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| Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success (304919) | |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by fdtutf on Mon May 11 11:39:35 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 11:05:28 2015. YOU CAN'T PROVE SOMETHING THAT HASN'T HAPPENED YET.You really do not grasp the meanings of "proof" and "prove," do you? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Mon May 11 12:45:23 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 10 08:57:15 2015. A check of BusTime will sibstabtiate service irregularities.Yes, but not as much as you claim these service irregularities happen. I took phone screenshots of all the SBS routes exception the M34 SBS+ - - one set on Friday at 8 PM, and another set on Saturday at 2 PM over this past weekend. Friday evening:         Saturday's results:           |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Mon May 11 13:53:28 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by dkupf on Mon May 11 00:58:03 2015. Isn't there a closed entrance at Bedford Avenue and/or Arlington Place that the MTA could've easily reopened? (Sorry, I'm not familiar with the station) |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 13:55:56 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Mon May 11 12:45:23 2015. The bunching is more apparent if up take screenshots of a route map than a strip map.Also on a weekday afternoon or during the rush hour it is also worse. The real question though is how bunching differs from non-SBS routes. I doubt there is any. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 13:58:19 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 11 11:07:12 2015. Okay, so Subchat is not for wide public consumption but Sheepseadbites is?My claims are totally logical. The point is your mind is already made up, so anything anyone says that doesn't agree with you is automatically dismissed. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 14:00:26 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by fdtutf on Mon May 11 11:39:35 2015. No but you can make logical assumptions and the facts are that all my predictions regarding the B44 SBS came true, and so will those for Woodhaven. The more people are learning about the Woodhaven plan, the less they like it. Read the local newspaper accounts. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 14:01:36 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 11 11:27:35 2015. Like Captn Transit. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 14:04:23 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Mon May 11 11:36:50 2015. Maybe not. But he certainly has many other problems which are noticeable from his constant insults and fights with a whole bunch of people not to mention those that he as driven off ths board and those who just make it a policy to just ignore anything he posts. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Mon May 11 16:06:52 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 14:04:23 2015. I think Terrapin just has a low tolerance for BS and ignorance. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Mon May 11 16:17:41 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 11:20:21 2015. The thing is- If ridership goes up later, there is no way to attribute it to the conversion. It is showing the success of the route, sure, but NOT showing success of the route as a result of SBS.You can certainly use today's numbers, but you can really only compare them to BEFORE SBS to show any success/failure. That all said, why people are calling you out on this is that the numbers simply don't show what you claim they are showing. When similar non-sbs parallel corridors are showing similar ridership changes, you cannot make the argument that ridership loss is due to SBS. (Well, you can, but nobody will take you seriously which is the case here.) |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 16:40:15 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Mon May 11 16:17:41 2015. Did you even read what I wrote?I said that there could have been changes in SBS during the second year like better enforcement of bus lanes that weren't occurring in the first year. So if patronage went up during the second year year and not during the first, it would definitely be due to SBS and nothing else. If there are similar losses in parallel routes as in SBS routes, that would mean that SBS are not performing any better better than non-SBS routes and the hype that SBS is better is that, just hype. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Mon May 11 18:02:04 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 16:40:15 2015. Ridership could theoretically go up later due to such changes, but any ridership changes could not realistically be attributed to them.If parallel routes are showing the same drop in ridership it means that whatever is resulting in lower ridership is affecting SBS lines as well. Nobody claims SBS will solve every single problem. There really is no point in arguing as it is becoming obvious that even if Mexico were to detonate nuclear weapons every 20 blocks down first and second avenue, and as a result M15 ridership went down, you'd claim it shows SBS is a failure. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Mon May 11 19:28:36 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Mon May 11 16:17:41 2015. LOL |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Mon May 11 19:30:24 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 16:40:15 2015. If Uber and Lynx offered free rides along 1st and 2nd Aves then if M15 local and SBS ridership drops then you will still consider SBS a failure. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 11 20:55:38 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 13:58:19 2015. Sheepshead Bites is "Sheepshead Bay's News Blog" that I assume is targeted to a wide audience. Subchat is a internet message board targeted towards transit fans and no one else. One is meant for wider consumption than the other. You can prove that you have some critical thinking skills if you can figure out which is which. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 11 20:55:56 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 14:01:36 2015. Who? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 23:52:21 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 11 20:55:56 2015. He has a blog and is often quoted in Second Avenue Sagas. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue May 12 00:03:57 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 23:52:21 2015. I don't read SAS. I've never heard of Capt Transit. Maybe he fits the description I made about the internet giving megaphones to all sorts of people who don't deserve them. But don't start thinking that description can't apply to YOU either. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue May 12 01:33:50 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun May 10 20:55:02 2015. I can't believe you are still alive.. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:15:03 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Mon May 11 16:06:52 2015. Exactly. Almost everyone can see that. Why can't BrooklynBus?? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:15:33 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Mon May 11 10:30:30 2015. Thank you. I didn't catch that he was referring to someone other than his boss. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:18:12 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Mon May 11 18:02:04 2015. LOL! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:18:42 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Mon May 11 16:17:41 2015. Good post. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:19:43 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 11:23:07 2015. Wouldn't matter. You still need to show that it is a quote. I thought you would know that. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:20:29 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 11:26:53 2015. LOL! You think he was sincere!?!!?!?!?!!??? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:20:47 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 11 11:30:00 2015. Agreed. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:21:05 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 11 11:29:02 2015. No you haven't!!!!! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:22:46 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by Edwards! on Tue May 12 01:33:50 2015. That's because you're a moron. LOL! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 12 07:59:22 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:15:03 2015. Because you don't understand the difference between message and messenger. Why would he (or anybody else) consider your point of view when you savagely attack people you don't agree with.Brooklyn Bus presented his interpretation of the facts. You may have a different interpretation. Why would anybody want to spend time trying to separate your petulance from your interpretation of the facts? I come onto the list with viewing preference for last 1/2 day and you're just about the only poster on this thread. You act like it's your job to protect the list from posters with (in your opinion) wrong information. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:26:23 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 12 07:59:22 2015. I try to consider his point of view even with his constant insults, but it is very difficult when his point of view is I am right and you are wrong, idiot, 95% of the time. Plus he isn't satisfied unless he has the last word. Just to see how long he is willing to keep this up, there are several threads where he posted "true" and I replied with "untrue" about six times. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:31:45 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 11 20:55:38 2015. But people come here from all over. Sheepshead's viewers are mostly from the neighborhood and former residents. I am the only opinion columnist, so I may attract a wider audience. But I doubt that the blog has more viewers than some off these transit chat groups. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:33:09 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue May 12 00:03:57 2015. It certainly doesn't. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:35:07 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue May 12 07:20:29 2015. The worlds foremost authority states the facts again. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 12 10:02:38 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:26:23 2015. It's very difficult to deal with an irrational person. It's like banging your head against the wall. So stop banging your head against the wall and stop responding to his messages. You're only feeding the fire.Don't let him drag you down to his level. I've already seen other posters write negatively to you. I find it amusing that there have been times posters have disagreed with me MAINLY because I haven't worked for any transit company. You worked for the MTA and posters still complain. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 10:21:37 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 12 10:02:38 2015. It's very difficult to deal with an irrational person.Those of us who are trying to deal with BrooklynBus agree most heartily. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue May 12 12:57:36 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:35:07 2015. The worlds foremost authority states the facts again.What facts did I state? Or are you lying again? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue May 12 13:35:24 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 10:21:37 2015. I still don't see what the issue with BrooklynBus is, he states some things and you all attack him, he responds with logical explanations and facts, and you all dismiss whatever he says.Sometimes someone will ask for studies and other things as if you all have no critical thinking skills. Everything the MTA or DOT says is not true, there are things such as "spin" and there are also things called "sponsored studies". It's like if someone says "clouds are sometimes grey", you will ask for a weather study or credentials as a meteorologist, when you can simply look up on a cloudy day. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue May 12 13:47:26 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by N6 Limited on Tue May 12 13:35:24 2015. I still don't see what the issue with BrooklynBus is, he states some things and you all attack himNo, that's not true. he responds with logical explanations and facts, and you all dismiss whatever he says.No, that's not the case. Sometimes someone will ask for studies and other things as if you all have no critical thinking skills.No, I haven't seen that. Everything the MTA or DOT says is not true, there are things such as "spin" and there are also things called "sponsored studies".I think I know what you meant to say. So when have any of us disagreed with that? It's like if someone says "clouds are sometimes grey", you will ask for a weather study or credentials as a meteorologist, when you can simply look up on a cloudy day.No, that's a completely inaccurate analogy for what is going on here. An accurate analogy would be that if someone says "clouds are usually grey", we will ask for the data on the number of cloudy/overcast days per year, because we can simply look up and see that there are many sunny days when the clouds are not grey. FURTHERMORE, the weather is different in different locations, even within NYC! So such a general statement is ridiculous to begin with. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 13:48:19 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue May 12 13:47:26 2015. Excellent post. Thank you. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue May 12 13:57:56 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 13:48:19 2015. Thanks. You're welcome. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 15:46:00 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by N6 Limited on Tue May 12 13:35:24 2015. No. N6 Limited is totally correct. If someone says clouds are sometimes grey which is an accurate statement, you will ask for credentials as a meteriorolgist and. PROFF.Your analogy of clouds usually being grey has nothing to do with the proof you say you would ask for. Clouds can also be white. So the data you would need if they are grey more times than they are white which of course would be impossible to prove anyway and the questions you say you would ask are completely irrelevant anyway. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 15:47:10 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 13:48:19 2015. The fact that you agree with this nonsense says a lot about your ability to think rationally. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 12 15:47:29 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue May 12 13:47:26 2015. Horrible post as usual. All sizzle and no steak. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Tue May 12 16:00:02 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 12 15:47:29 2015. But he is entirely correct. BrooklynBus constantly makes absurd statements and backs them up with irrelevant numbers which besides not having anything to do with his points, are usually just blatantly wrong! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 16:12:13 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 15:46:00 2015. If someone says clouds are sometimes grey which is an accurate statement, you will ask for credentials as a meteriorolgist and. PROFF.The reason the analogy fails is that, while all of us can easily verify, from our own experience, that clouds are sometimes gray, your statements rest on unspecified (and seemingly unexamined) assumptions that are very much suspect. Your tendency to simply proceed blithely from these assumptions, rather than identifying them, examining them, and either accepting or rejecting them is a huge part of the problem with your writing. Terrapin, I, and others have attempted to steer you onto a more rational path, but it seems to be a losing battle. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 12 17:11:15 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Tue May 12 16:00:02 2015. I'm done with this thread. It's too difficult to follow anymore. Ad hominem attacks have replaced any sense of intelligent discourse. This thread appears in another transit forum, which thanks goodness is moderated so Therapy Station can't enter. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 17:20:17 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 16:12:13 2015. Why have you never ever asked the MTA or DOT to substantiate all their unexamined assumptions like travel times will improve by up to 35% with SBS on Woodhaven?You have accepted every one of the MTA's unproven assumptions. Yet when I make the most obvious of statements that increased service equates with increased ridership, you question it by asking for proof. The facts are put right before you and you refuse to acknowledge I am correct. The MTA replaces a route from the subway to Country Club and the new route carries one third the same number of passengers per bus, yet you still insist the new route works better than the old one. Only one example. What about the cost per passenger going up dramatically after the attempts by the MTA to make the B48 and B64 more "effective" when those cuts had the opposite effect? Where is your criticism of the MTA or that? You have none because you believe everything the MTA does is correct. You have closed your mind to the great probability that the MTA is constantly making mistakes in their analyses and automatically dismissing anything I say. I really feel sorry for people like you who have lost their ability to think. I can say more positive things about the MTA, than I can say about you. At least they relented in their 2010 plans to permanently eliminate the B4 east of Coney Island Hospital and changed their plan to midday, evenings and weekends, after I presented anecdotal evidence that the buses were heavily utilized at 2 PM. They rechecked their numbers because of me and changed their plan to cut service only between 9 AM and 1 PM. Then they had to do a retraction and completely restore the route and now patronage is steadily increasing while the borough average is down. If you worked there, your response would be that you don't plan by anecdotal evidence and gone ahead with permanently eliminating that portion of the route at all times. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Tue May 12 17:28:53 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 17:20:17 2015. Why have you never ever asked the MTA or DOT to substantiate all their unexamined assumptions like travel times will improve by up to 35% with SBS on Woodhaven?You have accepted every one of the MTA's unproven assumptions. 1. You're overstating your case by a considerable margin. I'm not even familiar with most of the MTA's assumptions. 2. The MTA assumptions that I accept, I accept because they make sense. Yours don't. The facts are put right before you and you refuse to acknowledge I am correct. That's because you're generally not. And you're generally not because your "facts" rest on a body of questionable, if not absurd, assumptions. The MTA replaces a route from the subway to Country Club and the new route carries one third the same number of passengers per bus, yet you still insist the new route works better than the old one. Only one example. I have never insisted that, because I don't even know what routes you're referring to! What about the cost per passenger going up dramatically after the attempts by the MTA to make the B48 and B64 more "effective" when those cuts had the opposite effect? Where is your criticism of the MTA or that? You have none because you believe everything the MTA does is correct. Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. But it's entertaining to watch you flail wildly. I can say more positive things about the MTA, than I can say about you. At least they relented in their 2010 plans to permanently eliminate the B4 east of Coney Island Hospital and changed their plan to midday, evenings and weekends, after I presented anecdotal evidence that the buses were heavily utilized at 2 PM. They rechecked their numbers because of me and changed their plan to cut service only between 9 AM and 1 PM. Then they had to do a retraction and completely restore the route and now patronage is steadily increasing while the borough average is down. If you worked there, your response would be that you don't plan by anecdotal evidence and gone ahead with permanently eliminating that portion of the route at all times. If all that is true -- and, given your record, I certainly wouldn't take you at your word -- then it seems to me that your beef with the MTA is that they won't do your bidding at every turn. I think you want the MTA to behave as if you were in charge of bus planning, but you're not and it won't and you need to get a grip and accept that. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue May 12 22:54:47 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:33:09 2015. I wouldn't be so sure of that. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue May 12 22:55:40 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 12 09:31:45 2015. People come here from all over but they tend to be a singular type of person. OTOH, Sheepshead Bites probably targets a wider range of people, even if they are concentrated geographically. |
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