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| [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires (260084) | |
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[Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Thu May 10 20:36:20 2012 Video from NBC Washington : # 1 - and - # 2.... which the reporter can not say Orion correctly!Metro is sidelining nearly 100 buses following recent vehicle fires. Two Orion VI-type buses caught fire in the past week. (Orion VI is just one of the models that make up Metro's fleet.) Yesterday's fire happened on Route 50 in Maryland. Last week, an identical bus caught fire on Interstate 66 in Virginia. No one was hurt in either incident. The transit agency is pulling all Orion VI buses from service until further notice, says Metro General Manager and CEO Richard Sarles. "Safety is our highest priority, and this is a prudent step until we fully understand the cause," Sarles said in a statement. "We will do everything possible to minimize customer impact while these buses are out of service." Metro operates a fleet of nearly 1,5000 buses. Replacement buses usually in reserve will take the place of the pulled vehicles, according to the agency. The 94 Orion VI buses operate using diesel fuel and were delivered in 2000. WMATA brought in an outside fire protection engineer last week to help investigate the cause of the fires. - cause of the fire: high pressure hydraulic bypass hose fitting not install properly. - different hoses involved in each fire. - hydraulic fluid caught in fire. - modification is expensive, buses are 12 years old. - Recommended: scrap it and replace new buses. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri May 11 00:43:51 2012, in response to [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by Gold_12TH on Thu May 10 20:36:20 2012. I'll take them. I have a strange affection for the Orion VI. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 11 06:08:07 2012, in response to [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by Gold_12TH on Thu May 10 20:36:20 2012. Give them to New York!!! :D |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 11 07:22:53 2012, in response to [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by Gold_12TH on Thu May 10 20:36:20 2012. Just to be clear, these fires took place a few weeks ago. I'm not sure the Orion VIs have been retired officially, they haven't been in service since the second fire and I think WMATA is planning to change the replacement plans for those buses, retiring them ahead of the 2100 Series Orion Vs and maybe even some of the 1997 Orion Vs. But I don't believe their replacements are even on order yet. The fleet is still meeting its minimum service requirements, they had a "reserve fleet" of recently retired buses so they pulled out 90-100 of those to fill in for the Orion VIs. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Fri May 11 08:57:05 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 11 07:22:53 2012. Which buses were in the reserve fleet? Any Flxibles? |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by flyerD40LFR9710 on Fri May 11 09:02:58 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by RailBus63 on Fri May 11 08:57:05 2012. Orion Vs (4200s) |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri May 11 10:26:52 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by RailBus63 on Fri May 11 08:57:05 2012. There were Flxibles in reserve, but most if not all of them are gone. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 11 10:47:59 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by WayneJay on Fri May 11 10:26:52 2012. When I drove by CET in April right after the Orion Vs got pulled, I didn't see a single Flxible. Don't rely on that report too much, I was focusing on driving, but I don't think I saw any. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Fri May 11 12:36:54 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 11 10:47:59 2012. Thanks for the input, time will tell what was parked there & has been returned to service. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by caine515 on Fri May 11 13:55:52 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 11 06:08:07 2012. New York had them and they were assigned to MCH and MTV depot. Woder why they didn't last or why New York didnt order more(#6350 is in museum status at least) |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri May 11 14:12:48 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 11 10:47:59 2012. Could you see if it was a Metro B or E? I think they were still like a very small group of 9300 series Metro Bs on property. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Fri May 11 15:20:27 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by caine515 on Fri May 11 13:55:52 2012. The Orion VI's were some of the first hybrid buses in the U.S. - they were really experimental vehicles. Orion used the lessons learned to improve the VII design. It would have cost some money to upgrade #6350-6359 to the newer hybrid systems and it probably wasn't worth it to NYCT.Interestingly, the same fate was suffered by their sister buses in Boston - the MBTA operated #5000-5001 for a few years as a test to determine which buses to buy for the Silver Line, but stored the Orions when the decision was made to buy New Flyer C40LF's instead. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri May 11 15:39:10 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 11 07:22:53 2012. How many buses do they have in the reserve fleet? |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri May 11 15:42:27 2012, in response to [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by Gold_12TH on Thu May 10 20:36:20 2012. - cause of the fire: high pressure hydraulic bypass hose fitting not install properly.After 12 years they just discover this, though? Even after giving these buses extensive rehabs and even modifying the exhaust system? At least they were able to find the problem. I'm really disappointed. In the name of safety, I guess it's good. The Orion VIs were certainly unique buses and I certainly have fond memories riding them. At least there isn't a fleet shortage caused by removing them from service. |
