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| Borough Prefix (296877) | |
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| (296877) | |
Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BusRider on Thu Aug 21 19:40:01 2014 When were they implemented? A lot of old pictures show it was just the route number, was it like that in operations as well? |
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| (296879) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Aug 21 19:49:34 2014, in response to Borough Prefix, posted by BusRider on Thu Aug 21 19:40:01 2014. It started showing up on buses on the early 1970s. By mid 1970s... Nearly all TA/OA buses were sporting destination signs with the borough prefix. The TA/OA made no attempt to replace the side signs to newer roll with the borough prefix. The '72/'73 GMC T6H-5309A/10A were the first group of buses to enter service with signs containing the borough prefix. |
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| (296882) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by gbs on Thu Aug 21 20:54:55 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by WayneJay on Thu Aug 21 19:49:34 2014. In Queens, the private routes had the Q designation as far back as I remember (late 1950's), such as Green Bus Q60 and Triboro Coach Q38. |
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| (296899) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Aug 21 23:23:09 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by gbs on Thu Aug 21 20:54:55 2014. I grew up in Queens Transit territory, Q65,Q25/34, and Q65A The TA had the 17 on Horace Harding, I don't remember when the Q showed up on it. |
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| (296939) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Aug 22 18:43:14 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by pragmatist on Thu Aug 21 23:23:09 2014. I remember the '8 TO EAST 83 STREET' in all caps like that, white on black, on the GM fishbowl buses in Brooklyn. The newer buses after approx 1968 had 'B8 to East 83 Street' mixed case, white on blue. |
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| (296992) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BusRider on Sat Aug 23 13:44:15 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Dan on Fri Aug 22 18:43:14 2014. So if you lived in Brooklyn you just said the 8 and if you were in a different borough you said the B8? |
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| (297062) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 25 12:38:11 2014, in response to Borough Prefix, posted by BusRider on Thu Aug 21 19:40:01 2014. They weren't even implemented at the same time. If you check the Red Book for around 1975, in Manhattan there were routes with just numbers, routes with an M prefix and other routes with a prefix that said "Route" although I doubt the word ever appeared on roll signs.What you had was massive confusion with a half dozen route numbers appearing twice within the same borough. In fact there were three 15s in use in Manhattan, the First and Second Avenue designation which was retained. Chambers Street which was renumbered M22, and the route over the Queensborough bridge which was also numbered just 15. |
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| (297069) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 25 14:49:34 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 25 12:38:11 2014. Chambers Street was the M1. The third "15" was the "15-X" which became the M26 and later (currently) the M23. |
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| (297293) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Sat Aug 30 14:00:39 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by pragmatist on Thu Aug 21 23:23:09 2014. The Q65A made no sense. Nothing to do with the Q65. Glad it was changed. |
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| (297297) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Aug 30 14:43:17 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BusRider on Sat Aug 23 13:44:15 2014. It's very much widespread like that in colloquial conversation, still. You refer to a route by its number, unless the prefix is anything other than what you'd expect it to be, based on what borough you're in, and what mode of bus you're using.Even if you're in Manhattan waiting for an express bus to Brooklyn (BM 1 through BM4) you'll hear people say "I took the 2 the other day but the 3 is better for me" or something to that effect. |
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| (297305) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Joe on Sat Aug 30 18:36:07 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Aug 30 14:43:17 2014. Regarding The Bronx, I have seen photographs of the Concourse buses in the 1930's marked 1 or 2, without the prefix. By 1946, however, before the conversion of streetcars to buses, I'm quite certain that the front roller signs that showed the routes had small B over X in front of the number 10, for example, Riverdale routes. For a few weeks before the conversion of TARS Manhattan streetcars a small M-route number would be stenciled onto the metal X or K or T sign, and there are some photos out there of such marks. By the time of conversion in The Bronx, those stencils were not employed. Paper notices inside the streetcars warned riders of the date of motorization. One day you rode the C car, and the next day you rode the Bx-20 bus.--- So, the Bx and the M were around on the Surface Transportation routes immediately after World War II. --- I recall my surprise when New Look NYCTA buses appeared without the borough prefix. That was the era of the remarkable odds posted on eastbound buses on 34th Street, "16 to 1." I liked those large, clear signs: the route number followed by the destination. Nowadays, the "Via" on scrolling signs often describes a street the bus has already left. |
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| (297306) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 30 19:03:14 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Sat Aug 30 14:00:39 2014. It was apparently easier to set up branches of bus routes rather than new bus routes due to city policy. However, "branch" was interpreted loosely. So because it crossed the Q65, the Q65A was considered a branch of it and didn't need to go through a whole big approval process. |
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| (297309) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Aug 30 19:25:36 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 25 14:49:34 2014. There was a time when the third was "QM15". |
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| (297360) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by nh153 on Mon Sep 1 06:54:48 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 30 19:03:14 2014. I guess that's why there were three Q19 routes: Q19 (still in existence), Q19A (now Q69) and Q19B (now Q49) that also had little to do with each other.And there were several Q44 routes: Q44 (now a limited), Q44A (now Q46) and Q44VP (the VP stood for Vleigh Place, using that street to get students from the Union Turnpike subway station to Queens College, now deleted). I didn't know why these barely related lines had the same route number. But the easy approval process makes sense. |
