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| (304919) | |
We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 00:17:28 2015 Sheepshead Bites Part 1THE COMMUTE: We know this because 2014 ridership figures are now available. The two metrics the MTA have been using to tout SBS as a success are that ridership has increased and bus trip times have been reduced by 20 percent. However, there have been no statistics whatsoever for the most important metrics: how much time passengers are saving, and how much time other road users are losing. Instead, the MTA and its proponents have been relying on the fact that bus ridership on SBS routes has been increasing during the first year of operation, using the logic that ridership increased because travel times were reduced. However, in most cases, that is no longer true. Bus ridership figures for 2014 indicate that ridership is declining on many SBS routes at a rate greater than the borough average... Sheepshead Bites Part 2 |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 08:18:57 2015, in response to We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 00:17:28 2015. Many of them are declining today, but such is not an appropriate measure. What is an appropriate measure to look at is what happened to ridership WHEN THAT ROUTE was converted to SBS. For the most part, they improved substantially. I see two major exceptions.1. B44 went down. But so did most other nearby parallel routes, so this does not show any correlation with SBS. 2. M60 went down. Obviously due to the new fast and frequent Q70 service established shortly before. BX12 BX41 M15 M34 S79... All major successes. Anyone who actually rides the M60 can see what a success it is too, despite ridership not rising. (only because of the blowout success of the Q70.) (I have not been on the B44, so I cannot comment on its performance with regards to time. All of the others though are major improvements in speed.) |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 6 08:23:11 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 08:18:57 2015. OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 6 08:32:03 2015, in response to We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 00:17:28 2015. THE COMMUTE: We know this because 2014 ridership figures are now available. The two metrics the MTA have been using to tout SBS as a success are that ridership has increased and bus trip times have been reduced by 20 percent. However, there have been no statistics whatsoever for the most important metrics: how much time passengers are saving, and how much time other road users are losing. Instead, the MTA and its proponents have been relying on the fact that bus ridership on SBS routes has been increasing during the first year of operation, using the logic that ridership increased because travel times were reduced.Ok, just stop. Stopping shitting us already. There's NO WAY you were ever a bus planner. No intelligent bus planner worth their weight in statistical analysis and reasoning/logic skillz would ever make asinine assumptions, statements, and conclusions like you do and just did here again. You may be fooling the fine folks of Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, NY, USA, but you're not fooling many of the people here, as well as many of the great minds at the MTA. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 10:06:33 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 08:18:57 2015. What matters is how the route is performing today, not what happened fice years ago during the first year of operation. The M15 ridership took a dive the year before SBS implementation for whatever reasons. All the increase the following year was immediately attributed to SBS. But when you compare M15 ridership in the years before SBS and what it is today, it is significantly lower. How does that show success?How do you conclude the M34 is a major success? As far as anyone riding the M60 seeing what a success it is, my friend rides it regularly and she is constantly complaining of overcrowded buses and difficulty getting around all the suitcases as well as it being slow. So that statement of yours isn't even correct. Until we get actual statistics about people's travel times being reduced due to SBS, no one can say it has been a success. As I have long stated, the true measure of success is that you are helping more than you are hurting, and that has not been shown. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 10:14:09 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed May 6 08:32:03 2015. "The great minds at the MTA?" Now who is shitting who? The great minds can't even figure out how to keep buses from bunching on routes with 20 minute headways. They can't modernize routes designed to serve the pre-World War II generation. They measure walking distances as the crow flies. They are constantly making mistakes that you don't know about because no one is checking their work. They claim to have a Transit forecasting model but they keep the results of it a secret.My assumptions were perfectly logical and the proof is that you can only make accusations, but won't discuss any specific points. Any idiot can make baseless accusations. And if I was never a planner, how did I get the MTA to make the largest and most beneficial bus route changes in their history in 1978? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 6 10:43:26 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 08:18:57 2015. BX12 BX41 M15 M34 S79... All major successes.B44: -4.7% M15: -8.7% M34: -10.7% M60: -3.1% S79: +7.1% Bx12: +2.2% Bx41: +21.6% The Bx41 is year-to-year comparison for the same numbered routes. However, this is not a fair comparison because bus service along this route north of Fordham Plaza used to be duplicated by the Bx55. The Bx55 was discontinued, when Bx41 SBS service was started. This forced all riders along this stretch to use a Bx41 bus. The number of riders on the discontinued Bx55 exceeded the gain in Bx54 riders by nearly 50%. There were other sections to the Bx55 that did not duplicate the Bx41. Therefore, a direct comparison is not possible. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 6 10:53:01 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 6 10:43:26 2015. What do those percents represent - riders or triptime reduction ? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 6 11:02:32 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Joe V on Wed May 6 10:53:01 2015. What do those percents represent - riders or triptime reduction ?Average weekday ridership. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 11:32:42 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 6 10:43:26 2015. Those would be applicable if the lines were made SBS last year. They were not. M15 and M34 both rose after their conversion to SBS, by 5.3% and 2.5% respectively(comparing the full year prior to SBS conversion and the full year after SBS conversion).Almost ALL Manhattan routes went down in ridership this year, so yes the SBS lines in Manhattan also went down. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 6 11:34:07 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 6 11:02:32 2015. So why is the M34: -10.7% a major success ? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 11:35:25 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Joe V on Wed May 6 11:34:07 2015. Because it is +2.5%, not -10.7%. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 11:42:00 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 10:06:33 2015. Addressing your points:1. Before and After is the clearest way to show success/failure. Or if the M15 went down while other north south routes went up, that could also show failure. However when you look at the M1 M2 M3 M4 M5 M7 M10 M11 M20 M31 M100 M101 M102 M103 and M104, they also went down. Are you claiming that is due to them not being SBS. The only Manhattan North-South route which did not go down is the M12, as you can't go down from 0! Obviously ridership is falling steeply in Manhattan, regardless of whether you are looking at SBS or non-SBS. 2. It is a LOT faster than before and substantially more reliable. 3. Are you seriously considering ridership so high that it is overcrowded to be a failure? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Concourse Express on Wed May 6 12:01:50 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 6 10:43:26 2015. Partially true; while the Bx41 +SBS was advertised as the Bx55's replacement, one cannot discount that bus's actual replacement - the Bx15 LTD. That Bx15 ridership is also up suggests that it captured some of the Bx55's ridership too. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 12:17:24 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 10:14:09 2015. My assumptions were perfectly logical and the proof is that you can only make accusations, but won't discuss any specific points. Any idiot can make baseless accusations.You've been told several times, by several different people, that in assessing the success or failure of a specific effort, it's only valid to look at the situation immediately before and immediately after the effort. Going further down the road confounds the picture and you can no longer draw valid conclusions. This is obviously to anyone with a smidgen of common sense, yet you persist in making this elementary blunder. And if I was never a planner, how did I get the MTA to make the largest and most beneficial bus route changes in their history in 1978? Assumes facts not in evidence. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 6 12:53:10 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Concourse Express on Wed May 6 12:01:50 2015. Was the Bx55 Ronan's 3rd Av el replacement ? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed May 6 13:00:25 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 12:17:24 2015. Excellent post. He gets pummeled non-stop in the comments on his blog posts and he has the nerve to come here and say that I haven't discussed the specific points????? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 14:36:26 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 12:17:24 2015. This is obviously to anyone with a smidgen of common sense, yet you persist in making this elementary blunder.*obvious |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed May 6 14:47:23 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 12:17:24 2015. You are all off your rockers. Many of his plans make sense but you all have a lack of understanding logic. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 14:53:38 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by N6 Limited on Wed May 6 14:47:23 2015. I have yet to see a coherent thought come out of BrooklynBus beyond that the subway shutdown was ridiculous. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 15:39:21 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 14:53:38 2015. +10,000 |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 15:48:11 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by TerrApin Station on Wed May 6 13:00:25 2015. You haven't discussed a single point. All you do is accuse. