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| Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure (304919) | |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:22:40 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:54:24 2015. I always use facts and logic when I have the facts.No you certainly do not! The problem with you is anything I say, your response is "prove it." But you have no problem when the MTA claims your trip will take 35% less and offers zero proof to back that up.Wrong. You remind me of one guy I worked for who also asked me for proof when I stated to him that fewer people prefer to walk in the rain than when the weather is nice. He said, "where are your facts to back that up?" You would have asked the same thing.No he wouldn't. Would you also ask for proof if I stated people tend to eat more when they are hungry than when they are not hungry? I think you would.No he wouldn't. Look at that, you're wrong FOUR times in one post. You're unbelievable. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:22:50 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 16:07:04 2015. I agree. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:23:10 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 15:52:24 2015. LOL, you are completely delusional. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:25:43 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by N6 Limited on Wed May 6 14:47:23 2015. You are all off your rockers. Many of his plans make sense but you all have a lack of understanding logic.Wrong. As has been explained to you, close to 100% of his ideas are crap. You don't find it odd that there's only like 2 people that generally agree with him, but 10+ people who disagree with him on this site alone? And many of those 10+ people have formal education/training/employment in Urban Planning and/or Transportation. ....? so.....? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:28:06 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 16:56:31 2015. GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BrooklynBus is an idiot. I wish it weren't so. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:45:57 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by N6 Limited on Wed May 6 21:01:17 2015. I've taken the M60 and not only was it faster than it used to be, but it was pretty quick overall. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:47:04 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 23:40:43 2015. GOOD POST |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu May 7 11:16:09 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by b1bus on Wed May 6 22:41:55 2015. If it's SBS I don't think that policy would speed up service much. You'd probably still be making every SBS stop, and all the doors open anyway. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by fdtutf on Thu May 7 12:37:53 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:45:46 2015. They should have used the same disclaimer as financial analysts that past success does not guarantee future results.You could stand to use that disclaimer yourself. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Thu May 7 12:40:46 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 22:02:14 2015. OWNED |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 16:57:17 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 23:40:43 2015. No one takes you seriously because you quote a rider to prove that SBS is great. Then you dismiss her statement as inaccurate and untrue.And if did compare the M15 to other north south routes, you would find criticism with that too saying it is not fair to compare a bus route with another that also has a subway on the same street. You don't fool me one bit. One bus driver who is probably representative iof other drivers is not enough data for me to quote, but a single bus passenger who you dismiss, is enough data for you to quote. Yes satisfied people don't complain, but for the councilman to state he gets more M15 complaints than all others which includes, housing, education, healthcare, sanitation, crime, etc. is a pretty powerful statement. It shows that the 95% satisfaction number the MTA as been throwing out based on a hundred responses to a one time four year old survey, is pure BS when there are 15 million daily riders. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 16:59:22 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by fdtutf on Thu May 7 12:37:53 2015. Well thank you for admitting now that I have past success. You were disputing that before. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:00:47 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 16:53:05 2015. You don't like my idea that cars should give the right of way to buses pulling out of bus stops? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:03:20 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:22:40 2015. Yeah I am wrong four times because you, the world's most authoritative source says so. And the funny thing is you aren't even talking about yourself. You are now a mind reader knowing positively how others will behave. You are truly laughable. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:04:56 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 22:02:14 2015. I notice neither of you can answer my question. You can only make baseless statements. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:05:56 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:28:06 2015. Look who is talking! The king of idiots. Many more agree with me than agree with you. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 7 17:32:18 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 16:57:17 2015. The fact you can't figure out which statements I accept and which statements I toss out in considering my evaluation of the SBS service based on what regular riders tell me says quite a bit about you. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 7 17:32:33 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:00:47 2015. I haven't seen you write about it. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 7 17:56:44 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:26:40 2015. B44 is the outlier. Everywhere else ridership went up. I never made an assertion that EVERY SBS went up, nor did I make an assertion that fare evasion was the cause of a 4% drop. That said, both are reasonably likely to be true statements. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 7 17:57:12 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:05:56 2015. One person agrees with you. Everybody else disagrees with you. Your statement is an outright lie. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Thu May 7 21:28:52 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 6 08:32:03 2015. [There's NO WAY you were ever a bus planner.]He WAS the head of bus planning — for less than a year, well over 30 years ago. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 7 23:02:01 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 08:18:57 2015. I have used the 44....today,in fact.Waited for a local bus...and I mean waited. It was Peak rush...no bus for a half hour-fourty five minutes. While several SBS Novas leisurely rode by... When a bus did show...it was out of service... So was the next one. I finally gave up...and WALKED to a SBS station. When I finally got there,two buses showed up...an SBS and B44 local,. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 7 23:09:59 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 08:18:57 2015. I have used the 44....today,in fact.Waited for a local bus...and I mean waited. It was Peak rush...no bus for a half hour-fourty five minutes. While several SBS Novas leisurely rode by... When a bus did show...it was out of service... So was the next one. I finally gave up...and WALKED to a SBS station. When I finally got there,two buses showed up...an SBS and B44 local,. Inconsistent service like this seems to be the norm on this route... No problem... didn't want to drive due to parking issues along Nostrand,but next time...its a wrap. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by TheHat on Fri May 8 01:18:31 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 7 23:09:59 2015. Still chicken-shit select. Just a way to, control the game, watching it, but whatever you do, don't correct the problem and the MTA NOT to their job, no we can't have that. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 8 07:39:06 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Thu May 7 17:57:12 2015. Yep. Thanks. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 8 07:40:05 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:05:56 2015. LOL! Not in a million years!! You are completely delusional!!! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 8 07:40:06 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:05:56 2015. LOL! Not in a million years!! You are completely delusional!!! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:35:53 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Thu May 7 17:56:44 2015. +5 |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:41:27 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Thu May 7 21:28:52 2015. Unfortunately, that is still in dispute, as he (nor anyone else) has never produced a shred of evidence supporting that assertion. On top of that, the fact that he has no freaking clue what he is talking about makes it seem highly unlikely he ever held the top post. But it could explain why he supposedly only held it for such a short time. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:42:16 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 7 23:02:01 2015. LOL! If this story were true, and it seems unlikely, it means you wasted well over an hour of your time! LOL!!!! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:42:37 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by TheHat on Fri May 8 01:18:31 2015. Huh? You actually BELIEVE him? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by fdtutf on Fri May 8 10:58:16 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 7 17:32:18 2015. OW N E D Thank you. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Fri May 8 11:01:33 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 17:04:56 2015. Your question is being answered. You just don't like the answer. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by fdtutf on Fri May 8 11:03:03 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 16:59:22 2015. Thanks for the catch! In your case, it would need to read:Claimed past success does not guarantee future results. Because you sure as fuck don't know what you're talking about now. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Fri May 8 12:24:56 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:41:27 2015. You say that as many MTA employees complain about the higher ups, their cluelessness and bureaucracy. And as many posters and riders say that the MTA does things that don't make sense.Perhaps he made too much sense and had too much logic for them. In reference to buses, one of the main things that would speed up bus service is Traffic Signal Priority, but of course that's always the last thing to be implemented if at all. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Fri May 8 12:39:26 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 08:18:57 2015. Do you really attribute the M60's decline in ridership to the Q70? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Fri May 8 13:26:50 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by N6 Limited on Fri May 8 12:39:26 2015. Certainly the most likely explanation. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Fri May 8 14:40:35 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Fri May 8 13:26:50 2015. Their locations and subway connections seem like their ridership would be distinct, no? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 8 15:53:12 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by fdtutf on Fri May 8 11:03:03 2015. Ha. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 8 15:57:12 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by N6 Limited on Fri May 8 12:24:56 2015. No. If that were the case, he would have used that as his reason.Signal prioritization in congested areas of NYC during peak periods raises a whole buttload of potential negative consequences or issues. Far easier said than done. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Fri May 8 16:46:00 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by N6 Limited on Fri May 8 14:40:35 2015. Distinct, but with large potential overlap. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 8 20:19:52 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:42:37 2015. Sure..Unlike you...we actually have some hands on experience with bus operations... Also..I actually Use north Brooklyn bus lines when driving is a negative... especially the 44,since it takes me directly to my daughters business. Nostrand traffic is horrendous, even during off peak travel... forget about parking. Its times like this,when you being an asshole,works totally against you,when it would be wiser to keep quiet and let grown folks speak. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 8 20:31:13 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:42:16 2015. As I said in the other post...There's a REASON WHY I USE THIS LINE. HOW AND What I do with my time is of no concern of yours... Not only that,but the manner of the response you gave is the ramblings of juvenile delinquent on a mission of asshole proportions.. By now,You should have other concerns to take up your time,than constantly act like a fucking asshole to the entire board. By the way...how's the wife...?