12:56 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 23 08:23:46 2017. No mention was made about Kings Plaza riders losing direct service. There would be a B91 rush hours only from Bergen Beach to the Junction. My proposal would have retained The B41 to Bergen Beach during rush hours. |
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| (323590) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 23 09:48:44 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by northshore on Sun Apr 23 08:30:23 2017. Trains should wait until the bus arrivesThe number of people using the B42 represents a very small fraction of the train riders. The key to reliable train service is keeping adequate and uniform headways along the entire line. Forcing trains to wait for a bus that might be carrying a max of 50 passengers, would wreck service for everyone else using the train. |
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| (323591) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Apr 23 09:55:50 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Apr 20 17:22:02 2017. The MTA and city keep talking about encouraging the use of bass transitDo people fish for bass off the Canarsie Pier? |
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| (323592) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 23 09:59:30 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 09:12:56 2017. Can you link me to the proposal or something like it?If the B9 goes to Bergen Beach, how can it also go to Kings Plaza? |
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| (323593) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 23 10:01:13 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by northshore on Sun Apr 23 08:30:23 2017. Maybe the bus should wait for the train under certain conditions (reasonable confidence that the delay won't mess up bus service for hours to come), but the train should hardly ever, if ever, wait for the bus. |
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| (323595) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 10:48:31 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 23 09:59:30 2017. It won't go to Kings Plaza anymore. I think I saw this on New York Transit Forums. |
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| (323596) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 10:49:32 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Apr 23 09:55:50 2017. No they expect you to hitch a ride on the backs of basses. |
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| (323597) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 10:50:21 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 23 10:01:13 2017. Agreed. |
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| (323602) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 23 17:00:49 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Apr 22 18:00:14 2017. What was the B38 extension? |
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| (323603) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Apr 23 17:10:31 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Apr 20 17:22:02 2017. For years the S103 (today's S78) ran a summer service designated S103s to Great Kills Park, also an NPS facility. On maps it appears as a shuttle from Buffalo and Hylan into Great Kills Park, looping around the parking lots. It ceased operation in 1990, appearing on early 1990 maps but not on the 4/15/1990 map. |
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| (323604) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 23 17:16:49 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 10:48:31 2017. The lack of B9 service to Kings Plaza won’t sit well with Bay Ridge and Dyker Hts passengers wanting to shop at the KP mall. A good solution would be to have the B9 continue along Flatbush Ave to Ave U and turn left along Ave U to get to Bergen Beach. |
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| (323606) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 23 19:12:56 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by northshore on Sun Apr 23 08:30:23 2017. Late nights, sure.During the day,trains run frequently enough whereas it wouldn't matter. The 42 is a short run with enough buses to handle the passenger volume. |
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| (323611) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 23:07:56 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 23 17:00:49 2017. To Metropolitan from Stanhope and Grandview. |
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| (323612) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 23:17:36 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 23 17:16:49 2017. Not that many B9 passengers go to Kings Plaza. It won't be a big protest.Don't forget the B9 never was extended to Kings Plaza. It used to terminate at Ave L and Flatbush for years. Kings Plaza opened in 1971 only the B41 was extended a half block to Kings Plaza when it opened and the B 78 a few blocks from Ralph to East 54 Street. They also ran a shuttle for three years along Utica to Avenue N until the B46 was extended in 1974. Then around 1979 the B9 was extended on weekends to Riis Park for two years. When it was cut back around 1981, it started terminating at Kings Plaza seven days a week. That was a full ten years after Kings Plaza opened. It could be replaced with a westward extension of the B2 along 65 Street. |
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| (323622) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 24 17:52:39 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 23 23:17:36 2017. A B2 extension along 65n St would definitely be interesting, but at some point it would probably have to be diverted to either 59 St or bay Ridge Ave on the 4 Av Subway. |
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| (323624) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 24 18:40:55 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 24 17:52:39 2017. That is one proposal I have. An alternative is instead of making the B82 SBS, split it into two routes, the B82 with local and Limited and terminating at Ralph Avenue. A new route, the B81 from Starrett City, SBS only via B82 route to Avenue P, then Avenue P to 65 Street stopping only at even numbered Avenues to Fourth Avenue to Bay Ridge Avenue to Shore Road and via Shore Road stopping only 77 Street, 86 Street, and two more stops including the last stop at 101 St.Then instead of extending the B2 westward, it could be extended to B 116 Street in Rockaway. |
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| (323625) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Mon Apr 24 21:22:25 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 24 17:52:39 2017. Go across 65th Street, then down to Bay Ridge Avenue, and in the meantime, another route runs up 13th/14th Avenue, so the B64 can be routed out of that area entirely (and run to 86th & 4th either via Cropsey or 86th) |
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| (323631) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 26 17:28:51 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 24 18:40:55 2017. Extending the B2 to Rockaway would effectively duplicate the Q35 but not a bad idea nonetheless. |