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 15:49:26 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 14:53:38 2015. Then you haven't read many of the columns or your mind is just closed shut. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 15:52:24 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by N6 Limited on Wed May 6 14:47:23 2015. They certainly are.They have their minds made up that anything I say is rubbish because it doesn't agree with their preconceived subjective thinking. The mark of an intelligent person is to listen to dissenting viewpoints and argue intelligently. All they do is accuse because they are not capable of the former which is to think logically and form objective opinions. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 16:07:04 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 15:52:24 2015. The mark of an intelligent person is to listen to dissenting viewpoints and argue intelligently.The mark of an unintelligent person is to deflect criticism onto others rather than responding to it with actual facts and logic. You shouldn't like what this says about you. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 16:07:15 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 12:17:24 2015. You've been told several times, by several different people, that in assessing the success or failure of a specific effort, it's only valid to look at the situation immediately before and immediately after the effort. Going further down the road confounds the picture and you can no longer draw valid conclusions.I now want to do a study to determine if the US Constitution is successful today. Does that mean I need to assess conditions in the US just prior and after 1787? Or do I assess conditions in the US as of 1992 when the last amendment was ratified? Because all of us no that conditions today have remain unchanged since 1992. Anyone with a smidgen of common sense knows that you are making an obvious blunder. Conditions change all the time, and to determine the effectiveness of anything, you use the most recent data. And now you are also calling me a liar that I was not responsible for the southwest Brooklyn Bus changes. The final report is still available at the main Brooklyn library so you can see for yourself how to write a proper report (and my name is all over it) where we disclosed the advantages as well as the disadvantages of the plan, not only the positives as DOT and the MTA is doing with SBS. We were fair with the communities and they appreciated our honesty. We didn't have to ramrod anything through. Incidentally, the MTA made a few changes to the parts of the plan they accepted, and those didn't last very long. One of their changes caused 300 people to demonstrate in the street until the change was reversed. My plan received only one written complaint. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 16:53:05 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 14:53:38 2015. I liked his proposal that instead of limiting passengers to one transfer in a 2 hour period, passengers should be able to make as many transfers as they would like during the 2 hour (or a shorter or longer periods) as it is in many other places around the world. But for the most part, I agree, Brooklynbus offers few reasonable, sensible ideas. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 16:56:31 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 16:07:15 2015. I now want to do a study to determine if the US Constitution is successful today. Does that mean I need to assess conditions in the US just prior and after 1787? Or do I assess conditions in the US as of 1992 when the last amendment was ratified? Because all of us no that conditions today have remain unchanged since 1992.Really? I think conditions in the U.S. that would affect how well our political system is working have changed considerably since 1992, not to mention since 1787. The Constitution isn't the only variable involved. Similarly, with SBS, the presence or absence of SBS isn't the only variable involved. And the further you get from the point at which SBS was introduced, the less likely it is that what you're seeing are the effects of SBS rather than some other factor affecting bus service. GodDAMN I'm tired of saying this to you over and over. Maybe I should just stop and let you stew in your own idiot juices. Anyone with a smidgen of common sense knows that you are making an obvious blunder. Conditions change all the time, and to determine the effectiveness of anything, you use the most recent data. You couldn't be more precisely wrong if you tried. And Lord knows, you do try. And now you are also calling me a liar that I was not responsible for the southwest Brooklyn Bus changes. You missed my point. For easy reference, I have re-quoted your statement below and bolded the portion of the statement that I'm doubting: And if I was never a planner, how did I get the MTA to make the largest and most beneficial bus route changes in their history in 1978? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 18:26:24 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 16:53:05 2015. I did not recall that. If he did in fact say that, then yes, that is another worthwhile idea. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by Outside the Box on Wed May 6 18:50:13 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 11:35:25 2015. How much of this is the rise of Uber/Lyft, Green cabs, fare evasion, and POP machine outage? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 19:07:47 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Outside the Box on Wed May 6 18:50:13 2015. Certainly all are potential reasons for the systemwide loss of ridership we are seeing. CitiBike as well. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed May 6 21:01:17 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 11:42:00 2015. I've taken the M60 it's extremely slow. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 21:13:56 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 16:56:31 2015. Funny that when ridership increases, it is because of SBS not any other factors, but when ridership decreases, then other variables are involved. You can't pick and choose the data you feel is relevant when it proves what you want to prove, then ignore the same data when it shows something you don't like. There is something called objectivity which you obviously not have.You disagree how successful and widespread the 1978 changes were. The only time when more than two or three bus routes changed at the same time were in 1936 when there were half a dozen new and modified routes in Brooklyn. In 1989 about a dozen bus routes were changed in Jamaica but they all involved directional changes due to streets being made one way and the rest were terminal changes. None involved substantial route changes. The third time was in 2010 when the goal was to cut service, not improve it. The southwest Brooklyn changes involved about 11 routes all changing on the same day. It not only simplified the 86 St buses, but allowed you to make a one bus trip from Brighton Beach to Bay Ridge that previously required three buses. It provided a connection between the B64 and B3 that never existed allowing travel between 86 St or Bath Avenue to Avenue U on two buses instead of three. It extended the B11 east of 18th Avenue turning a four bus trip trip B11, B6, B9 and B68 or B49 into a one bus trip via the B11 allowing Orthodox Jews to spread out from Borough Park. It greatly increased bus service between Manhattan Beach and the subways. It provided for simplified routing along Avenue Z. It greatly improved access to Coney Island Hospital which was previously only served by one bus route that only served Brighton Beach and Sheepshead Bay. How many more improvements do you want me to list. Nothing the MTA did inits own can compare. All the MTA changes sacrificed one neighborhood for another needlessly making many trips more difficult to improve others and usually only involved one or two routes. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 21:59:24 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by N6 Limited on Wed May 6 21:01:17 2015. It is a lot faster than it used to be. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 6 22:02:14 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 21:13:56 2015. You don't understand. "Funny that when ridership increases, it is because of SBS not any other factors, but when ridership decreases, then other variables are involved. " is actually a factual statement. When you isolate SBS from other variables, it clearly has resulted in increased ridership. It is objectively a success, yet you cannot see that. Look in a freaking mirror. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 22:17:44 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 18:26:24 2015. He blogged about it once or twice I think. Again, one of his only worthwhile ideas. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by b1bus on Wed May 6 22:41:55 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 21:59:24 2015. It should be ONLY pickup TO airport and ONLY dropoff FROM airport. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed May 6 22:59:12 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 6 10:43:26 2015. You also have to consider that Bx15 ridership went up by approximately the same amount as Bx55 ridership went down (remember that the whole Bx15/41/55 restructuring happened halfway through the year, so around 12,000 riders are now taking the Bx15 LTD instead of the Bx55)In any case, what I find odd is that (according to these stats), ridership on the Bx41 is actually lower compared to 2009. Which is part of the reason why I take these stats with a grain of salt, a little too much variance for my tastes. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:26:40 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 22:02:14 2015. And how do you know that "when you isolate SBS from other variables, it clearly has resulted in increased ridership.... "What ataristics do you have that no one else has that you an make that statement conclusively about every SBS route? Why does the B44 show 4% fewer riders? Do you have statistics on fare evasion that would indicate the actual number of riders is at least 4% higher? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:34:46 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 11:42:00 2015. I wasn't looking at other north south routes. I was looking at the borough average as te benchmark and ridership was down on the M15 greater than the borough average. Add to that, Councilman Ben Kallos stated he receives more complaints about the M15 than any other complaint that coes into his office. That sort of disagrees with the MTA's contention that 95% of riders are satisfied. Add to that an M15 bus driver stating on the site that buses are routinely 30 minutes late at the end ofthe day necessitating overtime.None of that indicates success. A fried of mine loves riding it at 10 PM because it s so quick. What about the rest of the day? Why do I see three or five SBS at a time whenever I check BusTime? Doesn't say much for reliability. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:37:27 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 11:32:42 2015. And try went down greater than the borough average. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:38:55 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Joe V on Wed May 6 12:53:10 2015. The Third avenue replacement was the Limited Bx55x. The Bx55 already existed. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:40:07 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by Concourse Express on Wed May 6 12:01:50 2015. That was why I considered the Bx41, Bx55 and the Bx15 all as one route for my analysis. You can't look at the Bx41 by itself. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 23:40:43 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:34:46 2015. I wasn't looking at other north south routes. I was looking at the borough average as te benchmark and ridership was down on the M15 greater than the borough average.Considering not all bus routes exist for the same purpose, it seems to be comparing the M15SBS to other north-south routes would make for a better comparison than comparing it to every route in the borough. Add to that, Councilman Ben Kallos stated he receives more complaints about the M15 than any other complaint that coes into his office. That sort of disagrees with the MTA's contention that 95% of riders are satisfied. Satisfied people don't complain. Just because a councilman is getting a lot of complaints about a bus doesn't mean that people are not satisfied, just that the ones who are contacting him are. Add to that an M15 bus driver stating on the site that buses are routinely 30 minutes late at the end ofthe day necessitating overtime. One driver? A single driver provides enough data points for you to trust? None of that indicates success. A fried of mine loves riding it at 10 PM because it s so quick. What about the rest of the day? Why do I see three or five SBS at a time whenever I check BusTime? Doesn't say much for reliability. I've taken the M15SBS a grand total of once and it worked fine for my purposes, but I wouldn't use that sample size as an indicator of anything. OTOH, people I know who take the bus regularly, took the bus before the SBS service launched, and still take it today think that the SBS service is an improvement over the old limited stop service. In one case, one of them said the bus was so fast, it was getting from Houston Street to 79th Street in 20 minutes, which I tried to explain to her required an average speed of about 30 MPH not including stops and was therefore probably not realistic. This is why no one takes you seriously here. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:45:46 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed May 6 22:59:12 2015. Same with the M15 which lost or million riders in the two years before SBS, may be partially due to 2 Av construction delays which may have improved when SBS started. But the MTA was very quick to attribute the entire first year increase to SBS and used that to justify all future SBS routes in oter boroughs saying if M15 ridership increased by X amount the same will happen wherever we place an SBS route.They should have used the same disclaimer as financial analysts that past success does not guarantee future results. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 23:54:24 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 6 16:07:04 2015. I always use facts and logic when I have the facts. The problem with you is anything I say, your response is "prove it." But you have no problem when the MTA claims your trip will take 35% less and offers zero proof to back that up.You remind me of one guy I worked for who also asked me for proof when I stated to him that fewer people prefer to walk in the rain than when the weather is nice. He said, "where are your facts to back that up?" You would have asked the same thing. Would you also ask for proof if I stated people tend to eat more when they are hungry than when they are not hungry? I think you would. |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success |
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Posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Thu May 7 01:31:35 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Success, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed May 6 22:59:12 2015. Bx41 was cut back to Gun Hill Road in 2010 |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu May 7 08:05:02 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 6 15:48:11 2015. You still don't get it! I don't need to discus the specific points if they've already been discussed here and in your blog post comments. Why do I have to repeat what's already been said? |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:20:03 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 6 22:17:44 2015. IAWTP |
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Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 7 08:20:39 2015, in response to Re: We Now Have Definitive Proof SBS is a Failure, posted by R30A on Wed May 6 14:53:38 2015. IAWTP as well as with the further clarifications later made. |
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