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| (297365) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by B53RICH on Mon Sep 1 10:17:51 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by nh153 on Mon Sep 1 06:54:48 2014. There once was a Q44B and a Q44FS as well. |
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| (297366) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Sep 1 10:23:54 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by nh153 on Mon Sep 1 06:54:48 2014. Just got home from short cruise, and since I didn't have too much to carry took the crosstown bus on 50th, the F train, and getting off at 71st/Continental took the Q64. After about 50 years of saying 65A I still have to catch myself when I give directions! Also, we had the 17A which I think is more or less the 30 now. The 88 was a great addition along Horace Harding (LIE Svc Rd) |
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| (297368) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Sep 1 11:07:25 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by B53RICH on Mon Sep 1 10:17:51 2014. The Flushing Shuttle, how could I forget....LOL |
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| (297420) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by hound on Tue Sep 2 16:20:37 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by B53RICH on Mon Sep 1 10:17:51 2014. Yeah-the Q44B Malba Shuttle was the shortest route in the system. |
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| (297421) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by TheHat on Tue Sep 2 16:23:29 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by hound on Tue Sep 2 16:20:37 2014. How short was it? I honestly don't know, was it as short as the Q101R Rikers-19 Av route? |
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| (297425) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Tue Sep 2 23:12:26 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by TheHat on Tue Sep 2 16:23:29 2014. The Q44B (Malba Shuttle) ran between 14th Ave and Parsons Blvd via 147th St. to 3rd Ave and the Whitestone Expwy - just under a mile. |
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| (297428) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by TheHat on Wed Sep 3 02:08:01 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by X-Astorian on Tue Sep 2 23:12:26 2014. Yep, shorter than the Q101R Rikers shuttle. Thanks. |
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| (297433) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 07:04:36 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by X-Astorian on Tue Sep 2 23:12:26 2014. What about the Q22A? That was short.Also the B36SS was pretty short. |
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| (297460) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 3 20:26:13 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 25 14:49:34 2014. I do not believe you are correct. I can't find what I need right now. If it wasn't the Chambers Street route it was another route but not the M23 crosstown if it had an X suffix. The routes I was referring to were just 15, M15 and Route 15. One of them was definitely what is now the Q32 that goes over the Queensborough Bridge. |
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| (297461) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 3 22:59:41 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 3 20:26:13 2014. I do not believe you are correct.I highly doubt that, especially coming from you. |
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| (297464) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Thu Sep 4 00:06:06 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 3 20:26:13 2014. "The routes I was referring to were just 15, M15 and Route 15. One of them was definitely what is now the Q32 that goes over the Queensborough Bridge."You're absolutely right about three 15s. 15 - 23rd Street Crosstown became the M26 in the 1974 renumbering and the M23 since then. 15 - Fifth Avenue-Jackson Heights first became the M32 in 1974 and later the Q32. M15 - First & Second Avenue continues as the only Manhattan route with that number. |
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| (297469) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Sep 4 08:38:18 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by X-Astorian on Thu Sep 4 00:06:06 2014. You're absolutely right about three 15s.But not about one of them being Chambers Street and/or not being 23rd Street. 15 - Fifth Avenue-Jackson Heights first became the M32 in 1974 and later the Q32. It was designated QM15 briefly (1972-74?) before it was the M32. |
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| (297473) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 4 10:14:20 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Sep 4 08:38:18 2014. The only thing I'm not sure about is the X. Although it may have been used at some point just not in 1974. I am absolutely certain of everything else in that post. |
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| (297485) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Sep 4 14:43:43 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 25 14:49:34 2014. Under the pre MABSTOA days and even for a time after, there were some duplications of route numbers including the 5 Av Coach Co # 15 and the NYCTA #15. |
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| (297530) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 5 22:46:50 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Sep 4 08:38:18 2014. Yes I made a mistake about the Chambers Street bus.But in 1974, the M32 was definitely the 15. Don't know when or if it was the QM 15, but it wasn't in 1974, just before the routes were renumbered which occurred around the beginning of July. I didn't say it wasn't the 23 Street Crosstown. I only said it wasn't 23 Street if it had an X as a suffix which it did not have. |
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| (297531) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 5 22:49:03 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 3 22:59:41 2014. He wasn't correct. X Astorian confirmed I was correct about three 15s. The only mistake I made is I thought the third route was Chambers when it was 23 Street. |
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| (297542) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 6 23:59:18 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 5 22:46:50 2014. Yes I made a mistake about the Chambers Street bus.Quoted for truth. So were you correct when you said this? "I do not believe you are correct." |
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| (297543) | |
Attn: Spider-Pig and RIPTA (Was: Re: Borough Prefix) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 7 00:00:36 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 5 22:49:03 2014. He wasn't correct. X Astorian confirmed I was correctI'll let Spider-Pig and RIPTA decide that. |
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| (297547) | |