§} |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri May 8 21:11:17 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by N6 Limited on Fri May 8 14:40:35 2015. I think there's some overlap. Prior to the Q70, I found the M60-N/Q to be quicker than the Q33-E/F/M/R, because of the traffic along Roosevelt Avenue, and the narrow streets in Jackson Heights. Once the Q70 was introduced, that was quicker than the M60.Of course my sample size (in terms of number of trips taken) isn't that large. But that leads to another question: If the M60's ridership loss can be attributed to riders switching to the Q70, then that means that there weren't a whole lot of riders that were actually attracted to the system. (M60 + Q70 ridership did increase, but not by a whole lot) Just some thinking out loud....... The Q70 was operating for about 1/3 of 2013, so to get the approximate daily ridership in 2013, you can the given ridership by 3. Likewise, you can take the ridership loss on the Q33 (between 2012 & 2013) and multiply by 3. So that means the Q70 averaged 2847 weekday riders and 4911 weekend riders. The Q33's ridership loss was 1419 on weekdays and 3225 on weekends. Assuming all of those lost riders shifted to the Q70, that means that the Q70 introduced 1428 weekday riders and 1686 weekend riders to the system (again, this is all approximate). The M60 lost 345 weekday riders, but gained 810 weekend riders during the period of time the Q70 was introduced. It makes sense to concentrate the loss into the period during which the Q70 was operating, which means that 1005 weekday riders were "converted" into Q70 riders. But the M60 still managed to gain riders despite the Q70 being introduced during that year. So now between 2013 & 2014, the Q33 lost roughly 300 additional weekday riders, and approximately 500 additional weekend riders. Meanwhile, the Q70 gained almost 600 weekday riders and over 700 weekend riders. So doing the math, that means that if the M60 lost less than 300 weekday riders and 200 weekend riders, it can be assumed it was because of the Q70 taking a few passengers. But then we have to factor in the Q19 riders (the Q19 saw a gain in ridership after the M60 +SBS+ was introduced). I'm too tired to finish off the math, but in the end, it does look like there was a slight ridership decrease on the M60 beyond what can be explained by the Q19 & Q70. But it doesn't seem like anything too drastic. Now, assuming the MTA's stats are true (like I said, a lot of times, those numbers were off compared to the official numbers they released back in 2009, so always take these numbers with a grain of salt. I'm doing these calculations assuming these unofficial stats are accurate), I'd be curious to see if the M60's ridership decrease was on the Queens end or Manhattan end. The Queens end has crappy local service, with the Q19 running every 20-30 minutes and ending way too early. (Anybody coming home from the Astoria elevated station has to be at the stop before 8PM, or else they're forced to take the M60). On the Manhattan end, while the bus lanes made the corridor more attractive, the splitting up of local & SBS service made it slightly less attractive. Now, you essentially have to pick whether you want the Bx15/M100/101 or M60 if you're just making a simple crosstown trip. Of course, it's not too much of an issue, because both the local and SBS routes are frequent on their own, but remember that on a crosstown trip, the buses are slow, which means that to compensate, they must be really frequent, or else people are going to start walking. Now, the Bx15 saw an increase, but we were making the (likely correct) assumption that the increase was on the Third Avenue portion, not the 125th Street portion. It makes sense that having the longer-distance bus run limited would improve reliability and thus make the service more attractive. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by jasonnyc on Sat May 9 17:13:06 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 7 16:57:17 2015. We don't know how many calls he actually gets. 5% of 15,000,000 is 750,000. If just 1% of those 5% complained, his office would be receiving 7,500 complaints a year, in itself a large number of calls to field. Much as how you want numbers of individual time saved to show success or failure of SBS, you also need real numbers, not percentages, of these alleged complaints to the councilman's office to make any meaningful conclusion with that argument.This is just anecdotal and take it however you want but the UES tends to be a more "pampered" crowd, and as a rider of the M15-SBS regularly, they're the least pleased with POP which I still hear people complaining about. And this too is anecdotal, but I ride the M15 and Bx41 SBS routes multiple times a week and by far service is many times over an improvement. If you ever had to wait in line to board the old Bx41 LTD, you'd see how POP has sped up service in of itself. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Sat May 9 17:39:18 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 8 15:57:12 2015. Signal prioritization doesn't heave to be in the congested zones because it may not help if there is no place for the bus to fit. However I'm thinking of situations where the bus misses the light by 1 or 2 seconds, then we have to sit there.I still have a trip on the Q77 on Francis Lewis Blvd engrained in my head where it was an alternating cycle of sitting at red lights and stopping at bus stops. The signal would turn green and someone would want to get off or on the bus, as soon as the bus pulled away from the stop the next traffic signal would turn red. It was like the perfect set up, there was a stop between each signal. Nightmare. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun May 10 00:05:43 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by N6 Limited on Sat May 9 17:39:18 2015. Signal prioritization doesn't heave to be in the congested zones because it may not help if there is no place for the bus to fit. However I'm thinking of situations where the bus misses the light by 1 or 2 seconds, then we have to sit there.Many signals are synchronized in corridors. You start playing with the signals and you're gonna screw everything up. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun May 10 00:22:32 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 8 20:31:13 2015. Looks like I really struck a nerve. You wasted your time and now you're pissed. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 10 08:54:15 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri May 8 08:42:16 2015. And what gives you the right to call him a liar? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 10 08:57:15 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 7 23:02:01 2015. This is what people have been complaining about all along. Send a quick email to the MTA just for the record because you will only get a form response that they will monitor the route to provide the best possible service. Thank you for your interest and bringing this matter to our attention.A check of BusTime will sibstabtiate service irregularities. |
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