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| Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service (105109) | |
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| (106035) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 12:39:54 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 00:20:54 2008. Hey, what's YOUR commute like? |
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| (106037) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 10 12:57:46 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 12:38:10 2008. For a lot of city residents, young and old, short and long term, the subway, no matter how clean, efficient, and safe it has become since or will become in the future, will always be stuck in their minds as it existed in the 1970's, as that is how it is STILL portrayed in popular culture.Circa 2008, the subway is a lot safer (still not as safe as many other systems) but trains have gotten progressively slower and more overcrowded. Everyday there is some delay or disruption. A week ago I was doing temp work in East Midtown (I live in southeast Queens). I took the X63 straight there and walked two blocks to the job site. The total travel time was about 50 minutes. Had I taken the local bus and subway then I would have to stand on the bus and the train. The train probably wouldn't have AC since the cars are over 40 years old. It would crawl from Woodhaven all the way to Queens Plaza. |
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| (106038) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:09:32 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 07:11:30 2008. Please post source info for the $10 figure. I'd like to see it.I pay 150% more for my ride than someone taking a local bus. Both routes are 24 miles long. The local bus carries 40 passengers, the x-bus 60. Both routes rul to 100% capacity 95% of the time they are operating. The x-bus uses 4g of fuel for the trip, the local bus, 3g of fuel. (estimates based on a figure of 6mpg for an MCI Coach, 8mpg for a standard transit coach) The drivers are at the same pay rate. Other than the difference in fuel use, where exactly is the additional subsidy? Am I leaving anything obvious out? |
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| (106039) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:14:55 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 07:04:41 2008. I agree that the MCI coaches are a bit of overkill for the service, especially since they are dedicated to x-bus service. But you'd need top replace them with buses of equal seating capacity. |
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| (106040) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:16:33 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 00:38:36 2008. Congratulations on being even more of an idiot than the guy with the banana fetish. |
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| (106041) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:18:02 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 07:15:30 2008. The state, city, and federal governments all disagree with you. |
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| (106042) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:19:23 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 00:43:56 2008. You're wrong there, and I'd bet a years salary on the opposite happening. |
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| (106043) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:24:11 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:16:33 2008. Nope. |
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| (106044) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 10 13:25:05 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:18:02 2008. IAWTP |
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| (106045) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:26:31 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 10 12:09:06 2008. Incorrect. I have stated what my compromise would be but you, in your infinite idiocy, continue to ignore them. Then you post lies about what I've said. That should go over real well for you as a life skill. And it's quite funny too. |
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| (106047) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:27:08 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:14:55 2008. Why equal seating capacity? Is there evidence that such a capacity is needed and cost effective, etc.? |
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| (106048) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:30:15 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:18:02 2008. 1. that's not true. i see now evidence of the federal gov't supporting it. If there is, please show it.2. i was stating my opinion. it doesn't matter what the gov't thinks. the fact is that express bus riders are being subsidized a lot more. that's a fact. and it's perfectly ok to not like that. |
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| (106049) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:31:04 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 10 12:16:07 2008. you're so funny. how's that working out for you in the real world? law school? grad school? |
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| (106051) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:32:47 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 12:38:10 2008. For a lot of city residents, young and old, short and long term, the subway, no matter how clean, efficient, and safe it has become since or will become in the future, will always be stuck in their minds as it existed in the 1970's, as that is how it is STILL portrayed in popular culture.Too bad. That's one of the stupidest reasons I have ever heard. And you share it with Forest Glen. You should be really worried. |
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| (106052) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:33:43 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:09:32 2008. R30A can provide it. |
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| (106053) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:35:37 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Jul 10 00:10:15 2008. The Gowanus is in dire need of structural replacement, one way or another. And the feds love to hand out money for multi-modal projects. |