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[Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Fri May 11 20:21:32 2012, in response to [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by Gold_12TH on Thu May 10 20:36:20 2012. Metro’s finance committee on Thursday endorsed the agency’s proposed $2.5 billion annual budget and promised a close look at Metro’s pension costs.Union employees of the transit agency do not contribute to their pensions, which are fully funded by Metro, and some board members are urging a change in policy. In fiscal 2013, the cost of the pension program is projected to rise 34 percent to $150 million. The fiscal 2013 budget also includes spending $67 million to buy 95 new diesel hybrid buses to replace nearly 100 Orion VI buses, a model plagued by problems. Two of the Orion VI buses recently caught fire. The budget is expected to be approved by Metro’s full board in two weeks. Last month, Metro approved across-the-board fare increases for riders on rail and bus and drivers who use its parking facilities, despite complaints from customers about poor service and a jump in prices. The increase is about 5 percent but varies depending on how far a rider travels in the system and at what time. The higher fares go into effect July 1. Those increases, along with a $47 million increase in subsidies from local governments, will help close a $103 million budget gap. Richard Sarles, Metro’s general manager, said in a statement that the budget “continues the path of improvements we’ve made in safety and rebuilding our system.” “We are investing more to improve the day-to-day customer experience through increased preventive maintenance of escalators, enhanced bus corridor service and added rail rush hour service in preparation for the Silver Line,” the new rail route under construction in Northern Virginia. The concerns about pensions come as Metro starts to negotiate with Local 689, which represents about 8,000 of its employees, whose contract expires at the end of June. Management has said that workers shouldn’t expect to see a pay increase given that the agency was ordered by a court to give a 9 percent pay increase the past three years. Metro said it has been seeing a rise in pension costs in large part because of changes in the financial markets that required it to put more money into pensions. After the committee meeting, Metro board member Muriel Bowser, a Democrat who represents Ward 4 on the D.C. Council in addition to serving on the transit board, said she’s concerned about the rising pension and labor costs. “We can’t keep paying the costs,” she said. “They’re too high.It comes out of jurisdictions and riders.” She said employees of local governments in the region “have been asked to share more of the pension costs, but that is not happening” with Metro. Board member Artis Hampshire-Cowan, who represents Prince George’s County, agreed. “People today don’t have pensions they’re not paying into,” she said. “I’d like to see Metro come in line with area jurisdictions. Metro is the only major agency that has employees not paying into their pensions.” Board members on Metro’s safety and security committee were briefed Thursday on several recent safety incidents, including the two bus fires, two Metrorail incidents in which brake parts broke or fell off, and a derailment. In one of the bus incidents, a loose part allowed hydraulic fluid to leak onto the engine, causing a fire. In the other, a mechanic attached the wrong hose and put it on incorrectly, causing a similar leak and fire. No one was injured in either case. Metro said the 12-year-old buses have had problems with excessive heat around wheels and exhaust. But “we thought we had fixed those as we went along,” said Jack Requa, head of Metro’s bus division. “We felt the buses were safe. But now . . . it seems better to let it rest and get a new one.” Since the incidents, Metro has taken its nearly 100 Orion VI buses out of service and plans to get rid of them and buy hybrid diesel buses by New Flyer. The new batch of buses is expected to arrive in the fall, if the final budget is approved. Metro safety officials said “mechanical fatigue” is to blame for brake parts that fractured on a 3000 series rail car and a similar brake part that fell off a 2000 series rail car on the Orange Line. Both incidents occurred in January, and no one was injured in either case. The derailment last month, in Rosslyn, occurred because a technician failed to check whether a switch had been properly installed. Metro officials said. James Dougherty, Metro’s chief safety officer, told the board that the technician “did not recall if he checked” a clamp to secure the switchpoint. Switches are important because they send trains in the proper direction. Dan Stessel, Metro’s chief spokesman, said the technician “no longer works” for the agency. ---http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/metro-approves-budget-raises-questions-about-fully-funded-pensions/2012/05/10/gIQAi59oGU_story.html |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 11 21:13:14 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by WayneJay on Fri May 11 14:12:48 2012. Why would WMATA have gotten rid of the Metro-Bs before the Es, however? Those Metro-Bs were over 20 years old. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by Flxible4life on Sat May 12 09:19:54 2012, in response to [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri May 11 20:21:32 2012. I hope WMATA have some reserve Flxible Metro "E" buses on their lot. I would like to see them rolling out on the streets in the year 2012. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sat May 12 10:06:39 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 11 21:13:14 2012. Why would WMATA have gotten rid of the Metro-Bs before the Es, however? Those Metro-Bs were over 20 years old.I'm thinking you meant why would some Metro Bs outlast some of the Es. The groups pretty much did retire in order, but WMATA had a number of Metro Bs in storage when they started retiring the Metro Es. For one reason or another (I don't know why), it seems that a few Metro Bs remained on property after the Metro Es were gone. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Sat May 12 10:19:34 2012, in response to [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri May 11 20:21:32 2012. Buying replacement buses now and having them delivered in the fall sounds awfully quick to me. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat May 12 17:09:00 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires, posted by WayneJay on Fri May 11 14:12:48 2012. I honestly couldn't tell. The Orion VIs stood out and I was looking for them anyway. I didn't really get a good enough of a look to see what else was there. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat May 12 17:11:14 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by RailBus63 on Sat May 12 10:19:34 2012. They might jump on someone else's order, expand one of their own, or the buses were already ordered and they are just going to use them to retire the Orion VIs instead of what they were originally meant to replace. It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to have them arrive in the fall. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Sat May 12 19:05:43 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat May 12 17:11:14 2012. It only makes sense if either the order was already placed (likely), or somebody else cancelled an order that NFI was already building (not likely since there would probably be news about it). North American bus builders just don't turn around orders in three to four months, no matter how good a customer somebody is. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by TonyG on Sat May 12 22:32:48 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by RailBus63 on Sat May 12 19:05:43 2012. They probably are just going to delay retiring Orion Vs. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 10:18:58 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by Flxible4life on Sat May 12 09:19:54 2012. That would be incredibly awesome! I think, though, that the 42/43/4400s that have been getting replaced by the new Xcelsiors already replaced the Flxibles in the Ready-Reserve fleet.How many other systems have a reserve fleet? I don't think SEPTA does. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 10:26:37 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by RailBus63 on Sat May 12 19:05:43 2012. Isn't another order of Xcelsiors on the way? I'm sure the older Orion Vs can hang on for another few years while WMATA makes another order (or expands the order) to replace the buses after the Orion VIs are gone. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Sun May 13 10:50:34 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 10:26:37 2012. The WMATA roster on the CPTDB wiki page shows 15 Xcelsiors on order. I could see the authority making a big show of receiving these buses as 'replacements' for the O6's and quietly keeping those 4200-4400's in service until the real replacement order arrives. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 13 11:31:16 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 10:18:58 2012. I'm not sure when WMATA started keeping a reserve fleet but I think it is relatively recent. It has paid off on other occasions too, this isn't the first IIRC. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by Flxible4life on Sun May 13 13:29:38 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 13 11:31:16 2012. It would make sense that other big transit operations keep a reserve fleet just in case of mishaps with current buses. Case in point, NJ Transit with their recall of certain NABIs. They were lucky to have those RTSs that were sitting in the lot across from Meadowlands Garage. They were being replace by the Nabi 416s. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by Flxible4life on Sun May 13 13:37:23 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by RailBus63 on Sun May 13 10:50:34 2012. Well, if they could keep those Flxile Metro Bs in service for 20 years then they can push the 1997 Orion Vs for a few months. At least they keep their bus fleet in good condition. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 14:42:19 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 13 11:31:16 2012. IIRC I think John Catoe set one up with the Flxibles around 2008 or so, when transit ridership around the nation was starting to boom because gas prices were rising at an incredible rate. I think reserve fleet allowed WMATA to retired the somewhat trouble-prone 9600s as the lower mileage Metro Bs were put into service in their place. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 14:43:25 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by Flxible4life on Sun May 13 13:37:23 2012. The 1997 Orion Vs seem to have plenty of life in them! |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sun May 13 17:17:18 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 13 11:31:16 2012. My understadnign is that WMATA has had a reserve fleet in the past. Back when NYCTA borrowed/rented the 150 WMATA buses, I recall reading that they were part of WMATA's reserve fleet. I remember the article stating that the buses were in storage and the week or so prior to them heading to NYC, WMATA mechanics were working on the buses to get them ready. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sun May 13 17:20:41 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 14:43:25 2012. Agreed, but they were workhorses in the most demanding areas from day one and it's definitely showing. I saw 2 of them on the road today. |
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Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article} |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun May 13 21:38:19 2012, in response to Re: [Washington] Metro Retires ALL Orion VI Buses After Two Fires...{better article}, posted by WayneJay on Sun May 13 17:17:18 2012. Oh wow! |
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