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| (323632) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Apr 26 18:47:54 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 26 17:28:51 2017. One should only duplicate the Q35 if it is going to at least consolidate with the Q22.Flatbush/Nostrand to Far Rockaway, and E 16th to Rockaway Park as two separate services, almost budget neutral? |
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Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Apr 26 22:39:55 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 26 17:28:51 2017. Why would it duplicate the Q35? One goes to the Nostrand Line and one to the Brighton Line. They are two distinct service areas. |
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| (323645) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 28 22:16:55 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Apr 26 22:39:55 2017. It would duplicate it S/O Ave S even though it wouldn’t duplicate the entire route and knowing the MTA, it might just consider the duplication of that portion of the line enough grounds to eliminate the Q35. |
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| (323653) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Apr 29 23:32:29 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 28 22:16:55 2017. You may be correct but where is it written that every bridge connecting boroughs should only have one bus route? The Verrazano has two, but Queens to Bronx only has one. Not very fair.Spoke to a former friend of mine the other night who works for the MTA and he tried to convince me that the MTA's primary mission is to balance the budget and since most bus routes lose money they have no choice but to run the least amount of bus service possible which is what I suspected anyway. You wouldn't want to hear my response to him. |
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| (323654) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Apr 30 00:18:40 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Apr 29 23:32:29 2017. Queens to The Bronx has the Q44 & Q50. For Brooklyn-SI, it's only two if you consider the S53/93 as one route (the S93 branches off the S53 and bypasses the entire middle section of the S53 route). |
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| (323655) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 30 00:22:50 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Apr 29 23:32:29 2017. Although I haven’t seen your response, I would imagine that I would agree with it. What is Ironic about the MTA’s cutting of service in may areas is that when FACCO and STS were taken over by MABSTOA years ago, it was done on the premise that the Weinberg management intended to cut service on those lines and the NYCTA subsidiary's takeover was necessary in order to provide adequate service that the privates were unwilling to do. Now that that MTA NYC Bus and MTA bus is in charge, the agency seems to see nothing wrong with doing what it ostensibly criticized the private companies for doing! |
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| (323658) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 30 09:37:38 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 30 00:22:50 2017. That's the problem when the budget people are in charge of service and planning. They forget the true purpose of why government was put in charge to operate transit service. |
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| (323660) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 30 13:30:24 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Apr 30 00:18:40 2017. Okay then, the Bronx / Queens has two. And Staten Island / Brooklyn has two or three depending on how you count. (You can't really count the Harlem River.) So why shoukd Brooklyn Rockaway only have one bus route with more than one considered duplication? |
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| (323661) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 30 13:41:17 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 30 09:37:38 2017. Plus,there is only ONE regular local bus between Brooklyn and Manhattan today.B39. |
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| (323662) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 30 14:02:25 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Apr 29 23:32:29 2017. where is it written that every bridge connecting boroughs should only have one bus route?I looked back in the thread and didn't see any prior mention about bridges, but in any case, I don't think the fact that there is a bridge crossing involved should matter much when asking whether there should be another route that travels with the Q35 between Kings Plaza and Riis Park (or farther). |
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| (323663) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 30 14:17:57 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 30 13:41:17 2017. Which runs terribly. Only 1 bus on the route at a time, not 24/7, and a bus showing up has all to do with bridge traffic. |
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| (323664) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 30 14:47:16 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 30 14:17:57 2017. If they ever do a complete ADA-compliant job with elevators on both sides of Marcy and throughout the Essex/Delancy station, that will be the end of that bus. |
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| (323667) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 30 18:25:05 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 30 13:30:24 2017. An additional route between Bkln and Rockaway might be a good idea if ridership would justify it. The problem is that, on paper, there are other bus routes that go between Bkln and other parts of Queens so the MTA might conclude that there are enough bus lines going between those two boroughs already. |
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| (323668) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 30 18:30:59 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Apr 30 14:02:25 2017. Now that I think about it, I seem to recall reading that the original B2 actually went between Ave U and Riis Pk in Rockaway and was at some point adjusted to its present route. Also over the years I also recall that summer B2 schedules were adjusted to provide Rockaway service during the summer although my recollections of both those variations are a bit fuzzy. |
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| (323673) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 30 19:19:51 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 30 18:30:59 2017. The original B2 route prior to June, 1936, operated from Avenue U to the southern end of Flatbush Avenue.At that time the B2 was renumbered as the B32 Marine Parkway route. And a new and different B2 was created which is the current route. Shortly after the Marine Parkway Bridge opened in July, 1937 the B32 was extended to Riis Park. When it was also extended to Flatbush Nostrand, it was renumbered Q35 and given to Green Bus Lines. Don't know when it was extended to B116. |
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| (323687) | |
Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 1 18:01:10 2017, in response to Re: B42 Buses Don't Seem to Be Coordinated with the L Train, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 30 19:19:51 2017. Interesting. I wasn’t aware of all the permutations the line had. |
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