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| (106054) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 10 13:36:10 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:26:31 2008. Charging $12 a ride is not a feasible alternative. However, I'm willing to work out a fair compromise. The MCI D4500's would be replaced with Orion V CNG's and specially made low floor suburbans. Routes below a certain ridership threshold (ie QM22, X20) would be eliminated. Weekend express service would be cut except on the X1,X10,X17,X27,X28,QM1A,QM2,BxM2,and BxM7. The fare would be raised to $6. I think this is a fair compromise. |
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| (106055) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:37:22 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:32:47 2008. Tell you what, go walk into through middle of Afghanistan or Iraq, or some other place that's a war zone. What, you want to find a better way around, that involves less percieved danger? I'm amazed. |
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| (106056) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:38:01 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:33:43 2008. OK, I'l wait for it. |
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| (106057) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:40:42 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:27:08 2008. Equal capacity because it's needed. Before the MCIs were brought in, most x-bus runs were SRO during peak periods. With the addition of the MCIs, there are fewer runs that are SRO; while people may moan about a decrease in the comfort of the ride, they'll riot for lack of a seat. |
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| (106058) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:42:44 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:30:15 2008. The feds support mass transit in general, in the form of capital funds to buy, upgrade, and maintain equipment. I agree that x-bus riders are subsidized more; but I don't believe that number is as dramatically higher as you portray it. |
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| (106059) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:45:31 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Jul 9 23:00:18 2008. Not crowded enough at any one time to have the effect you are expecting. On the other hand, if you prevent those buses from picking up passengers at that location while doing so, you'll get a lynch mob. |
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| (106060) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 10 13:49:21 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 10 13:36:10 2008. I don't think that the politicians would ever let that stuff that happen. |
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| (106062) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 13:55:12 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:31:04 2008. Stop stalking the guy and get a life. Your act here is very tired. |
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| (106063) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 13:57:18 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 00:43:56 2008. They were here before you were born and they will be here after you die. Get used to it. |
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| (106064) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 13:59:15 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:24:11 2008. OOOOHH, is that how you back up one of your "terrapinettes". |
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| (106065) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 14:02:44 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 10 13:33:43 2008. You made the claim you provide the proof. Weasel. Don't go falling back on one of your lackeys AKA-"terrapinettes". |
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| (106066) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu Jul 10 14:17:29 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:09:32 2008. The MCI gets 2.5 MPG on the average MTA route. One should not forget the deadhead fuel requirements. The cost per MTA express trip is around $350-400. |
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| (106067) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu Jul 10 14:25:05 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Thu Jul 10 00:51:15 2008. With what money?Wall Street is downsizing, which is going to result in the redeployment of assets from Downtown to Midtown. This is already affecting the bus service on SI. Then, the tax base shock is going to result in a major hit to the MTA budget next year. |
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| (106070) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 14:50:14 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:09:32 2008. Yes, lots of things!1- Fuel efficiency - Local hybrids are more efficient then express buses 2- Turnover- Most local buses have passengers boarding and alighting all along the route-- EACH of these people pay a fare, there can be hundreds of riders over the course of one trip. Express buses have no turnover. 3- Deadheads- While local buses are in service for a majority of their day, for a great portion of the distance travelled by express buses they are out of service, with no income whatsoever. 4- Express buses generally do not make many trips per day. The resources spent maintaining an express bus making one round trip could be spent on one local bus running all day long. |
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| (106071) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 14:52:01 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 12:39:54 2008. About 2-3 hours to the city. Ferry to cab to LIRR to subway. |
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| (106073) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 15:03:01 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 13:09:32 2008. A quick search finds this:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE6DB143AF931A15755C0A963958260 30% of the cost was covered by fare back in 1995, but back then, the fare was $4 IIRC. Diesel prices have gotten significantly higher since then. I'll look for something more recent. |
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| (106076) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Thehat on Thu Jul 10 15:36:33 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 07:04:41 2008. On my 5:12PM N/B BxM4A I typically carry 40 or more. The RTS suburban carries 39 and Orion 42. The seating capacity w/ reclining leaves the need for a bus w/ more capacity. The BxM11 during rush hour reaches capacity on the MCI. An artic suburban would only carry 60 pax. in the MTA configuration. I drive the MCI, I like it, but I agree it is overkill for this city and length of route/highway time. The Bee-line is going to suburban Orion's over the MCI. |