Re: Attn: Spider-Pig and RIPTA (Was: Re: Borough Prefix) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 05:22:48 2014, in response to Attn: Spider-Pig and RIPTA (Was: Re: Borough Prefix), posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 7 00:00:36 2014. I've already commented on that. |
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| (297578) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Sep 7 21:28:42 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 3 20:26:13 2014. I do not believe you are correct. I can't find what I need right now. If it wasn't the Chambers Street route it was another route but not the M23 crosstown if it had an X suffix.Brooklyn: I believe that the route you are referring to was the Yorkville-Wall Street Express. It is listed in the service guide of the 1974 Manhattan Bus Map as running between 91 Street/ York Avenue and Water Street. It is designated as the M23X. It does not appear on the front of the map but it is mentioned in the service guide. The 1976 Revision of the 1974 Map does show route on both the map and the service guide but its designation has been changed to X 23. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (297581) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 8 11:04:49 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 6 23:59:18 2014. Yes. He did not believe I was correct. It was not a statement of fact. |
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| (297595) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 8 22:17:09 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 6 23:59:18 2014. Yes I was. |
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| (297596) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 8 22:18:52 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Sep 7 21:28:42 2014. That sounds correct. All the X express routes initially had a borough prefix and an X suffix. |
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| (297601) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Sep 9 07:24:35 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 8 22:17:09 2014. How so? |
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| (297602) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Sep 9 07:24:48 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 8 11:04:49 2014. You know what I meant. |
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| (297671) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 11 10:42:24 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Sep 9 07:24:35 2014. He stated the third route was 23rd Street and that it had n X suffix.I stated that if it had an X suffix, it was not the 23rd Street route. He was confusing it with the Wall Street Express that had the X suffix. 23rd Street turned out to be correct being renumbered from 15 to 26, but it was not 15X, just 15. So I didn't say anything that was incorrect except that I thought the third route was the Chambers Street route which it wasn't. |
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| (297672) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 11 10:50:17 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 4 14:43:43 2014. Yes and that ended in July 1974 when the renumbering took place. I had a letter printed in the NY Tmes at the time saying that it was dumb to renumber the crosstown routes using the next vacant numbers, like renumbering the 23 Street Crosstown from M15 to M26, when they could have numbered it M23 to match the street name since that number and all the other major crosstown street numberswhere buses operated were also not being used like M34, M42, M59, M72, M86, and M96.In 1984, I made the same suggestion to the Director of Operations Planning at a job interview who in effect told me it was a dumb idea and didn't give me the job. Three weeks later he took my suggestion and renumbered all the Manhattan Crosstown routes just as i suggested and they remain that way today. |
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| (297681) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Sep 11 12:56:22 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 11 10:50:17 2014. In those days the only crosstown route number that matched the street was the M14. I guess it was coincidental |
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| (297690) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 11 14:06:27 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 11 10:42:24 2014. You've completely lost me, and I can admit it. So I'll just have to take your word for it, considering that Spider-Pig is not protesting. |
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| (297711) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 11 22:34:12 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 11 10:42:24 2014. No, I was not confusing it with the Wall Street Express. I was confusing it with TARS. |
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| (297812) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 14 19:13:07 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 11 22:34:12 2014. No, I was not confusing it with the Wall Street Express.pwn3d!!!!!! |
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| (297837) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 15 16:46:32 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by WayneJay on Thu Sep 11 12:56:22 2014. Probably.But why couldn't they thnk of matching all the other street numbers by themselves for so many years? . It makes things so much easier for visitors, so they do not accidentally board a north south bus operating for a few blocks on a crosstown street. In those days also only the Route number and destination appeared on the bus like M26 To First Avenue, or M106 to UN. Isn't M23 Crosstown and M42 Crosstown so much better? No need now for the street name. |
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| (297838) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 15 16:51:49 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 11 22:34:12 2014. You said the M26 (23 Street Crosstown) was the 15X when it was just the 15.Then someone pointed out that the M15X was the Wall Street Express which later became the 15X when all the X suffixes were converted to prefixes with the borough prefix omitted for express buses. Isn't that confusing the 23 Street Crosstown with the Wall Street Express? And what is TARS anyway? |
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| (297840) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 15 17:02:49 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 15 16:51:49 2014. And what is TARS anyway?LOL! The rest of your post can be safely ignored. |
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| (297841) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 15 17:52:08 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 15 16:51:49 2014. Third Avenue Railway System. |
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| (297847) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 16 07:49:16 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 15 17:02:49 2014. Awesome!!!! |
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