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| (106079) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jul 10 15:49:07 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 00:09:43 2008. BUT a commuter railroad can take years to build or implement. |
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| (106081) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Thehat on Thu Jul 10 15:52:46 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jul 10 15:49:07 2008. Better late than never. The need is there now and will only get bigger. |
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| (106085) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 16:53:02 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 14:52:01 2008. Every day? |
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| (106086) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 16:54:49 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 14:02:44 2008. I accept that he may not have the information; I specifically asked for a SOURCE. He may repeat a fact (or opinion) he has heard before; I asked for proff, and he has deffered to someone with that proff. Nothing wrong with that in my book. |
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| (106087) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 16:56:23 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by JAzumah on Thu Jul 10 14:17:29 2008. What is that based on, your costs, or MTA numbers? I got the MCI number from Wikipedia initially, and found a few other citations in google that varied from 5-9. |
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| (106088) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 17:03:01 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 14:50:14 2008. 1-Given; likewise, a subway, if one served the area would be more efficient than any bus.2-I can accept this; however for the purposes of my example, I want to use point-to-point operation, as that is typical of peak service. 3-This can be addressed easily if the MTA would address it by parking the buses in the city; for a while they did this, but they stopped for some reason. Local buses also deadhead to/from the ends of their routes. Let's look at this from a single trip POV. 4-If the routes are of the same mileage, you'll spend MORE in the same period of time maintaining a local bus, because it makes more trips. Maintenance is done on a mileage and time schedule, not a trip schedule. |
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| (106089) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 17:06:42 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 15:03:01 2008. 1995 is a bit dated. We need to see that figure broken down, however. And they don't show any comparables, which always makes it hard to judge the figures. Some boros, and routes, are likely better performing than others. |
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| (106090) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 17:08:41 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Thehat on Thu Jul 10 15:36:33 2008. Staten Island service is different, as the highway time is longer in most cases. Queens as well, I would think. |
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| (106101) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 10 18:45:20 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Thu Jul 10 00:30:57 2008. But if you have an imblance of overcrowded buses vs. nearly empty ones then that's why the express buses should be consolodated into designated routes and the SI portions turned into shuttles. |
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| (106102) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 10 18:46:58 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Wed Jul 9 23:45:51 2008. True, then they can get to Manhattan directly and catch the 1/R/W trains there.It'll clear the air along the Gowanus expressway. |
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| (106103) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 10 18:49:12 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by JAzumah on Thu Jul 10 14:25:05 2008. Yup. The MTA should already start cutting routes and at least consolodating some lines. |
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| (106104) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 10 18:50:11 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 10 13:57:18 2008. They might, but the same numbers would have to decrease. The MTA can't keep spending $ on fuel for underused lines. |
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| (106105) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 10 19:08:17 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 10 12:57:46 2008. The local train would've been less crowded and still get to the same point w/in a few seconds after if not before the express arrived. |
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| (106125) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by Thehat on Thu Jul 10 21:08:13 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 17:08:41 2008. Yes, but does it warrant a MCI cruiser? w/ exception of via NW JRSY service. |
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| (106131) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Jul 10 21:42:31 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 00:40:47 2008. The city disagrees with you, however. Fireworks in lower Manhattan there is something they see as more worthy than running the ferry, WHETHER you LIKE IT or NOT!If it came down to only one, why do they keep choosing the fireworks over and over again? |
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| (106132) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Jul 10 21:44:32 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 10 16:53:02 2008. Mr. McMahon is on Fire Island at this time. :-) |
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| (106137) | |
Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu Jul 10 22:25:26 2008, in response to Re: Staten Islanders unsatisfied with MTA bus service, posted by R30A on Thu Jul 10 15:03:01 2008. Staten Island's express routes cover 71% of their cost according to the MTA. |
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